Speculation: Sens, Lebreton, and the NCC part II

[branch]

Omg this is gold

I put it at a 2.5% chance that he actually owns a Ferrari...lmao

If that's the case post proof please.

 

[HSF]

Are you seriously standing up for the pretend rich guy berating the fan base?

maybe stop entertaining him if it bothers you that much?

 

[swiftwin]

Yes, I'm the one who's not realistic.

View attachment 134937

That's the average ticket prices of all the teams in the NHL in 2016/17. There's Ottawa, in last place for all the Canadian teams, and in the bottom 10 of the NHL.

So fans want a better, more experienced management team (more money), a better coaching staff with more experienced coaches (more money), a larger scouting team (more money), more player development personnel (more money), some high-end UFA signings (maybe not every year but certainly the ability to do it, more money), re-signing star players to very expensive contracts with huge signing bonuses in some cases (more money).

And you expect to have all of this without paying a ticket price that is commensurate with that level of spending. You guys want this team to have success like the Bostons and the Washingtons of the league and yet we're trying to do it on a budget that reflects the huge difference in ticket prices.

So yeah, if you want the Senators ($64) to compete with the Bostons ($115) or the Washingtons ($100) you need to increase the cost of tickets and other parts of the experience by at least 50% to create a revenue that justifies the kind of spending that is demanded.

But of course I'm the one not being realistic and drinking the Melnyk Kool-Aid because I don't believe in the "spend A LOT more money and charge the same price" school of economics.

It goes both ways. Why should fans pay more for a sub-par product?

The in-game experience sucks. The arena location sucks. The marketing sucks. The player payroll sucks. They're really lucky that the players themselves didn't suck and generated their own storylines and marketing in 2015 and 2017. But now the team sucks. You get what you pay for. If ownership is not willing to put money into the team, the fans sure as hell won't. We had no problem selling out the building regularly when ownership actually put money into the team circa 2005-2011.

 

[BankStreetParade]

It goes both ways. Why should fans pay more for a sub-par product?

The in-game experience sucks. The arena location sucks. The marketing sucks. The player payroll sucks. They're really lucky that the players themselves didn't suck and generated their own storylines and marketing in 2015 and 2017. But now the team sucks. You get what you pay for. If ownership is not willing to put money into the team, the fans sure as hell won't. We had no problem selling out the building regularly when ownership actually put money into the team circa 2005-2011.

LOL.

"Why should fans pay more for a sub-par product?" It's not about why should the fans pay more, it's pretty simple: Ottawa fans WILL NOT pay more. You think it's a coincidence that Ottawa is in the bottom 10 in the NHL in average ticket prices? You think it's a coincidence that Ottawa fans sell rivalry night tickets against Toronto and Montreal and let their fans pack our arena? They do that to subsidize their season tickets because it's ALWAYS ABOUT MONEY in Ottawa. We can't even fill our arena with our own fans against our most hated rivals...are you f***ing kidding me?

The in-game experience sucks? What does that even mean? I've been to 5 NHL arenas, it's not a huge amount granted, but I've yet to see any in-game experience that I thought was really good. It's all a rehash of the same shitty fan-interaction/kiss cam/quiz for prizes/centre-ice shootouts/timbits skating that you see at CTC.

Arena location? You're going to fault Melnyk for the arena location now?

The marketing sucks? What????

The player payroll sucks? Look at the chart again. Notice anything in particular about Ottawa and all of the teams behind it on that ranking?

Yeah this team has never had a problem selling out a building with one of the cheapest tickets in the NHL. What other revelations do you have for us?

 

[Ray Kinsella]

I never lie. I have been spot on with everything so far. True stories.

Well... anybody who states they “never lie” are actually lying. Unless one is a little baby who doesn’t yet talk, or isn’t old enough to hold conversations, every one person has told at least one lie in their life... and, yes, white lies count.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

LOL.

"Why should fans pay more for a sub-par product?" It's not about why should the fans pay more, it's pretty simple: Ottawa fans WILL NOT pay more. You think it's a coincidence that Ottawa is in the bottom 10 in the NHL in average ticket prices? You think it's a coincidence that Ottawa fans sell rivalry night tickets against Toronto and Montreal and let their fans pack our arena? They do that to subsidize their season tickets because it's ALWAYS ABOUT MONEY in Ottawa. We can't even fill our arena with our own fans against our most hated rivals...are you ****ing kidding me?

The in-game experience sucks? What does that even mean? I've been to 5 NHL arenas, it's not a huge amount granted, but I've yet to see any in-game experience that I thought was really good. It's all a rehash of the same ****ty fan-interaction/kiss cam/quiz for prizes/centre-ice shootouts/timbits skating that you see at CTC.

Arena location? You're going to fault Melnyk for the arena location now?

The marketing sucks? What????

The player payroll sucks? Look at the chart again. Notice anything in particular about Ottawa and all of the teams behind it on that ranking?

Yeah this team has never had a problem selling out a building with one of the cheapest tickets in the NHL. What other revelations do you have for us?

Man.... you’re always screaming.

 

[Masked]

Yes, I'm the one who's not realistic.

View attachment 134937

That's the average ticket prices of all the teams in the NHL in 2016/17. There's Ottawa, in last place for all the Canadian teams, and in the bottom 10 of the NHL.

Where did the chart come from and how did they do the calculations? Vivid Seats seems to be some sort of reseller so I'd like to see better context on the graph since everything in the first 2 bowls is much more expensive than the average price while the third level has the majority of the seats at that price.

 

[Sensung]

Yes, I'm the one who's not realistic.

View attachment 134937

That's the average ticket prices of all the teams in the NHL in 2016/17. There's Ottawa, in last place for all the Canadian teams, and in the bottom 10 of the NHL.

So fans want a better, more experienced management team (more money), a better coaching staff with more experienced coaches (more money), a larger scouting team (more money), more player development personnel (more money), some high-end UFA signings (maybe not every year but certainly the ability to do it, more money), re-signing star players to very expensive contracts with huge signing bonuses in some cases (more money).

And you expect to have all of this without paying a ticket price that is commensurate with that level of spending. You guys want this team to have success like the Bostons and the Washingtons of the league and yet we're trying to do it on a budget that reflects the huge difference in ticket prices.

So yeah, if you want the Senators ($64) to compete with the Bostons ($115) or the Washingtons ($100) you need to increase the cost of tickets and other parts of the experience by at least 50% to create a revenue that justifies the kind of spending that is demanded.

But of course I'm the one not being realistic and drinking the Melnyk Kool-Aid because I don't believe in the "spend A LOT more money and charge the same price" school of economics.

What are Tampa Bay's ticket costs?

What % of the cap do they spend?

Compare the size and scope of the hockey operations department for the two franchises.

Now compare the TV revenues for Ottawa and TB.

You do realize that a $20 increase would see us jump to the top 12, right?

Melnyk's operations in Ottawa make money. Stop perpetuating the lie that the fans are responsible for Melnyk's terrible business practices.

 

[armani]

What are Tampa Bay's ticket costs?

What % of the cap do they spend?

Compare the size and scope of the hockey operations department for the two franchises.

Now compare the TV revenues for Ottawa and TB.

You do realize that a $20 increase would see us jump to the top 12, right?

Melnyk's operations in Ottawa make money. Stop perpetuating the lie that the fans are responsible for Melnyk's terrible business practices.

I am willing to pay a bit more for a better on-ice product. As a diehard fan all I care about is a winning team, everything else is fluff/niceties.

 

[Sensung]

I am willing to pay a bit more for a better on-ice product. As a diehard fan all I care about is a winning team, everything else is fluff/niceties.

Exactly.

The team's revenues have gone up significantly over the past decade and the payroll % of cap has gone down.

Ottawa fans are too informed to fall for Melnyk's shell game.

 

[Deku]

If I end up at a game this season I am going to walk around the concourse with a huge sign that says "mysens is my daddy, notice me senpai"

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I am willing to pay a bit more for a better on-ice product. As a diehard fan all I care about is a winning team, everything else is fluff/niceties.

I've been to a major sporting event in almost every major North American city. Generally, I expect to pay more at a downtown prime location arena and less at stadiums that are in the middle of no where. You're gonna pay 4-5 times more for tickets to a Cubs game vs a white Sox game. Same as Dodgers vs Angels. The only place I've paid premium prices for a ticket that was outside a city center was for Patriots tickets against Drew Brees and the Saints when both teams were undefeated. Teams like the Patriots who win every other year can charge crazy prices.

The only other places you can do that is other NFL games do to the demand with only 8 home games. Philly kind of gets away with it too with most of their teams but even they don't sell out every night for the 76ers and Flyers.

 

[BankStreetParade]

What are Tampa Bay's ticket costs?

What % of the cap do they spend?

Compare the size and scope of the hockey operations department for the two franchises.

Now compare the TV revenues for Ottawa and TB.

You do realize that a $20 increase would see us jump to the top 12, right?

Melnyk's operations in Ottawa make money. Stop perpetuating the lie that the fans are responsible for Melnyk's terrible business practices.

You picked Tampa, shocking. I didn't expect it from you... /s

 

[Mr Hat]

The marketing doesn't suck! We would have to have marketing for it to suck. It's simply non existent.

How people like BSP don't understand that a market like Toronto a relatively short drive away is going to fill our arena is mind boggling. Toronto has such a high demand for ticket sales that thousands of fans who can't afford a decent seat at the Scotiabank Center will come here as their best option. It's not sens fans fault Toronto is so successful causing high demand for fans to watch them that it spills over to their rivals arena next door.

It really is pointless arguing with someone who asks for proof our our marketing issues like it's some outlandish statemen. We have no funding there despite Karlsson being one of the most likeable players in the league. Chabot, Tkachuck should have banners plasted over the city to create excitement. Pretty standads stuff as proven by Tampa.

 

[BatherSeason]

The marketing doesn't suck! We would have to have marketing for it to suck. It's simply non existent.

How people like BSP don't understand that a market like Toronto a relatively short drive away is going to fill our arena is mind boggling. Toronto has such a high demand for ticket sales that thousands of fans who can't afford a decent seat at the Scotiabank Center will come here as their best option. It's not sens fans fault Toronto is so successful causing high demand for fans to watch them that it spills over to their rivals arena next door.

It really is pointless arguing with someone who asks for proof our our marketing issues like it's some outlandish statement we have no funding ther despite Karlsson being one of the most likeable players in the league.

Best marketing this team has done in years wasn't even done by the organization, it was done when Matt Duchene randomly got out of his car to say hello to someone in a Sens hat.

 

[Sensung]

You picked Tampa, shocking. I didn't expect it from you... /s

Ya, why would we want to compare the Sens to one of the best run franchises in the NHL?

Still waiting for an actual response...

If you don't like the TB comparison, feel free to comment on the Sens TV revenues relative to the league and the increase over the last decade, or doesn't that fit your agenda.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Man.... you’re always screaming.

Man, you always have absolutely nothing to add to any conversation on this forum. Why do you even post? Your schtick is old. Just give it up already.

 

[BatherSeason]

Delete

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Exactly.

The team's revenues have gone up significantly over the past decade and the payroll % of cap has gone down.

Ottawa fans are too informed to fall for Melnyk's shell game.

Oh right, you have no idea what you are talking about

 

[BankStreetParade]

Where did the chart come from and how did they do the calculations? Vivid Seats seems to be some sort of reseller so I'd like to see better context on the graph since everything in the first 2 bowls is much more expensive than the average price while the third level has the majority of the seats at that price.

Here's the link I used: 2016-17 NHL Ticket Prices | Vivid Seats

Here's other links as well:

This blog tracks resale values of teams and has Ottawa as the second lowest Canadian team ($135) just ahead of Vancouver ($130) with the next closest Canadian teams being Winnipeg, Montreal and Calgary ($170).

NHL Average Ticket Prices By Team

Here's something from CBSsports that says it used TickPick's resale numbers and Ottawa was third last in the league at $54 ahead of Florida $53 and Calgary $43.

It also says:

A little over half the teams in the league, per TickPick's data, average ticket prices of more than $100, with 16 clubs eclipsing that mark.

Canadiens tickets are most expensive in NHL; Vegas outselling other 30 teams

Here's BarDown's rankings (not sure what year though):

https://www.bardown.com/ranking-the...ian-nhl-teams-from-highest-to-lowest-1.669444

They have Ottawa dead last for all Canadian teams and are using Forbes numbers for average ticket prices.

Here's Business Insider with a ranking from 2014 that includes an average ticket, one small beer, one soda, one hot dog and half a parking as well. Their average team on the index is at $87.80 while Ottawa, by far the cheapest of the Canadian teams, is at $69.54.

The Toronto Maple Leafs Are Still The Most Expensive NHL Team To Go See In Person

 

[BankStreetParade]

The marketing doesn't suck! We would have to have marketing for it to suck. It's simply non existent.

How people like BSP don't understand that a market like Toronto a relatively short drive away is going to fill our arena is mind boggling. Toronto has such a high demand for ticket sales that thousands of fans who can't afford a decent seat at the Scotiabank Center will come here as their best option. It's not sens fans fault Toronto is so successful causing high demand for fans to watch them that it spills over to their rivals arena next door.

It really is pointless arguing with someone who asks for proof our our marketing issues like it's some outlandish statemen. We have no funding there despite Karlsson being one of the most likeable players in the league. Chabot, Tkachuck should have banners plasted over the city to create excitement. Pretty standads stuff as proven by Tampa.

Who do they buy the tickets from? Season seat holders who are only too happy to subsidize part of their season ticket packages by selling those tickets for a premium. Literally selling out our arena to our biggest rivals for some cash in their pocket. And you guys pretend like it's not about the money for fans. It's the only thing it's about for those fans.

 

[BatherSeason]

Here's Business Insider with a ranking from 2014 that includes an average ticket, one small beer, one soda, one hot dog and half a parking as well. Their average team on the index is at $87.80 while Ottawa, by far the cheapest of the Canadian teams, is at $69.54.

The Toronto Maple Leafs Are Still The Most Expensive NHL Team To Go See In Person

Hmmm, interesting, wasn't it the 2013-2014 season where Melnyk low-balled Alfie forcing him to sign with Detroit and began the demise of Eugene Melnyk in the eyes of Ottawa Senators fans??

This was also around the time when the off-ice in game experience took a nosedive as well.

What do the numbers look like pre-2013-2014?

 

[stempniaksen]

Every other Canadian team has an arena downtown, it's no wonder they charge more at this point. It's not going to be a surprise when the Senators move to Lebreton and the tickets prices jump significantly.

We're in a bit of a chicken and the egg situation with ownership and spending. If you want to argue that Senators fans need to pay up so Melnyk will increase spending that's fine, but there's also no incentive for the fan base to pay top dollar for the team as currently constructed (bare bones front office, bottom half of the league in on-ice spending), terrible season last year with no signs of improvement.

At the end of the day I think the onus is on the business to attract the customer, not the other way around. As a fan, if I felt like my money was going toward improving the team I would be glad to spend a little extra. Unfortunately (whether this is true or not) I feel like any extra money spent will go towards Eugene paying off the debt load and that's something I'm just not interested (pun intended) in doing.

 

[Silencio]

LOL.
We can't even fill our arena with our own fans against our most hated rivals...are you ****ing kidding me?

The in-game experience sucks? What does that even mean? I've been to 5 NHL arenas, it's not a huge amount granted, but I've yet to see any in-game experience that I thought was really good. It's all a rehash of the same ****ty fan-interaction/kiss cam/quiz for prizes/centre-ice shootouts/timbits skating that you see at CTC.

The stands at Leafs-Habs games at the ACC are always filled with Montreal sweaters (and vice versa). When the Leafs and Habs play home games against non hated rivals 99% of the fan jerseys are those of the home team ...just like they are in Ottawa.

I agree with your point about the Ottawa in-game experience being no different/worse than any other NHL arena. For rinks like Nashville that are known for their atmosphere, it's the fans who are responsible for that and not because their t-shirt cannons are better than ours or whatever.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

Man, you always have absolutely nothing to add to any conversation on this forum. Why do you even post? Your schtick is old. Just give it up already.

I understand.