Post-Game Talk: Sens @ Avs - 1/8/2015

[Xspyrit]

lots of posts I need to quote from the GDT... I'll never understand why we can't continue in GDTs... Anyway

Hutz
No, no, we jest... this was a horrible game... don't stop believin', tho.

As long as we're consistent for the rest of the year, I'll be happy. Consistently horrible or great... unfortunately odds are we'll remain mediocre and get 10th overall.

10th overall this year will be like 5th overall in most year... And I believe we will draft 8th

Stop worrying

Push540
And the Avs are only a .500 team.

And have basically the same record as the Sens (17-16-8) but a worse differential (-14 vs -6)

JBucephalus
My point is that in an ideal world they would be reserved for injury fill ins only.

Again...

1 : Karlsson
2 : Methot
3 : Ceci
4 : Cowen
5 : Phillips
6 : Gryba
7 : Borowiecki
8 : Wiercioch

Gryba is very adequate as a 6th, don't reach it... He has some bad nights but overall he is solid enough. Phillips is at the end of his career and I believe he would be more than fine sheltered on the 3rd pairing... He has been played out of position because of Methot injury and lack of depth/experience on the back-end... This is easily the most inexperienced defense in the NHL, particularly when Phillips doesn't play. Borowiecki or Claesson or I dunno, Englund or Harpur will replace Phillips soon enough

So they basically all play roles that you wish they would play if Methot is healthy... What is the problem? It's Karlsson-Methot-Ceci-Cowen that need to be better if you want to become a better team... Stop caring about stop gap fillers like Gryba or Phillips (since he is getting close to retirement). That's one of the things that I find the most funny of this board... People always get on the back of the depth players, when in reality you win or lose by the sword of your best players (However I'd agree that Wiercioch is pretty dangerous for his own team at times)

Push540
Well I would say it's the shot that's most likely not to reach the net. That far distance, the bodies, sticks etc.

Also, all I was saying was Driving a player in the back with your gloves over and over is a good, proven deterrent.

I didn't say no one would screen again. But it does get players to move around and it is better than leaving them there all alone.

If they try it again, no way they are as lucky again. They were godly opportunistic. It's a game of inches and bounces, and tonight the Avs got them. Shots got through, good for them. It's a long season and there's all kinds of games in a season... After 22 years following the NHL as close a I can, not a lot surprise me anymore.

Finally, shots were 38-21 and it reflects also scoring chances. If you look at the game cast, and shots location it's heavily at the advantage of the Sens...

http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/gamecast?gameId=400564054

Also checked the highlights again and Varlamov was a brick wall. We did well scoring 2 goals on him... Lehner or Andy tonight for the Avs and the Sens score at least 6-7...

But to your point, yes they can surely improve in checking players in front of the net... but every team scores a lot like that, even the Sens (a bit less lately though)

ChocolateLeclaire
By looking at the roster and the payroll, everything about this team says it's a rebuild. However, there are serious mixed messages sent from the management team. Firing Maclean was done under the guise of "we believe this is a playoff team and are under performing." And there are reputable sources indicating that Murray is looking to acquire an offensive player to make a "playoff push" (according to Lebrun)

I honestly believe that Murray thinks he's built a playoff roster because of the over achievement of two years ago.

Last year's Hemsky trade was to push the team ahead. It didn't work and now the team is out a 3rd pick this year.

You'd have to be pretty foolish and naïve if you believe everything a seller is telling you... They have to sell tickets, jerseys, hockey cards, etc. they have to build some excitement... What do you expect them to say?

"ok we are rebuilding so our priority is player development. We surround them with just enough veterans to reach the cap floor and take some heat off the young guys... We will battle for a playoff spot but it will be very hard to reach them this year. Losing Spezza one year after losing Alfie and Gonchar was very tough. A couple injuries and we're doomed. But don't expect us to sacrifice prospects or picks for a quick fix and a better chance at making the playoffs. That is not the priority even if you always fight to make the playoffs."

There, I said it. Does it feel better? lol

Of course, it looked very good 2 years ago making the playoffs with a depleted roster and even winning a round against the 2nd seed... But a lot happened since then... Lost Alfie, Gonchar and now Spezza. That's a lot of poise and veteran scoring. It was also a shortened season against the East only and the Sens only struggle against the West, they usually do very good against the East.

If they acquire an old offensive player and sacrifice picks and prospects, then I might agree with you but whatever the rumours are, it didn't happen in the REALITY. Would you be against another Bobby Ryan type of trade? I certainly wouldn't and IMO that's exactly what this team needs to reach another level. We were forced into trading Spezza but you always want to get quality for quantity...

Finally, last year pick up of Hemsky was really cheap (a 3rd and a 5th in a very weak draft), and it was a good attempt to fight for the playoffs (finished out 5 pts away) and to find a Winger to play with Spezza, but unfortunately Spezza still didn't want to stay. If Spezza stays, Hemsky signs and it's a huge Win for the team... Unfortunately, the 5th was added to save money but what can you do? The Sens are poor compared to some other teams. That's the reality you have to live with if you want to be a fan of this team. If not, just choose Habs, Leafs or Rangers, you'll never have money problems.

EDIT : Wait the 3rd is in this year draft? Well, that hurt a little bit more but still not a huge deal. Sens have tons of prospects already, what they need is an elite offensive forward, preferably a Center. And of course, an upgrade/continuation on Methot. The rest is more fine tuning of the roster and experience.

Oh and almost forgot... MacLean... I'm not behind the scenes but in my understanding is that his messages simply wasn't going through with the players anymore. At some point you realize it and have to do something about it. Or maybe you want a bad atmosphere and more players asking to be traded? I dunno and we'll seriously never know...

I'm hoping Cameron is on a try-out basis until the end of the season. Don't think he has a long term contract. If he does great, then lock him up a few years, but seriously he most important and what I care is that if he is good with young players. That's really all I care.

 

[DylanSensFan]

The simple answer is dress Andrew "3 goals in 30 seconds" Hammond for the rest of the season.

But doing so kills the spirit of the team.


Speaking of spirit, man did the team look defeated during this game. Every face on that bench looked like they were told their dogs were shot.

That's not good.

From what I saw, it looked a little like Anderson shat the bed tonight. Lehner was not much better... Ottawa just had one of those nights where they got beat up on. It is time for them to pick their sulky arses up and start playing hockey again. Lazar in... Greening sits, hell they should just put Greening on waivers -- FK it!

 

[L'Aveuglette]

From what I saw, it looked a little like Anderson shat the bed tonight. Lehner was not much better... Ottawa just had one of those nights where they got beat up on. It is time for them to pick their sulky arses up and start playing hockey again. Lazar in... Greening sits, hell they should just put Greening on waivers -- FK it!

No one will pick up Greening on waivers. That's the sad truth.

 

[Xspyrit]

This. Their goalie outplayed ours, plain and simple.

What are you saying? When the Sens win it's because Andy is awesome, and when the Sens lose it's because they suck

Are you new around here?

And we got the snot beat out of us in almost every other aspect of the game.

I guess small victories ease the pain?

At the beginning of the season, this board sounded like shots against was the be all... Ironic no?

If the Avs play like that when they win imagine how they play when they lose. Jesus.

good one

They won it "Habs style"... well more the Habs of the last few years though... they aren't getting outclassed as much this year.

I thought the Avs outskated us, I thought they transitioned better than we did, I thought they contained our shots to low-percentage perimeter shots very well.

Well... you might want to check the highlights again, and this too :

http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/gamecast?gameId=400564054

In black, it's Sens shots location. So many point blank shots.

What has baffled me is that this defense was reliant on Marc Methot playing heavy minutes. When it became evident that he was going to be out long term, why was Murray so inactive in trying to replace his minutes.

Was he truly delusional in believing that one of the young guys would pick up the slack? Was Phillips going to fill in?

It's stuff like this that makes me question if Murray really knows what he's doing anymore.

Have you ever worked for a big company? They are already at the budget set for this year. It's set in stone. I'm pretty sure financial priority is to pay debt loans this year and save on operations.

I don't see how Murray could acquire a good defenseman without paying a HEAVY price and without taking money back. There's no options out there, the first is not available as well as Lazar, Ceci and Zibanejad

Murray's got cancer so yeah he's getting close to not really know what he is doing anymore. The man is about to die by the way. They have to change him but you have to wait after the season, there's a thing called respect. I hope people will let him die in peace. Enough with Murray bashing.

It's not just that they left, it's just that management hasn't done enough to replace what each of those players brought.

I still say our biggest loss was Gonchar. He was clearly past his prime when he left, but they needed to replace him with a steady veteran.

I really wish Murray worked harder to get a guy like Dan Boyle. An Ottawa guy who could have sheltered our young defense.

That, I can agree... because it's more reasonable and well thought that your other posts on this. But the point was to have Methot-Karlsson, Cowen-Ceci, Phillips/Boro-Gryba. It was the defense anticipated at this point in time. The team obviously isn't going ALL-IN for the Cup this year, but strangely, that seems only obvious to me. This board makes me feel like an alien or something

Some pretty good positives tonight but no one wants to talk about it.

This board is way too deep into paranoia and self defeating disorder. Forget about that this year.

What's incredible is that finishing bottom-10 this season could be a huge blessing in disguise as to who the Sens will draft but people choose to cry, moan and bark at every ******* occasion... it's so annoying but oh well, don't have any other place to share my passion for the Sens. I am still trying. And I'm out. Nights

 

[DylanSensFan]

No one will pick up Greening on waivers. That's the sad truth.

Then he plays in Bingo. Do not care... bad contract, player is done.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

If it's a bottom 5 team then we really don't have a good foundation and will fall to the bottom eventually (see Leafs last year). No amount of goaltending can prevent that eventuality. They will fall. IF they are that bad.

If they are as bad as your last post suggest then there is no good foundation and there is no need to jettison quality players to "tank". I'm not sure what you think of this team. Either we have a decent core or we don't.

So you're basically suggesting that we trade Anderson for Scrivens and just run with him? OK. Here goes. This would:

1) Be terrible asset management
2) Send the worst possible message to Robin Lehner and the rest of the team
3) Almost certainly draw the ire of the entire NHL resulting in: no trade avenues, adverse attention from the league and refs and make us THE WORST FA DESTINATION

All in the hope of finishing 5th last and drafting who exactly?

Scrivens was an example comparing us to Edmonton. I have stated that this is a good foundation for a cup contender. Turris / zib in the 2/3 holes. Cowen ceci second pairing. A strong young goalie. Great support in MacArthur and Ryan. But right now. This team is not a contender. And in the future. This team as is. (A future Turris and zib )isn't either.

I have made my poairion clear. We are not a very good team. But in a few years with Turris and zib in the 2 3 holes behind a true 1 center. We can be.

We are winning the draft lottery anyway. So I dono why I talk tank

 

[dingbatz]

What's incredible is that finishing bottom-10 this season could be a huge blessing in disguise as to who the Sens will draft but people choose to cry, moan and bark at every ******* occasion... it's so annoying

This sounds like crying/moaning/barking.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Then he plays in Bingo. Do not care... bad contract, player is done.

Don't think Murray and Melnyk are willing to take that hit, which is why Greening hasn't gone on waivers most likely.

 

[Super Cake]

Don't think Murray and Melnyk are willing to take that hit, which is why Greening hasn't gone on waivers most likely.

Too bad we can't trade him for future considerations.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

This team would be better without SPezza they said.

We'd be worse. Which in hindsight is not that bad considering the draft pick we'd get.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

We'd be worse. Which in hindsight is not that bad considering the draft pick we'd get.

I was a huge advocate for trading Spezza, but I wouldn't go that far at all. We'd probably be in the same exact spot.

 

[Push540]

We'd be worse. Which in hindsight is not that bad considering the draft pick we'd get.

How would we be worse with Spezza still on the team?

 

[Xspyrit]

We were fumbling around. Poor passes, couldn't convert scoring chances. Turris was awful. Cowen was awful. A smattering of players were just getting beat, couldn't stop passes from getting through etc. We had a lot of weak shots and we were a dollar and a day late all game.

Maybe Andy gave up a weak goal on the 2nd one but we were lack luster for the whole game. Cameron shouting "pace, pace" from the bench all night.

We never had a chance to win, to many mistakes. Look at the intermission talk. "simple, basic mistake are killing Ottawa". What else is there to say?

Exactly. Also, there was a lot effort and hard work at display. Lots of aggressive forecheck resulting in turnovers and sustained pressure in the O-zone. Pageau exemplified this. Even our 4th line played well. Bizarrely, the least visible player might have been Hoffman this time.

Our defense transitioned really well. Passes were crisp, other than the Turris pass behind the net that Wiercioch couldn't handle and that lead to a goal against. Karlsson was stellar. Cowen was a boss again.

Sometimes bounces go against you. This was one of those nights. We deserved to win. We still need some playmaking and better finishing touch by our forwards though (looking at Turris, Ziba, Chiasson, MacArthur).

Read these 2 posts and tell me how reliable HF posters are at calling this game of hockey?

People should realize that it's a choice you make. You choose to be cynical and die like this, or choose to see both sides of the medal and live in reality. You could choose to only see the positive too but I don't think it's even possible in the world we live in.

Ok I stop lol

 

[Tundraman]

And that's not adding the contracts of guys like Smith and Greening who aren't worth close to their current salaries. If you also included Phillips and Neil, you'd have nearly $11 million in money to spend elsewhere.

For a cash-strapped team, that's huge.

True it adds up but I only said Michalek and Legwand and left those guys off because they were done deals before last summer's July UFA date.

Greening was definitely a huge misjudgement based on such a small sample. His game dived as soon as he signed.

Phillips must be a good poker player. I still marvel at how he hooked BM into re-signing him twice by playing with the numbers and then after getting a commitment to negotiate he managed to extract more dollars and terms than were originally leaked.

Neil signed when toughness was at a premium. I won't begrudge his pay. He does his job. He still makes guys look over their shoulders. If anything he might have gotten one year too many on his deal but even so his contract is not really the problem.

As a centre Smith was expected to play no less than on the 3rd line but he regressed and doesn't produce enough to be more than a 4th line centre. I was taken aback when he said now that he's older he doesn't have to fight anymore. His skating looks slower and not as hard going in on the forecheck too. Maybe the two are connected so he can avoid confrontations or maybe Greening's superior intelligence rubbed off on him. Either way he seems not to be playing the body as hard as he used to. If he doesn't score and doesn't soften the other team's D then his value really drops. Any cheap rookie could fill a few minutes of ice time and accomplish nothing but at least the rookie has growth potential.

Going back to Michalek BM should have realized there wasn't much interest in Michalek when UFA day came and no one signed him. I doubt he had more than a couple of one year lets-see-what-you-can-do offers on the table. Not that it would have helped much now but I'll bet BM could have easily shaved a year and 1 million off his contract without blinking an eye and still beat everybody else.

Legwand was an extra piece added after all of the other commitments. BM should have asked himself why Detroit didn't re-sign him or why Nashville didn't take him back after trading him. After all Nashville would have the guy back for nothing. Pretty sweet deal. BM probably gave him the best contract no one else would have. In spite of what others thought if BM was still bent on signing him he likely could have shaved 1 year and close to 1 more million off that contract.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I was a huge advocate for trading Spezza, but I wouldn't go that far at all. We'd probably be in the same exact spot.

If we had Spezza and Hemsky we'd likely be in a much, much better position

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Scrivens was an example comparing us to Edmonton. I have stated that this is a good foundation for a cup contender. Turris / zib in the 2/3 holes. Cowen ceci second pairing. A strong young goalie. Great support in MacArthur and Ryan. But right now. This team is not a contender. And in the future. This team as is. (A future Turris and zib )isn't either.

I have made my poairion clear. We are not a very good team. But in a few years with Turris and zib in the 2 3 holes behind a true 1 center. We can be.

We are winning the draft lottery anyway. So I dono why I talk tank

But you keep suggesting that we tank. You mix that with sarcastic remarks hinting that we'd never be Edmonton. I want to know exactly how we accomplish this without giving up our core players. The players that help us win games this season.

I agree that we aren't a top notch team but without giving up the likes of Karlsson, Ryan, etc. how do we become so bad that we're in the same draft category as the Oilers without becoming a team like the Oilers?

 

[Super Cake]

If we had Spezza and Hemsky we'd likely be in a much, much better position

Just imagine if we Alfie, Spezza, Ryan and Hemsky.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Biancosaurus hates this team I wouldn't bother trying to get him/her to be able to explain his/her position rationally

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

How would we be worse with Spezza still on the team?

The guy has 28 points on a stacked Dallas team.

Turris: 27 points and muchhhhhhhh better defense

Zibanejad: 18 points in 2 less games but muchhhh better defense and is getting experience

Spezza on this team would be worse. He didn't click with Ryan anyway so I unno who his linemates gonna be, probably Hoffman and Stone but both excel better with faster linemates while Spezza is s-l-o-w now.

Spezza would probably have 25-28ish points with terrible d, slow game, brutal "lead by example" play and taking up a roster spot instead of giving it to a guy like Zibanejad to gain experience.

I unno how anyone could want Spezza. We need a 1st line center, definitely. It's not Spezza though, looool stop kidding yourselves.

 

[Push540]

Read these 2 posts and tell me how reliable HF posters are at calling this game of hockey?

People should realize that it's a choice you make. You choose to be cynical and die like this, or choose to see both sides of the medal and live in reality. You could choose to only see the positive too but I don't think it's even possible in the world we live in.

Ok I stop lol

If dr. easy was correct, we wouldn't have lost 5-2 to a .500 team.

Also the commentators wouldn't have been slagging the Sens during the intermissions.

 

[Push540]

Spezza would probably have 25-28ish points with terrible d, slow game, brutal "lead by example" play and taking up a roster spot instead of giving it to a guy like Zibanejad to gain experience.

With those projected points, he would be leading the team with a few other players. How does that make the team worse?

Zibby has 10 points less than your projection for Spezza, so in your own words, Spezza is better than the guy you picked to replace him. Zibby has a looong way to go before he is a solid all around player in the NHL.

And 28 points would have gotten us some wins for sure.

So, the team would be better with Spezza still on it. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[HSF]

The guy has 28 points on a stacked Dallas team.

Turris: 27 points and muchhhhhhhh better defense

Zibanejad: 18 points in 2 less games but muchhhh better defense and is getting experience

Spezza on this team would be worse. He didn't click with Ryan anyway so I unno who his linemates gonna be, probably Hoffman and Stone but both excel better with faster linemates while Spezza is s-l-o-w now.

Spezza would probably have 25-28ish points with terrible d, slow game, brutal "lead by example" play and taking up a roster spot instead of giving it to a guy like Zibanejad to gain experience.

I unno how anyone could want Spezza. We need a 1st line center, definitely. It's not Spezza though, looool stop kidding yourselves.

dallas definitely is not 'stacked' and turris' defense is overrated imo. He is slighty above average but nothing special he is no bergeron or toews in his own end

Turris is definitely better then spezza in his own end but spezza makes up for it in the offensive zone his creativity and ablility to possess the puck and faceoffs is something we really need which turris struggles with

 

[Alf Silfversson]

If dr. easy was correct, we wouldn't have lost 5-2 to a .500 team.

Also the commentators wouldn't have been slagging the Sens during the intermissions.

The in-game commentators (watching the game live) made numerous references to the sens carrying the play territorially. Who to believe?

Another poster already posted the breakdown of where the scoring chances came from for both teams and it was pretty obvious that the Sens were around the Avs net more than the other way around.

But believe what you want. Every objective measure of this game shows that the Sens were the better team except for goals/goaltending.

 

[DylanSensFan]

How would we be worse with Spezza still on the team?

1. we would not have room for other players to develop.
2. have you looked at the standings in the west
3. have you specifically looked at the Dallas Stars who have Seguin and Spezza as top 2 centers.

 

[Xamar*]

Hoenstly I just want to see the kids play hard, win or lose. This season is done so its more of a growing experience for the boys, I just want everyone to get equal opportunity to see who we need in the future and who we don't. It's alot different than cheering for a loss, im just cheering for hard work win or loose.