News Article: Sens announce changes in Hockey Ops

[AchtzehnBaby]

Not accepting a job because you know you can't work effectively with one of the other execs isn't unprofessional, it's common sense.

Accepting the job knowing it would immediately lead to power struggles and conflict not in the best interest of the org would be unprofessional.

Why try to spin this into something it isn't? Assuming Alfie is holding out until Dorion is gone, the most likely rationale would be he doesn't see it as a good fit for him to join the existing exec team. That's not a slight against either guy, just an acknowledgement that not everyone works well together.

I definitely am not the one trying to spin it.

First thing they ask you in a leadership role is how you deal with people. If you cannot deal with your colleagues you are not a leader.

That is pure playground logic.

 

[umma gumma]

Not accepting a job because you know you can't work effectively with one of the other execs isn't unprofessional, it's common sense.

Accepting the job knowing it would immediately lead to power struggles and conflict not in the best interest of the org would be unprofessional.

Why try to spin this into something it isn't? Assuming Alfie is holding out until Dorion is gone, the most likely rationale would be he doesn't see it as a good fit for him to join the existing exec team. That's not a slight against either guy, just an acknowledgement that not everyone works well together.

Pretty much. No torch and pitchforks here.

 

[Tragedy]

Thought it was interesting to hear Friedman say that people don't think Alfredsson is going to take a big role with the Sens, then sort of imply that maybe Andlauer doesn't really want him? At least that's how I interpreted his comment about celebrity.

I think you're reading too much into that comment. Friedman was talking about how Andlauer was the only big bid that didn't leverage celebrity power. (No Reynolds, no Weeknd, no Snoop Dogg and co. etc..) He wasn't talking about celebrity of Daniel Alfredsson (As much as we love him, he's no international celebrity lol)

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

Dorion treats people who work under him like shit. That's why Alfredsson would need to have a very specific role (in which he doesn't report to Dorion), or he won't do it. That or Dorion being out.

When you're a young person trying to carve out a career (see: Bowness) or down to your last chance (see: McGuire), you'll put up with shit.

When you're someone who's made tens of millions in the game, is widely respected in the community, and don't actually need the job... you won't.

Personally, I don't see an Alfredsson hire happening until next summer. I think the first "big change" will be Staios brought in to "evaluate hockey ops" (i.e. in a role above Dorion). He'll get some vague title like "Senior Advisor", reporting directly to Andlauer, and will take the next 6-7 months to decide whether the GM in place stays or goes.

 

[bert]

If anything, this suggests bigger changes aren't coming. Andlauer is expected to get the keys this week. Why would Dorion have the go-ahead to hire more of his own guys if he wasn't sticking around?

Why do you think dorion is making all these decisions?

Can't root for or like the Sens unless you like DJ and Dorion .

What if you like one and not the other?.... What say you then.... Gonna be hard for the 'defenders' and 'haters' to wrap their heads around and vice versa.

Maybe just maybe everyone is simply entitled their own opinion. However given the teams lack of success it's truly something in my opinion to come to the conclusion that defending the current staff makes you a true fan of the team or not.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Why do you think dorion is making all these decisions?


What if you like one and not the other?.... What day you then....

Better ask BigHockey at recess.

 

[Micklebot]

I definitely am not the one trying to spin it.

First thing they ask you in a leadership role is how you deal with people. If you cannot deal with your colleagues you are not a leader.

That is pure playground logic.

First thing anyone competent does before accepting a job is figure out if the job and the team is a good fit, if it isn't,move on,

If course dealing with people is basic stuff for leadership roles, you need to be able to play well with others, but in the real world there are people out there that clash regardless of how well you deal with others, and if you know another person in the group clashes with you from past experience, that job may not be a fit, in real life, you may just opt not to go there, but I guess in make believe land recognizing a poor fit is somehow a character flaw...

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

First thing anyone competent does before accepting a job is figure out if the job and the team is a good fit, if it isn't,move on,

If course dealing with people is basic stuff for leadership roles, you need to be able to play well with others, but in the real world there are people out there that clash regardless of how well you deal with others, and if you know another person in the group clashes with you from past experience, that job may not be a fit, in real life, you may just opt not to go there, but I guess in make believe land recognizing a poor fit is somehow a character flaw...

@AchtzehnBaby speaks like someone who "takes" jobs but doesn't "choose" jobs.

The reality is, evaluating "fit" is incredibly important for any high-level opportunity or hire. And a big part of that is deciding whether you can effectively work with the other leaders at the org.

Why was it so hard for Elon Musk to find a competent CEO for Twitter/X? Because a large portion of qualified people had no interest in working with him.

 

[Cosmix]

I suspect DJ has a few months to keep his job, if the Sens have a terrible start like they have in the last few years I'm sure he gets tossed. I bet PD has the full season, if they make the playoffs he probably keeps his job

I think PD is on the same slab of ice as DJ.

 

[Senator Stanley]

Why do you think dorion is making all these decisions?


What if you like one and not the other?.... What say you then.... Gonna be hard for the 'defenders' and 'haters' to wrap their heads around and vice versa.

Maybe just maybe everyone is simply entitled their own opinion. However given the teams lack of success it's truly something in my opinion to come to the conclusion that defending the current staff makes you a true fan of the team or not.

The implication being that Andlauer is behind these moves? I can see Tierney being Andlauer's influence, given their history. I think it's far more likely that the changes to pro scouting and the Belleville staff are Dorion, though.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Dorion treats people who work under him like shit. That's why Alfredsson would need to have a very specific role (in which he doesn't report to Dorion), or he won't do it. That or Dorion being out.

When you're a young person trying to carve out a career (see: Bowness) or down to your last chance (see: McGuire), you'll put up with shit.

When you're someone who's made tens of millions in the game, is widely respected in the community, and don't actually need the job... you won't.

Personally, I don't see an Alfredsson hire happening until next summer. I think the first "big change" will be Staios brought in to "evaluate hockey ops" (i.e. in a role above Dorion). He'll get some vague title like "Senior Advisor", reporting directly to Andlauer, and will take the next 6-7 months to decide whether the GM in place stays or goes.

Do you have some specific information on this? I never have heard anything other than on HFSens that PD is a mean guy.

Is there anything ever stated in an article?

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

First thing anyone competent does before accepting a job is figure out if the job and the team is a good fit, if it isn't,move on,

If course dealing with people is basic stuff for leadership roles, you need to be able to play well with others, but in the real world there are people out there that clash regardless of how well you deal with others, and if you know another person in the group clashes with you from past experience, that job may not be a fit, in real life, you may just opt not to go there, but I guess in make believe land recognizing a poor fit is somehow a character flaw...

First off, they are not in a power struggle for a role. Alfie is not a GM at any level.

Secondly, it takes two to tango. Red flag for me. I don’t hire people that can’t manage their emotions, nor work things out

Thirdly, as I stated off the top, this is all a false narrative

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

Do you have some specific information on this? I never have heard anything other than on HFSens that PD is a mean guy.

Is there anything ever stated in an article?

I don't think he's a "mean" guy in that he's going into the lunch room and eating other people's sandwiches.

But I have heard he's a very socially awkward person, and from the few interactions I've had with him at events, I can confirm that. He comes off as aloof and as someone who's "above" you, whereas a guy like Bryan Murray was the opposite.

That's not really what I'm talking about though – since many GMs are the same way. Kelly McCrimmon, for example, is a well-known dick that many people dislike. He's not a warm social butterfly. But he's a Stanley Cup champion.

I was talking more about how he very much let's the people in the org know that he's the one in charge, and it's his way or the highway. He's "the boss", which is a line he's used many times in interviews. The Sens front office isn't very collaborative and Dorion often dismisses other people's opinions.

From what I've heard, that rubbed Alfredsson the wrong way in his first go-round, and one of the reasons he left.

He doesn't want to be a mascot. He wants actual input into decisions. And Dorion isn't likely to let anyone else in, unless he's forced to by the owner (i.e. when Melnyk hired McGuire). But even then, Dorion will work to cut that person out as soon as he can.

Dorion wants to keep the front-office small and wants to be the czar. Alfredsson doesn't want to be part of that type of structure.

 

[Micklebot]

First off, they are not in a power struggle for a role. Alfie is not a GM at any level.

Never said power struggle for a role, but if you want to affect change within the scope of your role and you know someone on the team doesn't share you vision, that may not be the place for you. I never said Alfie was a GM, but if he's going to join a team it's because he wants to be a part of it and drive positive change

Secondly, it takes two to tango. Red flag for me. I don’t hire people that can’t manage their emotions.

Nobody said anything about not being able to manage emotions, what I said is he may not see himself as a fit in the current group. That could be because they have visions for the club that are mutually exclusive, it could be because Dorion is the one who creates conflict, it could be he wants to be in a position where he has an established mentor as opposed to someone less experienced. He may just not want to work with that group which is by no means a character flaw or a red flag, it shows a degree of self awareness to recognize whether or not you and an org will succeed together.

Thirdly, as I stated off the top, this is all a false narrative

What's the false narrative, all that was posted was Alfie would come on after Dorion was gone, you've injected a rationalethat implies the only reason that would be the case is if Alfiehas a character flaw. It could be the other way around and he's staying out because Dorion has the character flaw or, as I suggested, it could just be a matter of Alfie not seeing it as a good fit for them specifically to work together.

You don't need rip on Alfie to defend Dorion here, they can recognize not being a good fit to work together while still both being quality execs in their perspective roles.

 

[BankStreetParade]

I don't think he's a "mean" guy in that he's going into the lunch room and eating other people's sandwiches.

But I have heard he's a very socially awkward person, and from the few interactions I've had with him at events, I can confirm that. He comes off as aloof and as someone who's "above" you, whereas a guy like Bryan Murray was the opposite.

That's not really what I'm talking about though – since many GMs are the same way. Kelly McCrimmon, for example, is a well-known dick that many people dislike. He's not a warm social butterfly. But he's a Stanley Cup champion.

I was talking more about how he very much let's the people in the org know that he's the one in charge, and it's his way or the highway. He's "the boss", which is a line he's used many times in interviews. The Sens front office isn't very collaborative and Dorion often dismisses other people's opinions.

From what I've heard, that rubbed Alfredsson the wrong way in his first go-round, and one of the reasons he left.

He doesn't want to be a mascot. He wants actual input into decisions. And Dorion isn't likely to let anyone else in, unless he's forced to by the owner (i.e. when Melnyk hired McGuire). But even then, Dorion will work to cut that person out as soon as he can.

Dorion wants to keep the front-office small and wants to be the czar. Alfredsson doesn't want to be part of that type of structure.

So Ryan Bowness left a great situation in Pittsburgh to come to a small market team with limited resources where he would get talked down to all the time?

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

So Ryan Bowness left a great situation in Pittsburgh to come to a small market team with limited resources where he would get talked down to all the time?

A) It wasn't a great situation in Pittsburgh. There was a ton of front-office turmoil there, as evidenced by them completely cleaning everyone out this summer.

B) Ryan Bowness, at this stage of his career, is taking what he can get. He probably saw the signs in Pittsburgh and jumped somewhere else.

Don't take it personally. Pierre Dorion may end up winning a Stanley Cup here, and he'll deserve credit for putting the team together. But he's not someone who's easy to work with. That won't change.

When you're talking about GMs and former players, there are a lot of big egos involved. Dorion thinks he's the smartest person in the room and players should stick to playing. Alfredsson thinks he's a nerd who's never played the game and doesn't understand a locker room.

It is what it is. They probably won't ever work together.

If the team gets off to an amazing start this year, it probably means that Dorion stays in charge and Alfredsson remains on the sidelines. If the team sucks, Dorion will be out and Alfredsson will consider coming back, depending on who the next GM is.

We'll see where we're at in January. The team's record will determine what happens with this front-office.

 

[bert]

The implication being that Andlauer is behind these moves? I can see Tierney being Andlauer's influence, given their history. I think it's far more likely that the changes to pro scouting and the Belleville staff are Dorion, though.

Everything is going through Andlauer now, so if its happening he is saying its ok.

 

[Micklebot]

When you're talking about GMs and former players, there are a lot of big egos involved. Dorion thinks he's the smartest person in the room and players should stick to playing. Alfredsson thinks he's a nerd who's never played the game and doesn't understand a locker room.

Ironically, the locker room dynamic is often cited as a big positive for the club currently.

Idk what Alfie thinks of Dorion, or whether he's tough to work with, but as someone who has the luxury of choosing where he wants to work or whether he wants to work at all, he can be picky and wait for the right opportunity.

 

[Senator Stanley]

Everything is going through Andlauer now, so if its happening he is saying its ok.

I'm not sure what we're arguing about. My original point was that the timing of these decisions, which, whether Andlauer is signing off or not, seem to be coming from Dorion, would suggest that Dorion will be remaining in charge for the time being.

At this point, I would be surprised if Dorion and DJ don't get to see how this season plays out.

 

[bert]

Do you have some specific information on this? I never have heard anything other than on HFSens that PD is a mean guy.

Is there anything ever stated in an article?

Where else do you get your information?... Why do you think so many people have the same information? Have you not noticed how every single person he has worked with has been fired?.... I wouldnt say he is mean, I think he is insecure. He cant work with others.

First off, they are not in a power struggle for a role. Alfie is not a GM at any level.

Secondly, it takes two to tango. Red flag for me. I don’t hire people that can’t manage their emotions, nor work things out

Thirdly, as I stated off the top, this is all a false narrative

Its not false. But you clearly have some sort of connection to Melnyk/Dorion. So you would say something like this.

 

[bert]

I'm not sure what we're arguing about. My original point was that the timing of these decisions, which, whether Andlauer is signing off or not, seem to be coming from Dorion, would suggest that Dorion will be remaining in charge for the time being.

At this point, I would be surprised if Dorion and DJ don't get to see how this season plays out.

I think we are just in a discussion . I dont think DJ and Dorion are necessarily tied to one another here. I think we will see a new person running the hockey ops very soon. Which makes me wonder who is making all these decisions. The new GM/President wont waste a bullet in the chamber replacing the coach right away without taking a good hard look at all aspects of the team.

So Ryan Bowness left a great situation in Pittsburgh to come to a small market team with limited resources where he would get talked down to all the time?

I wouldnt be suprised to see Bowness survive whatever happens in the next couple of months. He has experience and they will likely want some continuity in the organization from a management perspective. He also has a longstanding relationship with Alfredsson that dates way back.

 

[TeamRenzo]

I'm not sure what we're arguing about. My original point was that the timing of these decisions, which, whether Andlauer is signing off or not, seem to be coming from Dorion, would suggest that Dorion will be remaining in charge for the time being.

At this point, I would be surprised if Dorion and DJ don't get to see how this season plays out.

Thats why I think PD gets until the end of the season and hinges on if they make the postseason. This is supposed to be our year to compete.

If Sens are way out in Feb he may get axed so they can bring someone else in to handle deadline trades.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Dorion has raised that point many times that he likes to keep the decision makers' room small. Always struck me as Melnyk cover and assumed they just couldn't afford to fill the room, and especially with people that deserved to be there and would be paid accordingly, but maybe Dorion really did just want it small to have more authority since Melnyk was the one that went over his head and had Maguire brought in.

 

[CostPerRebuild]

I've seen this comment many times now, do people actually think that
1. The hiring of McGuire was a good thing
2. That his instant firing when Euge was still lukewarm a bad thing

Baffles my mind