Post-Game Talk: Sens @ Avs - 1/8/2015

[Fandlauer]

Spezza was on our team last year and we sucked. He wouldn't make any difference here.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Good grief.

Do people honestly think Spezza would've made a difference with this team? So what, by the end of the year we can have 3-4 more points? Whooppee.

Problem is we got jack on the roster right now for him. Chiasson isn't proving to be anything more than a fill-in, and Paul is a few years away. Scrooge needed to open up the purse strings and bring in a solid playmaker for the next 2-3 years while the kids progress.

 

[Suiteness]

Spezza was on our team last year and we sucked. He wouldn't make any difference here.

Well that's not 100% true. Spezza usually goes in God mode when the season is pretty much done and singlehandedly gets us wins that pushes us toward a crappier draft pick. So he can make a difference I guess.

Can't really be surprised at how our team is doing when you look at our roster. The bigger issue would be that the farm is every bit as pathetic. This will get worse before it gets better. Morale of the story is the same freaking one that’s been ongoing in every North American league for as long as I can remember; any team that goes the retooling route instead of rebuilding will wander in the desert until the realize that they would have been better off rebuilding in the first place.

Retooling is not being good enough to make the playoffs but not bad enough to the get the top draft picks. Retooling is having prospects like Cowen, Zibanejad and Lazar in your pipeline instead of top drawer guys like Hedman, Landeskog or McKinnon.

What I’d like to see before the end of season:

1) Anderson traded for some quality players. There’s a few teams looking for goaltending at the moment (Minnesota comes to mind) and I figure the time to move Anderson will never be as good. Lehner is ready to be a #1.

2) With Murray leaving, take the opportunity to dump his lackeys as well (Dorion and like). It’s ridiculous that these guys enjoy Edmonton Oilers like immunity when they’ve accomplished so very little. This teams needs fresh blood and new ideas, this organization is stale beyond belief.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Anyone know what the bottom pick percentages are for winning the draft lottery?

Realistically whats the lowest we could finish?

 

[benjiv1]

New slogan for the rest of the year "Not Awesome, for Lawson."

 

[Micklebot]

As I already said "mr pouty" I did not see the mistakes coming from the Avs matching the Sens.

Even if the Avs were making a lot of mistakes, how do that justify the Sens playing like high schoolers?

If the Avs were making more mistake than us, how did they score 5 goals?

The people paid to break down the game said the Sens were awful. If you don't believe them, there' nothing I can do for you.

come on now. We nearly had as many shots from the home plate area as they had in total. How does that happen if they aren't making mistakes?

Ottawa made mistakes, so did the avs. I'm really not sure how this is contensious for anyone who watched the game, the only thing that makes sense is that people are letting end results colour their analysis in hopes of avoiding the cognitive dissonance.

The avs allowed a ton of prime scoring chances (19 shots from the home plate area!!!). That's not even debatable. So either they also made lots of mistakes, or we are totally awesome at creating opportunities, but just lacked the finish.

As for the people paid to analyse the game, I'm sure if you'd watched the Avs analysts after the game, they'd have been talking about how much the avs need to tighted up, because they won't win many games playing like that. The TSN broadcase is aimed at a very specific demographic; Ottawa area viewers. So they focus on our play. That doesn't mean they didn't see plenty wrong with how the avs played too, just that it was out of scope for their viewership.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I dunno. I thought the Avs played a better game than we did....but it wasn't by a huge margin. We were just brutal defensively. That was the big difference.

 

[BankStreetParade]

I dunno. I thought the Avs played a better game than we did....but it wasn't by a huge margin. We were just brutal defensively. That was the big difference.

The Avs scored 3 goals on their first 9 shots and scored 2 goals on the first 2 shots of the third period. We had 4 full and partial breakaways plus several scoring opportunities and the guy at the other end of the ice shut the door. Let's not act like they outshot us 60-5.

 

[WhiteLight*]

Only saw the first two periods. Avs got lucky, Ottawa played fine. Not saying Ottawa deserved to win but I liked what a saw from a lot of players.

Varlamov is damn good. People think Ottawa has good goaltending in Anderson, nope, that is good goaltending.

Greening is just bad though. Loose puck, he floats around and doesn't race for it, the Avs player gets it, then he starts skating Some of the worst hockey I've seen in a long time at the NHL level

 

[Micklebot]

Good grief.

Do people honestly think Spezza would've made a difference with this team? So what, by the end of the year we can have 3-4 more points? Whooppee.

Problem is we got jack on the roster right now for him. Chiasson isn't proving to be anything more than a fill-in, and Paul is a few years away. Scrooge needed to open up the purse strings and bring in a solid playmaker for the next 2-3 years while the kids progress.

Well, Spezza would have meant no Legwand, replacing him with Spezza would have helped our PP (which in the last 20 games probably cost us 3-4 points alone). I think it's fair to say we could be 6 pts up with Spezza instead of Chiasson/Legwand which would have us on pace for 94. Still a bubble team, but much more likely to make it than now.

Bigger problems are on the D though, both defensemen and team d. I still beleive it's improved, but we are still making the big mistakes that cost us. Getting Methot back should help, particularly once he's back with Karlsson, but imo this road trip was the determining factor in whether or not we should hold the course or write it off as a development season, and it's not looking pretty.

Getting younger won't help. The reason we are making the mistakes we do is because of the lack of experience. I'm not a fan of our hybrid "man" coverage vs "zone" with such an inexperienced team, but I'm also not sure that's something you want to switch mid season if you have aspirations of making the playoffs (soon, if not already, that won't be an issue). While I have no issues with trying to get the most development we can out of this season, I'm not sure throwing the kids to the wolves is the best way to accomplish that.

I like our top 6, but we need Zibanejad to take that next step before it can be truly competitive. Turris is struggling this year. Hopefully he bounces back, because we need him to be better.

I like our top 4 D with Methot, but I don't love it. Ideally, we'd have one more good vet top 4 guy. Cowen/Ceci have great potential, but it will take time. Until then we need some insulation for them.

 

[WhiteLight*]

Yeah Turris....

He needs to focus on his two way game. Put defense before offense like he used to. I loved the way he approached the game since he got here, but his mindset seems to be different this year. Taking shortcuts defensively

 

[Micklebot]

I dunno. I thought the Avs played a better game than we did....but it wasn't by a huge margin. We were just brutal defensively. That was the big difference.

I think the Avs defense would have appeared a lot worse to people had we scored on one or more of the times we got them running around and everybody got to see replays followed by a detailed breakdown of the play by Ward in the intermission. You don't allow the ~20 shots from the slot being solid defensively. Avs brokedown just as much as we did, if not more, imo. The difference being we put pucks off the outside of the wide open net, hit posts and missed entirely when we had our chances, or Varlamov came up big. Avs scored on some screened shots, we had our shots blocked or go wide. We were far from solid defensively, but that game was a tire fire for both teams on the backend, not just us.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Yeah Turris....

He needs to focus on his two way game. Put defense before offense like he used to. I loved the way he approached the game since he got here, but his mindset seems to be different this year. Taking shortcuts defensively

He's also playing way more minutes this year, going up against the oppositions' best defensive units and leads the team in faceoffs taken by a significant margin.

I can't even really be mad this year. I see this season as a win-win. We make the playoffs: it's a win. Kids get experience and the team matures.

Miss the playoffs: it's a win. We get a nice draft pick and a nice player and we go from there.

 

[2CHAINZ]

This is the wrong year to complain about us sucking this draft is amazing. Just imagine a top 5 pick and one more year of growth for our players. Some of you are so crazy. Building a sports franchise with longevity of success takes time it's a marathon not a sprint. There is no UFA we missed the boat on in the past cpl of seasons that makes us contenders so stop crying about Melnyk not spending cause if he did and the player (s) came here and we still sucked you'd just change your argument to how bad Murray is at signing players. Enjoy the games if we win cool and if we finish at the bottom even better.

 

[God Says No]

come on now. We nearly had as many shots from the home plate area as they had in total. How does that happen if they aren't making mistakes?

Ottawa made mistakes, so did the avs. I'm really not sure how this is contensious for anyone who watched the game, the only thing that makes sense is that people are letting end results colour their analysis in hopes of avoiding the cognitive dissonance.

The avs allowed a ton of prime scoring chances (19 shots from the home plate area!!!). That's not even debatable. So either they also made lots of mistakes, or we are totally awesome at creating opportunities, but just lacked the finish.

As for the people paid to analyse the game, I'm sure if you'd watched the Avs analysts after the game, they'd have been talking about how much the avs need to tighted up, because they won't win many games playing like that. The TSN broadcase is aimed at a very specific demographic; Ottawa area viewers. So they focus on our play. That doesn't mean they didn't see plenty wrong with how the avs played too, just that it was out of scope for their viewership.

Thank you. Very well said. These are the points I've been trying Push540 to see.

The bottom line is that we have been playing better under Cameron. Whether it's the coach, the players (i.e. no Neil, Smith, etc), or just the new coach smell is still under debate. But I no longer come out of watching the games with a feeling that we were not in the same league as the other team. At the beginning of the year, I had that sentiment more often than not.

 

[WhiteLight*]

He's also playing way more minutes this year, going up against the oppositions' best defensive units and leads the team in faceoffs taken by a significant margin.

I can't even really be mad this year. I see this season as a win-win. We make the playoffs: it's a win. Kids get experience and the team matures.

Miss the playoffs: it's a win. We get a nice draft pick and a nice player and we go from there.

As far as i know he's been leading Ottawa forwards in ice time for years now and has played vs the toughest competition during this time.

That's why he was so impressive before this year; he put up the offense that he did and was extremely good defensively against good players.

unfortunately he's taken a step back, probably looking to fill the offensive void. But he put up more offense playing the responsible way he did before, so it's backfiring on him and the team right now

 

[Micklebot]

He's also playing way more minutes this year, going up against the oppositions' best defensive units and leads the team in faceoffs taken by a significant margin.

I can't even really be mad this year. I see this season as a win-win. We make the playoffs: it's a win. Kids get experience and the team matures.

Miss the playoffs: it's a win. We get a nice draft pick and a nice player and we go from there.

I just want to see progress at this point.

- Right now, Wier and Karlsson look good together.
- Methot is back
- Pageau looks great in a bottom 6 role

On the other hand;

- Ceci/Cowen are having some rough nights
- Turris and MacA are struggling
- The PP can't catch a break (I still see good pressure, it's crazy how long this cold streak is going)
- Defensive breakdowns are still costing us.

I'd have no issues moving on from any of Smith, Greening Neil, and Legwand. Phillips too, because I don't see them providing enough insulation to make a difference. Michalek can stay, he's still a solid defensive player and great on the PK. Not what we're paying to be, but it is what it is.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

The Avs scored 3 goals on their first 9 shots and scored 2 goals on the first 2 shots of the third period. We had 4 full and partial breakaways plus several scoring opportunities and the guy at the other end of the ice shut the door. Let's not act like they outshot us 60-5.

I think we can all agree that if the Senators played any other team other than the Avs last night, their offensive chances would be greatly limited while their defensive lapses would be made even more obvious.

That's the problem I have with last night's game. Sure, it's arguable that they may have outplayed Colorado, however, Colorado is NOT a good team. They are just as bad, if not worse, than us. Playing that same style against other teams will result in even more losses.

We can all take consolation that this team may be playing "better" in certain aspects of their game i.e. shots are down. but there is also major concern in areas such as the abysmal powerplay, the repeated defensive breakdowns in their own end which sees opposing players skate through the zone unabated, and that they cannot finish the chances they generate.

What it all adds up to is a team that has won 2 games of their last 8 and since November, has had FOUR regulation wins.

So for anyone wondering why there is a general abundance of pessimism on this board, that's why. The Sens are fast approaching another wasted season where the direction of the team is still unclear to many of us beyond "Well, they're young". They were pretty young last year, they'll probably be younger next year. But then what? When does this team begin to compete with the best of the league? If the belief is that our prospects will get better with experience, whose to say that other teams' prospects won't do the same and get better than ours?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

This is the wrong year to complain about us sucking this draft is amazing. Just imagine a top 5 pick and one more year of growth for our players. Some of you are so crazy. Building a sports franchise with longevity of success takes time it's a marathon not a sprint. There is no UFA we missed the boat on in the past cpl of seasons that makes us contenders so stop crying about Melnyk not spending cause if he did and the player (s) came here and we still sucked you'd just change your argument to how bad Murray is at signing players. Enjoy the games if we win cool and if we finish at the bottom even better.

Spending more isn't just about UFA's.

Spending more also means being willing to move some redundant players (Prince, Weir, Greening, Chiasson, Mickalek, etc) in a package deal for a guy with a higher price tag than what we're moving out.

If the only trades we can make are money coming in must equal money going out, then we simply don't have the ability to make any deal that's in the best interest of making our team more competitive.

 

[WhiteLight*]

I just want to see progress at this point.

- Right now, Wier and Karlsson look good together.
- Methot is back
- Pageau looks great in a bottom 6 role

On the other hand;

- Ceci/Cowen are having some rough nights
- Turris and MacA are struggling
- The PP can't catch a break (I still see good pressure, it's crazy how long this cold streak is going)
- Defensive breakdowns are still costing us.

I'd have no issues moving on from any of Smith, Greening Neil, and Legwand. Phillips too, because I don't see them providing enough insulation to make a difference. Michalek can stay, he's still a solid defensive player and great on the PK. Not what we're paying to be, but it is what it is.

I agree with pretty all this much. I'd like to move Michalek but he's not necessarily hurting the team right now other than taking PP time from Stone and Hoffman, which is ridiculous (Sens are asking to have a bad PP).

Ceci and Cowen isn't gelling all too well, both are young and making costly mistakes. Split em up and put them with two more defensively responsible vets.

Wiercioch - Karlsson
Methot - Ceci
Cowen - Gryba

is what I want to see. PW - Karlsson is very nice.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

The Avs scored 3 goals on their first 9 shots and scored 2 goals on the first 2 shots of the third period. We had 4 full and partial breakaways plus several scoring opportunities and the guy at the other end of the ice shut the door. Let's not act like they outshot us 60-5.

That's not what I said. I said I felt Colorado played better, but not by a wide margin.

As in, they were a bit better than we were.


I want the Sens to win as much as anyone, but you can't realistically say you outplayed your opponent when you lose by three goals. Especially when our guys were....well, I don't know what they were trying to do in the defensive zone in a couple of those goals.

 

[Icelevel]

simple fix. and it's an obvious one i keep going on about.

swap ryan and stone.

unless, again, the goal is to improve our draft pick.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

simple fix. and it's an obvious one i keep going on about.

swap ryan and stone.

unless, again, the goal is to improve our draft pick.

I definitely think Cameron has to try it. Turris and Mac definitely need a boost right now, and we know that Ryan clicks with them.

 

[WhiteLight*]

MacArthur - Turris - Ryan
Hoffman - Zibanejad - Stone
Prince - Pageau - Chiasson/Lazar
Michalek - Legwand - Condra

Wiercioch - Karlsson
Methot - Ceci
Cowen - Gryba

Lehner/Anderson

 

[God Says No]

I think we can all agree that if the Senators played any other team other than the Avs last night, their offensive chances would be greatly limited while their defensive lapses would be made even more obvious.

That's the problem I have with last night's game. Sure, it's arguable that they may have outplayed Colorado, however, Colorado is NOT a good team. They are just as bad, if not worse, than us. Playing that same style against other teams will result in even more losses.

I agree with this, but I'd like to add that we are not the only team immune to this. Even the top squads have defensive breakdowns. It's just a matter of how many. I don't have any numbers to back this up, but to me it feels like the number of breakdowns for us has come down when compared to even the start of the season.

This last game was weird though. The Avs were scoring at a very high percentage. Maybe due to traffic, Andy not being a super hero, or the shots were just excellent.

Just to add, if we play like we have played the last weeks, we'll win more games than lose. I truly believe that. There have been numerous instances recently where I came out saying "we outplayed those guys and deserved to win". That did not happen at all at the beginning of the season. It was quite the opposite.