Post-Game Talk: Sens @ Bolts 11/10 | Goonies never say die

[God Says No]

Playing with Karlsson is pretty easy I imagine. Take in front of the net, support him on the boards and get the puck to him. A simple player like Boro, or more accurately a guy who knows his role and won't over-step (Cowen), might have an easy time.

The problem with that plan is that whomever plays with Karlsson has to play 20 min or more a game. Would you play Boro more than 20 min a game? I would not.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

If Methot was paired with Karlsson there instead of Cowen, Karlsson most likely passes to Methot or Methot makes a much better defensive play after Karlsson turnover.

It's gonna suck if every risk Karlsson takes is basically 100% great chance against us the other way. What's the point of Cowen then. Lol.

With that being said, he's still raw and inexperienced. With Cowen, the game will come, IMO. Once Methot comes back and Cowen plays more sheltered role, he'll be better.

So basically whoever is Karlsson's partner is expected to fix his mistakes?

 

[WhiteLight*]

what's everyone's issue with Boro? Why is he so untrustable compared to everyone else?

 

[StefanW]

So basically whoever is Karlsson's partner is expected to fix his mistakes?

And we have a winner for tonight's "comment most likely to be ridiculed on Twitter" award.

 

[StefanW]

what's everyone's issue with Boro? Why is he so untrustable compared to everyone else?

I think Borocop has been fine. He has a limited skill set and a limited role, and all as good so long as he keeps hitting people and does not do anything too fancy. That is fine for a #6 who will get a bit of press box time as the season goes on.

 

[DylanSensFan]

I've said a lot hell probably end up regularly in the 50-65 point range.

Junior production isn't somethig you want to rely too heavily on. That method goes wrong quite a bit and sometimes it's predictable.

I think this has been proven by Rundblad and on the other side of that... Karlsson or Zibanejad.

 

[DylanSensFan]

what's everyone's issue with Boro? Why is he so untrustable compared to everyone else?

Well, for one... his mobility is limited when compared to Cowen. He is just not as quick as any of the other defenders who play for this team. Except maybe Gryba.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I think this has been proven by Rundblad and on the other side of that... Karlsson or Zibanejad.

None of those guys you mentioned played junior.

 

[DylanSensFan]

None of those guys you mentioned played junior.

Yes, but they played SEL. Which a lot of people cannot see regarding translation of scoring output. It is tantamount to junior here. Either way... Lazar is a more complete player then Stone when looking at their respective junior careers. Stone looked a lot better offensively, but Lazar's game translates to the NHL better.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

So basically whoever is Karlsson's partner is expected to fix his mistakes?

Loool, funny how you read it.

 

[Knave]

So basically whoever is Karlsson's partner is expected to fix his mistakes?

I'd settle for one who didn't make glaring mistakes in our own zone.

You can't swat at the puck, turn it over and let the guy walk into the slot.

Yeah, Karlsson originally turned it over in the neutral zone... so what? Players trying to make plays turn it over. The turnover wasn't particularly bad. It ended up in our net because of Cowen's poor play and coverage. He was benched because of it.

I'm not upset at the turnover by Cowen either - I'm upset at how lazy he was on the play - you can't swat a puck and assume it's going to get out while coasting away from the puck/play... you have to be ready to battle. Cowen didn't. Cowen got benched.

 

[Korpse]

Playing with Karlsson is pretty easy I imagine. Take in front of the net, support him on the boards and get the puck to him. A simple player like Boro, or more accurately a guy who knows his role and won't over-step (Cowen), might have an easy time.

I'd argue playing Karlsson would be more difficult than any other D on this team. That's not a knock on Karlsson, just his style is unpredictable. Honestly I dont know what he will do, even after 300+ games of watching. Add on the fact that he makes high risks plays. You are right though, he needs someone who knows their role, I don't think Cowen is that guy yet.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

The problem with that plan is that whomever plays with Karlsson has to play 20 min or more a game. Would you play Boro more than 20 min a game? I would not.

Did it in the AHL Heck idk we play Cowen 20 minutes a game sometimes and then the next game he get 7 mins or something.

 

[Benjamin]

what's everyone's issue with Boro? Why is he so untrustable compared to everyone else?

Yeah. I dont get it. He got burned a bit by fast skaters on the outside but usually made the recovery. He's making less mistakes than Cowen and Gryba, while having a better breakout. He actually plays simple and knows his role compared to Cowen.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I've been pretty happy with Boro's overall play as well. I'm not opposed to him skating with Karlsson. He's not a top 2 guy but he does have the skill set to compliment Karlsson.

I think for most people, they already have a preconceived notion of what Boro is and what he will be and there's an unwillingness to acknowledge that he may be more because it will go against past claims. Same situation with Cowen. People have poured their little souls out onto their keyboards telling us how awful Cowen is and how he's Hitler's reincarnation. Sometimes you just need to wait and see and let guys play.

 

[Minister of Offence]

Yes, but they played SEL. Which a lot of people cannot see regarding translation of scoring output. It is tantamount to junior here. Either way... Lazar is a more complete player then Stone when looking at their respective junior careers. Stone looked a lot better offensively, but Lazar's game translates to the NHL better.

Those guys both translate really well. The smart players tend to find a way.

 

[mcnorth]

I'd argue playing Karlsson would be more difficult than any other D on this team. That's not a knock on Karlsson, just his style is unpredictable. Honestly I dont know what he will do, even after 300+ games of watching. Add on the fact that he makes high risks plays. You are right though, he needs someone who knows their role, I don't think Cowen is that guy yet.

And that's maybe why the guy with the simplest game, Boro, is the best fit.

Boro plays it safe. Boro knows his role. Boro doesn't rush the puck. Boro passes the puck out of the zone competently. Boro stands up for his teammates. Boro has limited mobility - so have him cover less ice by always being the safety.

Methot is still a much better fit - his mobility is better, so he's a better option on quick transitions against and on odd man rushes against. Methot moves the puck better, especially in the offensive zone, which adds a dynamic Boro can't.

But it may be a move similar to putting Stone with Turris and Mac, and Ryan with Zib. It creates more depth. And Cowen can play his game, rather than trying to reinvent himself and always read off EK - which is difficult to do for him. It's enough for Cowen, it seems sometimes, to remember where he's supposed to be, add onto that the read and react to your partner - and you get a guy who blows the zone like he did in the first game and are left wondering, "where the **** was he going?"

If the staff does quit on the idea of Cowen with EK, which is still a very new pairing and deserves more time IMO before we say it doesn't work (hasn't yet, not betting on it, but still early), I'd be interested to see Boro with EK. Heck, I'd even like to see PW with EK. Patty's game is actually not that unlike Kuba's. Decent offensive skills, a little slow of foot, good hockey mind... PW isn't Kuba - but he might be the next closest thing we have that is currently in the NHL.

 

[Minister of Offence]

I've been pretty happy with Boro's overall play as well. I'm not opposed to him skating with Karlsson. He's not a top 2 guy but he does have the skill set to compliment Karlsson.

I think for most people, they already have a preconceived notion of what Boro is and what he will be and there's an unwillingness to acknowledge that he may be more because it will go against past claims. Same situation with Cowen. People have poured their little souls out onto their keyboards telling us how awful Cowen is and how he's Hitler's reincarnation. Sometimes you just need to wait and see and let guys play.

2nd paragraph. Nice.

Watching that second period I figured their only option was to put boro there. Put the guy who naturall makes the game simple. It's not the right spot for cowen, atleast not now. Probably not a good spot for Lips either. So by default it goes to boro. Not to take away from boro, but karlsson has made quality dmen ou of methot and kuba, probably made those guys better than they were before him. Why? They kept it simple. Be there when 3 guys swarm EK and give it to him when he's free. Do that while playing a fundamentally sound game and you can get a lot of praise playing with karlsson. You might even get your first invite to a team canada camp.

Nice thing for boro is even just a short time there could help him progress his confidence. He doesn't have a glaring deficiency in the back 2/3rds you might see him rise into a #4-5role over time.

 

[DylanSensFan]

Those guys both translate really well. The smart players tend to find a way.

the players yes, not fans. fans are the issue here.

 

[DylanSensFan]

For me it is not a question of whether or not Boro can defend. The guy is a monster and I trust him to defend well. The question I ponder is his mobility against top end forwards. He may have enough, but he may get spun like top when really fast forwards bare down.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

I'd settle for one who didn't make glaring mistakes in our own zone.

You can't swat at the puck, turn it over and let the guy walk into the slot.

Yeah, Karlsson originally turned it over in the neutral zone... so what? Players trying to make plays turn it over. The turnover wasn't particularly bad. It ended up in our net because of Cowen's poor play and coverage. He was benched because of it.

I'm not upset at the turnover by Cowen either - I'm upset at how lazy he was on the play - you can't swat a puck and assume it's going to get out while coasting away from the puck/play... you have to be ready to battle. Cowen didn't. Cowen got benched.

Just remember though Cowen is playing against top lines of the opposition. Can Boro do the same and perform? That's still in question. He has been playing 3rd pairing minutes. I wouldn't mind trying him with Karlsson though.

 

[Sensinitis]

Well, for one... his mobility is limited when compared to Cowen. He is just not as quick as any of the other defenders who play for this team. Except maybe Gryba.

Disagree. He's clearly better than Gryba. He's a similar skater to Phillips and arguably better than Cowen in his first few steps.

 

[Micklebot]

At the moment sending him back would be worse for the hockey team right now.

He played quite a bit last night, it was his second game.

He's probably gonna get better faster than every other player on the team.

I feel like in 3 months there's gonna be a lot of people saying "oh all of a sudden he's showing offense - it came out of nowhere". I'll say that if it happens that way it was kinda predictable. He has ability that translates into offense

I'm not sure that's true. Him in the lineup puts Smith on the wing where he's not as effective (though it does prevent GSN).

You can argue Lazar is currently better than Pageau, Greening, Condra or Puempel, but the upgrade comes at the expense of Smith as a center (1 faceoff so far from the guy who is probably the best at the dot on the team). Personally, I'd rather have Puempel up and Smith at center. Maybe they play Lazar at the wing and I see things differently, but they way I see it, the benefit of Lazar in the lineup is offset by Smith at wing.

 

[Minister of Offence]

I'm not sure that's true. Him in the lineup puts Smith on the wing where he's not as effective (though it does prevent GSN).

You can argue Lazar is currently better than Pageau, Greening, Condra or Puempel, but the upgrade comes at the expense of Smith as a center (1 faceoff so far from the guy who is probably the best at the dot on the team). Personally, I'd rather have Puempel up and Smith at center. Maybe they play Lazar at the wing and I see things differently, but they way I see it, the benefit of Lazar in the lineup is offset by Smith at wing.

Practice lines were Hoff smith lazar yesterday.

That could be a best case scenario

 

[Micklebot]

Practice lines were Hoff smith lazar yesterday.

That could be a best case scenario

I'd be cool with that.