Post-Game Talk: SENS in Carolina, Wednesday night 7PM

[Dionysus]

That first line still had a lot of opportunities . It doesn't matter who the Stutzle line faces. But hat first line played like shit. Cheated. Half assed their assignments. If your best players aren't your best players, then this team will have a wonderful 82 point season

The powerplay was atrocious. 0-4 with a shorty against. The top guys definitely need to play better. I'm sure they will, but need that consistency to not lose games with mistakes, and find a way to pull out some wins with a big play.

 

[swiftwin]

I acknowledged the Hurricanes are a good team. They’re a measuring stick game for sure.

Where in this conversation have you considered flaws in the sens 50%? What stake have you identified in the sens performance? You entered the conversation entirely focussed on Carolina.

I am considering it. I'm asking you to consider the other 50%

Improvement is in theory part of the process, if your process is good.

I’m not convinced our process is good. It’s just one game, and it’s against a great team, but in the 5th year of DJ’s program, after an offseason of hype and more development and maturity from our players, I was hoping more of the « fixables » (like dumb penalties) would be ironed out right off the bat.

Every team takes dumb penalties. Canes did it too.

How is that a straw man?

They started out great yesterday, that has been an issue in the past. Nice to see.

They also did have a bad second period before mounting a comeback and ultimately falling apart.

Maybe fans and media say things repeatedly because they happen repeatedly.

Because you're accusing me of only focusing on one part of the game, when my point had nothing to do with focusing on any part of the game. I was just pointing out how fan perceptions and confirmation biases work. I'm not arguing anything about the team's performance yesterday.

I didn’t say they were bad every period. They had a lot of good moments and overall hung in there with s cup favourite. There were many encouraging signs.

I’m holding space for those encouraging signs at the same time as acknowledging the disappointing ones. Both can coexist.

We just don’t see fandom and team evaluation the same way. That’s fine, board would be very boring otherwise.

I never said you said they were bad every period. I'm just pointing out confirmation biases. The next time the Sens have a poor start (which will happen at some point), I guarantee you there will be comments along the lines of "Why can't they ever start the game on time. DJ is a terrible coach who is always unprepared to start the game", while completely glossing over this game and every other game where he have a hot start.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Canes scored 5.
1. PP goal , lost coverage in front of the net; Its a PK and it will happen vs teams with quality PP
2. Defensive breakdown in more than one place ; on the puck Necas, Kelly, and lost Terivainen Kastelic
3. Defensive breakdown ; 2 Giveaways; Chabot, Stutzle; Chabot went fishing on Staal
4. Giveaway at the blueline; Stutzle slow moving it; Korpi was bad on the shot high blocker
5. Short handed goal was a Defensive breakdown; just poorly defended and another high blocker

 

[LiseL]

I don't know man. I think we should give DJ 20 more games.

If their 20 game record is the same as last year's first 20 games, it'll be too late, another wasted year. DJ wants them to play an up-tempo, puck possession game but if we don't win face-offs, that isn't possible. Good coaches make adjustments when the situation calls for it. DJ doesn't. He just leans on the a few guys to try to get them going or out of trouble.

When Gustavsson was traded to Minnesota and lit it up, his comments about Ottawa were very telling. He's a great goaltender when playing on a team with a defensive structure. Either that's not in DJ's wheelhouse or he's not a believer. I don't blame the goalies. They have to stand on their heads almost every night to compensate for bad defensive coverage which sometimes ends up in soft goals.

Remember the early days for the Sens in the 90's. They were terrible even though they had some talented players. It wasn't until they hired Jacques Martin they began having success. That's all we're missing, that type of coaching. Even when Norris and Pinto return and they have more puck possession time, they still won't be able to beat good teams with a solid defensive structure on a consistent basis.

I also don't understand why they always come out flat in the 2nd period, especially if they have a lead. Maybe their ability to sometimes come back in the 3rd period has gone to their heads.

I hope to see a better effort on Saturday.

 

[Bileur]

I am considering it. I'm asking you to consider the other 50%



Every team takes dumb penalties. Canes did it too.



Because you're accusing me of only focusing on one part of the game, when my point had nothing to do with focusing on any part of the game. I was just pointing out how fan perceptions and confirmation biases work. I'm not arguing anything about the team's performance yesterday.

Because you're accusing me of only focusing on one part of the game, when my point had nothing to do with focusing on any part of the game. I was just pointing out how fan perceptions and confirmation biases work. I'm not arguing anything about the team's performance yesterday.

Downplaying mistakes as « fan perceptions » and « confirmation bias », or falling into whataboutism deflecting attention onto the other team when responding to a conversation about team performance is an indirect comment about team performance.

It’s directly questioning the accuracy or validity of an opinion about the team’s poor performance in the aspects raised in the post.

I never said you said they were bad every period. I'm just pointing out confirmation biases. The next time the Sens have a poor start (which will happen at some point), I guarantee you there will be comments along the lines of "Why can't they ever start the game on time. DJ is a terrible coach who is always unprepared to start the game", while completely glossing over this game and every other game where he have a hot start.

Do you not see how in this whole exchange you’re glossing over issues such as the poor second period and lack of discipline?

 

[LiseL]

Carolina's dzone coverage on the penalty kill is significantly better than ours 5on5. Everyone knows just where to be.

Imagine that? So that's what a defense structure looks like lol. DJ, start taking notes.

For one season only, then everything turns to shit.

I'd rather have Jacques Martin back.

 

[Bileur]

Imagine that? So that's what a defense structure looks like lol. DJ, start taking notes.


I'd rather have Jacques Martin back.

I’ve definitely got some Martin nostalgia but I’d rather Julien. Good structure but more toughness.

 

[LiseL]

I’ve definitely got some Martin nostalgia but I’d rather Julien. Good structure but more toughness.

I agree, I was just saying which former Sens coach I would prefer (Martin over Boucher).

 

[swiftwin]

Downplaying mistakes as « fan perceptions » and « confirmation bias », or falling into whataboutism deflecting attention onto the other team when responding to a conversation about team performance is an indirect comment about team performance.

It’s directly questioning the accuracy or validity of an opinion about the team’s poor performance in the aspects raised in the post.



Do you not see how in this whole exchange you’re glossing over issues such as the poor second period and lack of discipline?

There's a difference between mistakes and trends. You can't claim that being bad in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd periods is a trend. That's literally the opposite of a trend. Yes, the Sens played poorly in the 2nd period. Is it a trend? No.

 

[SensFactor]

Kastelic didn't look good in training camp either

 

[PatrickEaves]

If their 20 game record is the same as last year's first 20 games, it'll be too late, another wasted year. DJ wants them to play an up-tempo, puck possession game but if we don't win face-offs, that isn't possible. Good coaches make adjustments when the situation calls for it. DJ doesn't. He just leans on the a few guys to try to get them going or out of trouble.

When Gustavsson was traded to Minnesota and lit it up, his comments about Ottawa were very telling. He's a great goaltender when playing on a team with a defensive structure. Either that's not in DJ's wheelhouse or he's not a believer. I don't blame the goalies. They have to stand on their heads almost every night to compensate for bad defensive coverage which sometimes ends up in soft goals.

Remember the early days for the Sens in the 90's. They were terrible even though they had some talented players. It wasn't until they hired Jacques Martin they began having success. That's all we're missing, that type of coaching. Even when Norris and Pinto return and they have more puck possession time, they still won't be able to beat good teams with a solid defensive structure on a consistent basis.

I also don't understand why they always come out flat in the 2nd period, especially if they have a lead. Maybe their ability to sometimes come back in the 3rd period has gone to their heads.

I hope to see a better effort on Saturday.

the joke
your head

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

There's a difference between mistakes and trends. You can't claim that being bad in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd periods is a trend. That's literally the opposite of a trend. Yes, the Sens played poorly in the 2nd period. Is it a trend? No.

If my memory serves me correctly last year 2nd periods were notoriously bad for this team.

 

[DrEasy]

I have trouble blaming Stutzle too much for that giveaway that led to... was it the 4th goal? I mean the dude just scored a goal all on his own, and it's easy for him to feel like he has to do everything alone to make things happen. Well, sometimes this leads to costly turnovers.

 

[OD99]

I have trouble blaming Stutzle too much for that giveaway that led to... was it the 4th goal? I mean the dude just scored a goal all on his own, and it's easy for him to feel like he has to do everything alone to make things happen. Well, sometimes this leads to costly turnovers.

I don't know, he should be capable of scoring the big goal and being smart with the puck.

It was a great effort to strip him but at some point we need overall accountability. He felt the pressure, he should have made sure he got the puck out of the zone.

Live to fight another day.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I have trouble blaming Stutzle too much for that giveaway that led to... was it the 4th goal? I mean the dude just scored a goal all on his own, and it's easy for him to feel like he has to do everything alone to make things happen. Well, sometimes this leads to costly turnovers.

I don't know, he should be capable of scoring the big goal and being smart with the puck.

It was a great effort to strip him but at some point we need overall accountability. He felt the pressure, he should have made sure he got the puck out of the zone.

Live to fight another day.

Strictly a coaching/systems issue.

If he knows in certain areas he must move it quickly, this wouldn't be an issue. He tries to dangle it in his own zone and then reviews the ipad for a long time to see how he could have done it better. A simple dap from DJ saying "next time release it to this side of the pressure" and poof, no more burden on Stutzle for needing to be superman.

 

[bert]

.

I don't know, he should be capable of scoring the big goal and being smart with the puck.

It was a great effort to strip him but at some point we need overall accountability. He felt the pressure, he should have made sure he got the puck out of the zone.

Live to fight another day.

Inexcusable give away by Stutzle.

The sens managed the puck horribly at the blue lines. Simply can't have those turnovers in those parts of the ice. Fans will blame DJ 'system this system that'. But these players know, no coach accepts those mistakes in those areas. Maybe it's an accountability thing I dunno. But in the first period the sens were making the right plays in those crucial spots on the ice.

 

[bert]

On his own, without significant pressure, did he f*** that play up and it was in our net seconds later? Am I mistaken on what I saw?

I'm very aware of what he's capable of doing. Like yourself I've watched him since his WJC days.

But he also did what he did and it led directly to a goal against. And there was no reason for that to have happened. And it can't happen. It just can't. If that's a 875k rookie on an ELC it's "take a seat son". It just can't keep happening....but it does.

Every single d man outside of Zub had a horrible moment, moments or shifts last night. But to you it's always Chabot.

Chyrchrun had an inexcusable give away at the opponents blue line that caused an odd man rush in which Carolina eventually scored on sustained zone time.

Sanderson was caught sleeping on the 5th goal. Never should a player just go un checked in the o zone like that. He let Slavin float in undisturbed.

Brannstom got absolutely eaten alive by Carolinas forcheck and cycle. How many times was he outmuscled down low? I saw him tossed around multiple times. This is what it's going to he like in the playoffs and that's why small d men aren't playing prominent roles on teams that go deep.

Ottawa played a real good team Wednesday all the d men struggled mightily at times. But it's only ever Chabot that draws your ire

 

[Cskavars]

Who was Tarasenko playing with on the Blues?

For the most part, Robert Thomas, Pavel Buchnevich and Ivan Barbashev. were his most common linemates

 

[Big Muddy]

There's a difference between mistakes and trends. You can't claim that being bad in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd periods is a trend. That's literally the opposite of a trend. Yes, the Sens played poorly in the 2nd period. Is it a trend? No.

The Senators played well in the first 10 - 11 (maybe 12) in the first period, but the Canes pretty much took over the game from there and played much better. Yes, we had small stretches of better play later in the game and managed to tie it up at one point, but it was very evident which team held the advantage and which team was better that night. Maybe you're trying to make some finer points but given a history of sugar coating things, it just becomes noise in the end.

 

[Tundraman]

Kastelic didn't look good in training camp either

Kastelic is reminding me of Smith in his decline. Lots of push after the whistle but he looks behind the play. Kastelic is just getting started he needs to be visible every shift and show that he wants to move up from the 4th line instead of risking his job.

 

[aragorn]

Kastelic didn't look good in training camp either

He's been great in the faceoff circle including during training camp.

 

[JD1]

Every single d man outside of Zub had a horrible moment, moments or shifts last night. But to you it's always Chabot.

Chyrchrun had an inexcusable give away at the opponents blue line that caused an odd man rush in which Carolina eventually scored on sustained zone time.

Sanderson was caught sleeping on the 5th goal. Never should a player just go un checked in the o zone like that. He let Slavin float in undisturbed.

Brannstom got absolutely eaten alive by Carolinas forcheck and cycle. How many times was he outmuscled down low? I saw him tossed around multiple times. This is what it's going to he like in the playoffs and that's why small d men aren't playing prominent roles on teams that go deep.

Ottawa played a real good team Wednesday all the d men struggled mightily at times. But it's only ever Chabot that draws your ire

Hockey is a 60 game where you are trying to impose your will on your opponent. But there's an ebb and flow. Sometimes they're imposing their will on you.

The Chabot play was Chabot brain farting and there being an immediate goal. It wasn't Carolina imposing their will. Winning a forecheck. Or executing a cycle. He just f***ed up. The end. And it can't even be blamed on being tired.


If you go back to my initial post post, I noted Stuetzle f***ing up too. These guys are our stars. They both did something they shouldn't have done and it immediately cost us. What does DJ call it? Managing the puck.

 

[bert]

Hockey is a 60 game where you are trying to impose your will on your opponent. But there's an ebb and flow. Sometimes they're imposing their will on you.

The Chabot play was Chabot brain farting and there being an immediate goal. It wasn't Carolina imposing their will. Winning a forecheck. Or executing a cycle. He just f***ed up. The end. And it can't even be blamed on being tired.


If you go back to my initial post post, I noted Stuetzle f***ing up too. These guys are our stars. They both did something they shouldn't have done and it immediately cost us. What does DJ call it? Managing the puck.

Still unable to see anyone else but Chabot my man. While neither scenario is ideal It's better to have a mental mistake then simply being unable to physically compete.

 

[JD1]

Still unable to see anyone else but Chabot my man. While neither scenario is ideal It's better to have a mental mistake then simply being unable to physically compete.

Still not able to see Chabot.

Step up to the plate. Say it with me "Chabot completely f***ed up a play that cost us a goal"

 

[bert]

Still not able to see Chabot.

Step up to the plate. Say it with me "Chabot completely f***ed up a play that cost us a goal"

Yeah so did Sanderson, so did Chyrchrun that game. Brannstrom got completely run over in the O zone with their heavy forcheck and cycle. All 4 of them had brutal moments in that game. But you are only pointing out one player.