Post-Game Talk: Sens def. Canucks - 2-1 (Juolevi)

[Johnny Canucker]

Not a great game. Not a lot of positives to be honest beyond a decent game by Holtby. Team just can’t consistently generate chances 5-on-5. Scoring chance share at even tonight was 70% for the Sens.

For the year the Canucks are at 44.05 %....dead last (naturalstattrick.com). High danger they are 6th last.

Arent we the worst 5 on 5 team over the last decade?

 

[Johnny Canucker]

This team is in so much trouble.
The young core is good. Really good.
We have a couple good vets too.

However, all of the supporting cast is garbage and management is to blame. This young core is saddled with useless players.
Let's be real here.
Virtanen, Roussel, Beagle, Sutter.
I wouldnt take them for 1.5 million each... but we're paying them combined like $12- $13 million...

We're outshot, out chanced, outhit most of the time.
Petey, Boeser, Horvat, Hoglander, Jt. Miller, Juolevi, Hughes, Demko, Podkolzin
I believe in this core ^
I don't even mind Myers.. he's over-paid but he's improved this year no doubt and if he was my number 4 guy i can live with that, especially if this young core wasn't saddled with useless secondary options.
I hate the Pearson contract but again, i can live with it.... he works well with Horvat but i'd like it alot more if we could afford to get Horvat a more legit top6 option. Hoglander is great but he's young and cant drive a line with Horvat.

Guys, you know what the scary thing is... like really terrifying...
Once Baertschi, Ferland, Roussel, Beagle, Sutter, Holtby, Virtanen are gone... looong gone.... you just know that they're going to take whatever CAP is left over after resigning the young-studs and sign a new slew of useless roussel / beagle / sutter type players. It's inevitable.

The next wave of crap signings...my predictions are:
Cody Eakin 4 years at 3.5 million
Mikael Granlund 3 years at 4.8 million
Travis Zajac 2 years at 4 million
Braydon Corburn 1 year at 3.5 million

anyone have any predictions? lol

You are over rating our young guys

QH43 is one of the worst defensive defensmen in the entire league.
EP40 is hurt every year
BH53 has games he can produce or be ice cold. Very inconsistent
TD35 has been good, but small sample size, less than 65 NHL games.


That is it. not great at all actually.

 

[Get North]

Canucks need a man like this beside Horvat/Miller.

 

[Grulemieux]

Missed tha game but seems a key factor to the loss was giving up that 2nd goal to Ottawa. Shouldnt have done that

key factor was an atrocious second period

 

[Bankerguy]

Kyle Palmieri 5 x 5 after a long playoff run with the Islanders

Yeah, that screams Canucks.

 

[Samzilla]

Benning’s Canucks yall.
Hope you’re ready for 4 more years of this BS

#TrustThe9YearPlan

 

[mossey3535]

Arent we the worst 5 on 5 team over the last decade?

Don't worry, we can turn it around if we give Benning another two years....

 

[mossey3535]

Could also have devised a fresher lineup. They are going to burn these guys out before half of the games they had left after COVID are played. Green has fresh legs but he won't trust them and instead will write his own obit.

Only thing is, this was happening before covid....no use of the taxi squad at all practically.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Canucks need a man like this beside Horvat/Miller.

Sure a 6'2"/209 lb guy takes on a 5'11"/181 lb guy who is 2 COVID shortened seasons out of NCAA Boston College where fighting is not allowed and tunes the guy up. Fitzgerald has played 50 AHL hockey games and spent 64 minutes in the penalty box which is 32 2-min penalties. that's like 1 2-min penalty in each of 2/3 of the games he's played. How much fighting do you think this kid has done?

For that matter how much do, you think Jonah has done?
43 GP/32 PIM = 16 2-min penalties - c.1 penalty every 3 games
38 GP/32 PIM = 16 2-min penalties - about 1 2-min every 2 games
17 GP/12PIM = 6 2-min penalties - 1 penalty every 3 games - 1 5-min major in those 12 minutes leaving 7 minutes to distribute over 16 games.

Every guy Utica sends to Vancouver seems to be expected to be a physical, tough guy that can protect the frail (Hughes/Petey) guys or the non physical types (the rest) Benning has supplied his roster with. MacEwen and Bailey were not fighters. Neither were/are Lind nor Gadjovich nor any of the Vancouver prospect defenders that have played here except Pedan who got so severely concussed in one fight that his fighting and NA hockey career steadily declined every game thereafter. Last 3 seasons in the KHL.

You are big supporter of the old hockey world with big tough physical players and lots of fisticuffs. If you have watched hockey over at least the last decade, you have noticed that those guys are not the norm. Players are smaller, much faster, and far more skilled. The guys you advocate can't keep up with the guys they would be defending. Gadjovich would have his head handed to him in a bag if he had to tangle with those guys. Hell, pre-concussion Pedan would have tuned him up and deposited him in the nearest trash receptacle. However, that's okay because he shouldn't be looked at as one of those guys. Gadj is a hard nosed, but not fast skating player who forechecks and lives in the net front. He either goes there without the puck or shoots and crashes his way there when he does. Vancouver doesn't actually have one of those guys. My concern is he doesn't have the skating necessary to make in the NHL.

 

[iceburg]

You are over rating our young guys

QH43 is one of the worst defensive defensmen in the entire league.
EP40 is hurt every year
BH53 has games he can produce or be ice cold. Very inconsistent
TD35 has been good, but small sample size, le ss than 65 NHL games.


That is it. not great at all actually.

Interesting how you still follow this team. You present the most negative take on every player. I’m wondering whether you’re just trolling. Anyway, that’s all I’ll say. Not taking the bait. Bye

 

[PM]

This one's for @PM:

Love it. I was once saw a guy at Rogers wearing a half Sens and half Canucks jersey split right down the middle. It looked horrible and the Sens weren’t even playing. It was the Canucks vs Coyotes in I think 2013.

 

[mriswith]

Nailed it with the pre-game guess.

I'm gonna go ahead and call this the game where the wheels fall off. I predict we win 4 of the remaining 14 games. The schedule is absolutely brutal, everyone should go look at it if they haven't yet.

The next stretch is going to hurt so strap in boys, consolation prize (moral victory?) is that the loss streak we're about to go on isn't truly representative of the team.

I haven't been able to watch lately. Does our team look gassed yet?

At some point the wheels will come off as the fatigue mounts but I don't think that's quite yet. Maybe next game. I think we lose a close game tonight.

 

[Breakers]

underlying numbers for tonight
Juolevi and Myers xGA
Hughes showing that offensive ability
I can't explain it. EVERY single defenseman that gets paired with myers struggles immensely.
Juolevi and Myers actually works in its limited sample

 

[Bad Goalie]

Interesting how you still follow this team. You present the most negative take on every player. I’m wondering whether you’re just trolling. Anyway, that’s all I’ll say. Not taking the bait. Bye

He says this things in very obnoxious ways, but:
1 Hughes has been very weak defensively this season.
2 Petey has been hurt a lot.
3 Horvat is very good (IMO), but he is very inconsistent.
4 Thatcher has a history of injuries every season since he turned pro.

These things may not be pleasant to accept, but hey are facts. If these things remain constants, they will have a negative effect on the outcome of the Canucks future.

1a Will they be able to find another defender who can help make Quinn appear to be a solid NHL defender as Tanev did and no one since has?

2a Can Petey put on some muscle and get physically stronger or is he one of those guys that just seems to have a plastic skeleton? There have been and still are many of them throughout the league.

3a Can Horvat find a way to be the same basic player every night? Not one to score a goal every night, but to be a threat to while helping his line mates be productive as well. He is a center and that 2nd piece is very important. If the whole line is a threat every time they take a shift that makes the Canucks much more dangerous as the opponent has to plan to defend them. If the first line is even more dangerous that's 2 lines that have to be stopped. Now a 3rd line that is also dangerous makes the Canucks a very serious foe to contend with.
These 3 lines are not yet a part of the every game Vancouver lineup.

4a Can the Canucks develop or acquire a 2nd keeper that can come close to matching Demko's game results the way Thatcher and Jacob did. The way Holtby has played of late vs the other half of the season. Thatcher's history says he will likely have the mishaps along the way every season. Someone has to be capable of replacing him when he's out or partnering with him to possibly lessen the possibilities of injury.

Theses 4 issues 1st need to be recognized by management which I'm not sure Benning/Aqualini and Co. do. Once recognized, they need to be addressed by management and coaching in team construction and the systems they play as well as backup systems to utilize when issues arise that cause the team to have deficiencies they can't atone for with roster they have because of them.

 

[VanJack]

A perfect Jim Benning night. On the out-of-town scoreboard, Tofoli scores his 25th goal of the season which stands up as the winner against Calgary.

And Nate Schmidt, the guy who got Tofoli's money had arguably his worst game as a Canuck. It was a mighty struggle for him and Edler all night.

I've actually started counting d-zone giveaways out of morbid curiosity. Counted five giveaways from that pairing of Schmidt-Edler on the same shift, before the puck finally ended up in the net for the winning goal.

And to add insult to injury....I had to listen to IMac and Satiar Shaw on between periods bleating away about how the Canucks need to do right thing with Green, and sign him to an extension because 'he's done such a wonderful job'. These guys basically have zero credibility.

 

[arttk]

Don't worry, we can turn it around if we give Benning another two years....

We will finally be big and fast and skill. Just don’t look at our roster and wonder how we will get there.

 

[Get North]

Sure a 6'2"/209 lb guy takes on a 5'11"/181 lb guy who is 2 COVID shortened seasons out of NCAA Boston College where fighting is not allowed and tunes the guy up. Fitzgerald has played 50 AHL hockey games and spent 64 minutes in the penalty box which is 32 2-min penalties. that's like 1 2-min penalty in each of 2/3 of the games he's played. How much fighting do you think this kid has done?

For that matter how much do, you think Jonah has done?
43 GP/32 PIM = 16 2-min penalties - c.1 penalty every 3 games
38 GP/32 PIM = 16 2-min penalties - about 1 2-min every 2 games
17 GP/12PIM = 6 2-min penalties - 1 penalty every 3 games - 1 5-min major in those 12 minutes leaving 7 minutes to distribute over 16 games.

Every guy Utica sends to Vancouver seems to be expected to be a physical, tough guy that can protect the frail (Hughes/Petey) guys or the non physical types (the rest) Benning has supplied his roster with. MacEwen and Bailey were not fighters. Neither were/are Lind nor Gadjovich nor any of the Vancouver prospect defenders that have played here except Pedan who got so severely concussed in one fight that his fighting and NA hockey career steadily declined every game thereafter. Last 3 seasons in the KHL.

You are big supporter of the old hockey world with big tough physical players and lots of fisticuffs. If you have watched hockey over at least the last decade, you have noticed that those guys are not the norm. Players are smaller, much faster, and far more skilled. The guys you advocate can't keep up with the guys they would be defending. Gadjovich would have his head handed to him in a bag if he had to tangle with those guys. Hell, pre-concussion Pedan would have tuned him up and deposited him in the nearest trash receptacle. However, that's okay because he shouldn't be looked at as one of those guys. Gadj is a hard nosed, but not fast skating player who forechecks and lives in the net front. He either goes there without the puck or shoots and crashes his way there when he does. Vancouver doesn't actually have one of those guys. My concern is he doesn't have the skating necessary to make in the NHL.

There's no room for guys like Pedan/McSorley who don't contribute to hockey other than fighting, but Gadjovich knows his role and he hasn't become a faster skater but he's certainly became a better fighter. Of course he has improved since being an AHL freshman at 20 years old. He knows what he's good at, deflecting pucks, protecting the puck, and being a physical menace for opponents. I think he's a smart kid and isn't going to change his game once he plays in the NHL.

MacEwen has been a great service for the Canucks, his offence isn't there consistently, but he's fought Forbert, Foligno, etc. Not afraid of the heavyweights. Gadjovich has some more offensive upside, which is what we truly need.

I would rather give Canuck prospects who embraced the system and improved in Utica. These waiver claims who are thinking about their next opportunity are not interesting to me. The Kings, Sharks, Ducks embrace their young guys who were working hard in the AHL and gave them a shot with their worthwhile players like Couture/Getzlaf/Kopitar.

 

[deckercky]

Arent we the worst 5 on 5 team over the last decade?

First, a large part of that is running a bottom 6 centered by Beagle and Sutter over the last few years. They are absolute anchors in terms of possession.

Second, while I have a lot of good things to say about green - players love him, he gets full effort from everyone, and he's shown the ability to actually make impactful adjustments. But, his defensive structure overall is not good and he doesn't have a great transition system and it shows in the teams possession stats.

 

[sting101]

Don’t really understand Green’s issue with MacEwen. He was effective last year in a 3rd/4th line energy role down the stretch, then got press boxed when the playoffs began and never seemed to recover in the coaches’ eyes.

Vesey, yeah. Cheap depth, but definitely seen enough of him near the top of the lineup.

Agree on MacEwen. Just never got the opportunity this year. Have noticed he makes a lot of puck management mistakes but the guy has some skill and can obviously make some space too when playing physical. Him and Virtanen have had bad years but the usage has been highly questionable if you ask me.

Vesey is a turn over machine and has no idea how to work with his line mates. I expected much more from a vet. He's been really poor and i don't want him back.

 

[mathonwy]

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Agree on MacEwen. Just never got the opportunity this year. Have noticed he makes a lot of puck management mistakes but the guy has some skill and can obviously make some space too when playing physical. Him and Virtanen have had bad years but the usage has been highly questionable if you ask me.

Vesey is a turn over machine and has no idea how to work with his line mates. I expected much more from a vet. He's been really poor and i don't want him back.

Yeah, MacEwen looks like a guy with zero confidence right now. Which is too bad, as I think he brings a lot of elements we lack and if Green would give him a bit of leeway, I think he could be really effective for us.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Boy am I done with Jimmy Vesey. Useless player.

 

[sting101]

Yeah, MacEwen looks like a guy with zero confidence right now. Which is too bad, as I think he brings a lot of elements we lack and if Green would give him a bit of leeway, I think he could be really effective for us.

yes i thought early in the year he would be the Leivo replacement with Pearson and Horvat.

I get that Hoglander earned a top6 look for awhile and is/was great but he could have brought a ton to a 3rd unit with Gaudette/Sutter and Virtanen had Travis ran with that look. He never really attempted to put together another unit that wasn't purely for checking after the poor start and falling behind

He would have been interesting with Petey and Miller even if they ran with that for awhile. Lots of teams set up the 3 best duos and then use grind forecheck net presence components as the 3rd piece. The roster/line decisions have been odd.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Drives me mental how Hughes is constantly fidgeting with his jersey and helmet. Just *****in play
Schmidtt is nowhere near the player Tanev is, big downgrade, never mind should have had both
Hoglander needs a Kesler like shooting improvement. 100 pucks a day on net, start from 0 after each miss.
Virtanen is not good..

Been done with the coaches for a long time. PP is horrible. The entire team refuses to push the play forward, always circling back, stopping to look for a point pass, behind the net to D partners. Always garbage passes to the back hand that cause turnovers or at best slow any momentum. Just skate forward, with some purpose, score on the rush FFS.

 

[Bougieman]

Boys were definitely tired but the coaches surely could’ve designed a better game plan than this.
We’ve been seeing the same exact shit under TG for 3 years

The systems are PAAAAAAINFULLLY stale. Way past their expiry date. This can't continue next season. Need either new coaching staff, or for these old dogs to learn new tricks, pronto.