Post-Game Talk: Sens @ Leafs/ Leafs @ Sens

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I don't like Grant at all as puck distributor. He looks really good sometimes with his puck control, reach, skating, but
1-He's not a goal scorer, doesn't go to the dirty areas and isn't a sniper
2-Not a good puck distributor/playmaker. Lacks hockey sense in his decision making with the puck.

Could he be a 4th liner maybe right now or at some point in his career? Yeah but there are better players than him

I guess he's fine positionally defensively and has an intriguing package but overall doesn't seem to get things done

I unno if you're being serious in this post...

Grant has spectacular hockey sense. He reads the play marvellously which makes him so damn good defensively and on ye PK. He also is very good at carrying the puck into opposing zone. He is great along the boards and he can finish well for bottom 6er. He didn't lead ahl in shg due to luck.

I do agree there are better players than him but he is very close to NHL ready. If he improves a bit more offensively he'll have great 3rd line ceiling.

 

[Sensinitis]

Hoffman looked great and extremely dangerous, I agree with the rest though.

Grant was veryyy good in his role. Excellent puck possession on the boards and good stick handling.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I want to see pageau on the wing just once, if it doesnt work, I will never wonder again..

 

[Benjamin]

Big of Grant on the 4th line. Plays such a smart game and simple game. Last season he got better offensively by the game.

 

[WhiteLight*]

I unno if you're being serious in this post...

Grant has spectacular hockey sense. He reads the play marvellously which makes him so damn good defensively and on ye PK. He also is very good at carrying the puck into opposing zone. He is great along the boards and he can finish well for bottom 6er. He didn't lead ahl in shg due to luck.

I do agree there are better players than him but he is very close to NHL ready. If he improves a bit more offensively he'll have great 3rd line ceiling.

Oh I have no issues with his defensive hockey sense. It's good and that might ultimately get him a job in this league.

That said, he has a lot of nice tools (skating, puck skills, size) like you're pointing out. But he's bad offensively. He's not a sniper, not a garbage goal getter. He's a perimeter and board player with little vision and little idea of what to do in the offensive zone.

Might he still have a career? Maybe, but he shouldn't be getting a spot ahead Pageau and many other people on this roster.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Well that's where we disagree I think Stone was fantastic, he slowed the play down multiple times and got control. He created space, time and chances for his linemates. Where the puck was he was more than any forward on the team.

Stone will be playing in the top 9 and at times the top 6. I don't think moving Pageau moving to RW isn't out of the question either.

Obviously we saw things differently.

While Stone was great at stripping the puck, he didn't shine at anything else last night IMO.

While being able to strip the puck is a useful skill, the reason is he has learned that skill is because he is often late to retrieve the puck in the first place.

I admit it is amazing to watch him strip the puck, specially since he generally is behind the puck carrier and never seems to get penalized, but that isn't enough for him to get into the top six this year.

Fact is Stone is a playmaking winger that has to produce scoring opportunities for his linemates and I didn't see much of that last night.

 

[Cosmix]

I don't agree with Neal being a lock but he is. Stone and Chiasson are locks because they are obviously better. Do you think Condra brings more to the table? Honestly?

Neil has a one way contract with two years left including this next season. I suppose that makes him a lock to make the team. I do not think he will be traded nor sent down to Bingo.

 

[Cosmix]

Obviously we saw things differently.

While Stone was great at stripping the puck, he didn't shine at anything else last night IMO.

While being able to strip the puck is a useful skill, the reason is he has learned that skill is because he is often late to retrieve the puck in the first place.

I admit it is amazing to watch him strip the puck, specially since he generally is behind the puck carrier and never seems to get penalized, but that isn't enough for him to get into the top six this year.

Fact is Stone is a playmaking winger that has to produce scoring opportunities for his linemates and I didn't see much of that last night.

I see it almost the same way as you did. He was not "fantastic". If he was "fantastic" he would have to score 2 or more goals and get an assist or two. He also was not "unbelievable" nor "awesome" or any of the other high falutin words some people choose to over use these days!

 

[Cosmix]

Obviously we saw things differently.

While Stone was great at stripping the puck, he didn't shine at anything else last night IMO.

While being able to strip the puck is a useful skill, the reason is he has learned that skill is because he is often late to retrieve the puck in the first place.

I admit it is amazing to watch him strip the puck, specially since he generally is behind the puck carrier and never seems to get penalized, but that isn't enough for him to get into the top six this year.

Fact is Stone is a playmaking winger that has to produce scoring opportunities for his linemates and I didn't see much of that last night.

Other teams score goals too, it was simply a great shot from Reily coming in unmolested on the opposite side of where Greening was & made a great shot to beat Anderson. If it was Karlsson who scored that goal people on here would be boasting at how great a shot it was & that the goalie didn't have a chance on it. I guess you see what you see but the GSN line gets way more abuse than they deserve on here while other players get all the love. I think the coach loves these three & IMO will continue to play them full time for Ottawa.

I noticed Karlsson give the puck away a few times, pinch & get caught twice & make some bad plays. I also notice how he skates circles around guys & while taking a lot of risks he is so good & so fast he can get away with it & correct it or the mistake doesn't always end up in the back of our net but he still makes a lot of defensive mistakes. Wasn't he on the ice for that 2nd Toronto goal? Of course, no one here dares to criticize Eric the great.

On Reily's goal Neil got caught in the center of the ice and did not get over fast enough to get in Reily's way, thus allowing Reily to get to the top of the face off circle and take a shot unmolested. It was either poor positioning or slowness that gave Reily the opening.

 

[GimmeMyJetpack]

I want to see pageau on the wing just once, if it doesnt work, I will never wonder again..

This. Why force him down without giving him a shot on the wing. Give him a chance to beat out Hoffman for that LW spot.

 

[Back in Black]

I want to see pageau on the wing just once, if it doesnt work, I will never wonder again..

Brings excitement to the game, but he'll get ground down over a full season, and will disappear in the Playoffs like he did against the Pens.

Sure he looked good against the tiny Habs, but even they have gotten bigger since we spanked them in Round 1.

There a very,very, very, very few who can pull off a Marty St.Louis, especially in the endurance department, and I could be wrong, but I doubt he's the man for the job.

But on a Team that is building, he's getting a shot.

On Reily's goal Neil got caught in the center of the ice and did not get over fast enough to get in Reily's way, thus allowing Reily to get to the top of the face off circle and take a shot unmolested. It was either poor positioning or slowness that gave Reily the opening.

Even happens to the best of them......

 

[Holdurbreathe]

On Reily's goal Neil got caught in the center of the ice and did not get over fast enough to get in Reily's way, thus allowing Reily to get to the top of the face off circle and take a shot unmolested. It was either poor positioning or slowness that gave Reily the opening.

That goal reminded me of how the Sens defended last year, all five guys below the circles leaving the D wide open to contain and shoot.

There is no reasonable explanation for Neil and Greeening's positioning on that play, basically in no man's land being useful to no one.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Even happens to the best of them......

Wouldn't be so critical if it was a rare mistake, but it wasn't.

Neil drops too deep in the D Zone on a regular basis and gets himself out of position, that play last night just reminded me of his play last season.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

This. Why force him down without giving him a shot on the wing. Give him a chance to beat out Hoffman for that LW spot.

It isn't typical that small skilled centers are shifted to the wing, usually the other way around.

Playing center allows Pageau more freedom, putting him on the wing where he is always on the wall could potentially end his hopes for an NHL career.

As much as I enjoy watching Pageau's speed and determination, he isn't a natural goal scorer so moving him to the wing doesn't help the team or JGP.

As a matter of fact a shift to the wing probably sets him back on the depth chart behind players like Lazar, Puempel, Stone and Hoffman.

IMO Pageau just has to play well enough to force the Sens to move Smith and/or Lazar to the wing.

My suggestion is to wait until the teams are closer to their NHL rosters before passing judgement on JGP readiness, or any of the prospects for that matter.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Brings excitement to the game, but he'll get ground down over a full season, and will disappear in the Playoffs like he did against the Pens.

Sure he looked good against the tiny Habs, but even they have gotten bigger since we spanked them in Round 1.

There a very,very, very, very few who can pull off a Marty St.Louis, especially in the endurance department, and I could be wrong, but I doubt he's the man for the job.

But on a Team that is building, he's getting a shot.



Even happens to the best of them......

Wait, did you say Pageau disappeared against the Pens?

What? Greening-Pageau-Condra was our best line that series. Pageau arguably our best player as well.

He outplayed Crosby at times head to head. He scored a goal, he was everywhere. He made terrific play that lead to Greening goal in OT game 3.

Pageau was one of our few bright spots against the Pens.

 

[GimmeMyJetpack]

It isn't typical that small skilled centers are shifted to the wing, usually the other way around.

Playing center allows Pageau more freedom, putting him on the wing where he is always on the wall could potentially end his hopes for an NHL career.

As much as I enjoy watching Pageau's speed and determination, he isn't a natural goal scorer so moving him to the wing doesn't help the team or JGP.

As a matter of fact a shift to the wing probably sets him back on the depth chart behind players like Lazar, Puempel, Stone and Hoffman.

IMO Pageau just has to play well enough to force the Sens to move Smith and/or Lazar to the wing.

My suggestion is to wait until the teams are closer to their NHL rosters before passing judgement on JGP readiness, or any of the prospects for that matter.

Sure of all this is possible...but it's just as a likely that he flourishes on the wing. Just because it didn't work with some players doesn't mean it will for Pageau. Look at Gallagher, Marchand (yes marchand is only 5'9 185), Hudler, Gionta, Cammalleri, Gerbe, Ennis, Sullivan maybe even conacher. Until they try him at the wing we will never know. Even if he does well enough to move smith to the wing he's still going to be playing 4th line minutes with plugs. All I'm saying is guys like Hoffman and Stone they get top 6 shots, they get PP time, give him a shot like that and see what he can do.

 

[King Karlsson]

I thought the entire group looked energetic and eager to play. I just felt optimistic watching both games. Even in the ACC game, down 3-1 I still felt good about what I was watching.

Players that stood out at CTC:

1. Turris line was excellent against average players, but dogged players trying to win jobs.
2. Ryan skated very well
3. Erik Karlsson is pretty good
4. Legwand looked like a vet with nothing to prove. Thought he could have shown more but he is a vet probably trying not to pull anything?
5. Lazar won a lot of pucks, shot the puck well while playing with AHLers. I just smile when I watch him play because...he is always smiling. They say it is contagious!
6. Peumpel looked good, wasn't amazing but getting that goal out of the way may do wonders as he sticks around
7. Solid AHL acquisition in Cullen. Claesson skates weird but looked reasonably composed.
8. Boro was solid with some hits.
9. Buddy is getting better and could be a diamond in the rough
10. Derek Grant played really well, nice skater
11. Andy looked good.

ACC:

1. Michalek skated really well.
2. Chiasson looked really athletic and skilled
3. Zbad was just okay
4. Pageau was in Briere mode (Buffalo Briere that is)
5. Cowen looks set to play much better this year
6. Ceci is looking confident
7. I like Dzingel and his skill set, may push Hoffman out of Ottawa
8. Still not sure where Hoffman ends up

Happy to see hockey!

I think the writing is on the wall for Condra, Hoffman, Dzyurzinski and either Wiercoch or Gryba will not be a Senator...just too many players coming up

Karl seemed to be drifting a lot, but that's ok because he's Karl and we know his true abilities

 

[GimmeMyJetpack]

Wait, did you say Pageau disappeared against the Pens?

What? Greening-Pageau-Condra was our best line that series. Pageau arguably our best player as well.

He outplayed Crosby at times head to head. He scored a goal, he was everywhere. He made terrific play that lead to Greening goal in OT game 3.

Pageau was one of our few bright spots against the Pens.

Pageau really owned Orpik on that goal.

 

[Cosmix]

The funniest part of this thread is how disparate the opinions are on the same players.

Some say Stone was good, while others say he was plain awful. Some say Cowen was fast while others say he looked slow. Same goes for Zibby and a few others.

Just goes to show you how people see things from different POVs/biases, and the lesson here is that we need to watch a few more games before making snap judgments of any kind.

So, before making "snap judgements" we must wait and see several games?

I don't think they qualify for "snap judgements" at that point.

I do get your point though, i think. I think you're saying don't make snap judgements based on a single game or a couple of games.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Pageau really owned Orpik on that goal.

That entire shift he was amazing. What composure and ethic.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Let's note that I somewhat dislike Colin Greening and want him gone (with Condra and Gryba)



No, no and no

Greening maintained his pace for 2.5 years with or without Spezza before getting his extension... This was not a knee jerk reaction

I'm always baffled by those comments coming from fans who are supposed to follow this team closely. Fun fact is I probably hate Greening more than them, but won't let bias come in in my way.

Are you looking at something that I am not? 2.5 year pace?

He played one season in the NHL prior to his year with Spezza and his numbers were average at best and I don't care about "projected" points either. I guess its legitimately ok to award overpaid contracts based on one NHL year playing on the top line with an elite centre and 1 average AHL season.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Brings excitement to the game, but he'll get ground down over a full season, and will disappear in the Playoffs like he did against the Pens.

Sure he looked good against the tiny Habs, but even they have gotten bigger since we spanked them in Round 1.

There a very,very, very, very few who can pull off a Marty St.Louis, especially in the endurance department, and I could be wrong, but I doubt he's the man for the job.

But on a Team that is building, he's getting a shot.

Can say the exact same things about Turris.

Until Pageau gets a full season in the NHL, we'll never know.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I'm definitely on board with playing Pageau on the wing. His speed would be a huge asset there and he has no fear of going to the net and turns over pucks on the fore check. His skills would not be wasted there like other small players. I'd gladly give Condra's spot to him and I like Condra as a fourth line utility player.

 

[dumbdick]

Interesting fact: Our top six in the TO game combined make only $1M more than Phil Kessel.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Interesting fact: Our top six in the TO game combined make only $1M more than Phil Kessel.

Budget team ftw!