Speculation: Sell , Sell , Sell

[BobbyJet]

No one wants to trade Keith. However, emotional decisions are no way to run a business. The hardest thing to do in sports management is separating with an aging star. It's how we eneded up with Seabrook for 5.5 more years. Heck, I wasn't that against the deal because I thought it would bring is another Cup or two at the time. I was WRONG.

If you think Keith can help the Hawks contend next year, I'm all for it. 2020-2021 gets a bit dicey, but I can deal with that to if you think the Hawks are legitimate contenders.

We're always holding management accountable to responsible decisions. What is management's plan? I'm starting to think this is a longer rebuild than expected.

Everyone knows Keith is a freak of nature. If his knees hold out I can see him playing until 40 and beyond, in a diminished role obviously. Right now he does plenty that is right but it is often taken for granted. He remains one of this team's bargains and we're lucky to have him. If he were shopped tomorrow there would be plenty of takers.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

No argument, just getting the facts right. I made a simple statement of fact. piteous is having a problem with me correcting him (erroneous statement twice). He should just move on.

DK is getting paid less than $5.5m per year the last six years of his contract, including this year. Also, cap hit vs salary does have importance to some teams.

I get there’s a difference, but don’t context clues show he meant cap hit?

I don’t think he was being intentionally misleading

 

[LDF]

No one wants to trade Keith. However, emotional decisions are no way to run a business. The hardest thing to do in sports management is separating with an aging star. It's how we eneded up with Seabrook for 5.5 more years. Heck, I wasn't that against the deal because I thought it would bring is another Cup or two at the time. I was WRONG.

If you think Keith can help the Hawks contend next year, I'm all for it. 2020-2021 gets a bit dicey, but I can deal with that to if you think the Hawks are legitimate contenders.

We're always holding management accountable to responsible decisions. What is management's plan? I'm starting to think this is a longer rebuild than expected.

no offense but who cares if we hold anyone accountable. it is not going to change anything. the only person who needs to care is the owner. this team and loyalty is the driving force for this state. emotional decision, yeah you bet, but it is the owner giving that decision for not firing SB and a main reason is b/c of the presence of Scotty Bowman and those 3 SC's.

 

[LDF]

Keith is a recapture. I seriously think the only way he goes anywhere is via the Hossa/Pronger route.

When it comes to them both Keith & Seabrook honestly I think we'll have more clarity come September 2019. If the NHL/NHLPA ops out the the CBA I'm expecting at least one compliance buy-out.

don't take this the wrong way, but as of now on this date, we as fans have to wait til Sept 2019...... this team needs fixing now.

 

[LDF]

It signals you are trying to get better. We aren’t exactly doing anything with Crawford in goal now. Fans arent that stupid, they can see what the team is. Are there really fans out there thinking we are competing for something this year or even next?

yeah me, to pick 1st in the draft.

 

[LDF]

Keith isn’t being paid $5.5m, that’s his cap hit. The last three years he’s being paid 2.65, 2.1 and 1.5m.

that is b/c the org front loaded the contract via loop holes in the cap but for the life of me, i still can't figure out that rule.

 

[clydesdale line]

So, Powers says Panarin is open to returning and people want to trade anisimov?

I don't know about that......

I say I don't know because he and his countrymen Panarin are really close.. not sure Breadman would like to see his guy shipped out if he signs here again. Then again, it's a business... I guess we'll see.

I am not sure about high end skill set, what exactly with him do you see that is high end? I haven't focused on him much the past few years, I need more than the one game so far to really see one way or another..

His hockey sense is incredible and his hands are really, really good. Haven't seen the great vision Yotes fans were labeling just yet, but it's supposedly pretty high end too.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

I say I don't know because he and his countrymen Panarin are really close.. not sure Breadman would like to see his guy shipped out if he signs here again. Then again, it's a business... I guess we'll see.



His hockey sense is incredible and his hands are really, really good. Haven't seen the great vision Yotes fans were labeling just yet, but it's supposedly pretty high end too.

That pass he had to Gus on the garbage time goal, not sure if he saw Gus and knew where he needed to pass the puck or if it was a blind center pass but if it was vision then that was a bit of a display...

 

[clydesdale line]

That pass he had to Gus on the garbage time goal, not sure if he saw Gus and knew where he needed to pass the puck or if it was a blind center pass but if it was vision then that was a bit of a display...

I was thinking that too, but it could also just be him throwing it at an area.. although that displays his hockey sense right there.

 

[SotasicA]

You guys are funny. You think Crawford and Anisimov have any trade value. Let alone being able to "pry a first rounder" from Buffalo or something using them, instead of having to add a sweetener to just get rid of either.

Just like when people wanted Bickell to be traded. "For assets".

Hawks don't have cap issues, so there's no point in trading away negative assets. What the Hawks could do, since they are not contenders, is to acquire a bad contract or two and get some picks doing so.

Or, you know, just sell Kane. He's got trade value. Nobody wants Crow or Anisimov. They are bums. Expensive, old bums.

 

[Fortyfives]

Crawford would definitely fetch picks or assets.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

You guys are funny. You think Crawford and Anisimov have any trade value. Let alone being able to "pry a first rounder" from Buffalo or something using them, instead of having to add a sweetener to just get rid of either.

Just like when people wanted Bickell to be traded. "For assets".

Hawks don't have cap issues, so there's no point in trading away negative assets. What the Hawks could do, since they are not contenders, is to acquire a bad contract or two and get some picks doing so.

Or, you know, just sell Kane. He's got trade value. Nobody wants Crow or Anisimov. They are bums. Expensive, old bums.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

You guys are funny. You think Crawford and Anisimov have any trade value. Let alone being able to "pry a first rounder" from Buffalo or something using them, instead of having to add a sweetener to just get rid of either.

Just like when people wanted Bickell to be traded. "For assets".

Hawks don't have cap issues, so there's no point in trading away negative assets. What the Hawks could do, since they are not contenders, is to acquire a bad contract or two and get some picks doing so.

Or, you know, just sell Kane. He's got trade value. Nobody wants Crow or Anisimov. They are bums. Expensive, old bums.

Shit, I had to ice my hand after burning myself on your scaldingly hot take.

A little warning next time would be nice!

 

[Section88]

Goalies can play till their pretty old. 34 isnt too bad. Id say he might have one more cup run in him. how about nalimov or whatever his name is for a replacement?
Edit - just look him up, coming to the hawks roster tocstart the 19-20 season. We share a birthday, im already a fan

 

[Bubba88]

I would love to know the solution in goal going forward if we trade Crawford.

Ward Forsberg Delia to finish the season. Offseason to take care of.
Won't compete next year, can use the Cap Space on a Panarin or Duchene.

 

[Bubba88]

Why do you want to

Would Boston give up draft picks for Keith? Duncan Keith grew up as a Bruins fan. Maybe he'll waive his NTC? Would Toronto have interest in Keith. Ontario wouldn't be a bad destination for a hockey lifer.

I could see a legtimate contender giving up a LATE first rounder for Anisimov. However, it will have to come closer to the deadline.

Why do you want to trade Keith this bad?
Why do you think Toews and Kane will not get dealt but Keith who signed a retirement contract 2010 will?

 

[piteus]

No argument, just getting the facts right. I made a simple statement of fact. piteous is having a problem with me correcting him (erroneous statement twice). He should just move on.

DK is getting paid less than $5.5m per year the last six years of his contract, including this year. Also, cap hit vs salary does have importance to some teams.

So please tell me why "salary" has IMPROTANCE to the Hawks?!?! Do you actually think Keith is going to waive his NTC to go to Arizona? I wrote that perhaps Boston or Toronto would be interested. I don't think they have any liquidity issues.

I don't think anyone EXCEPT you believes I was talking about actual cash when it comes Keith's $5.5mn cap hit. Again ... what are you actually trying to argue? Duncan Keith is going to waive his NTC to play with some cash strapped team to end his career?

I don't have a problem with the facts. I have a problem with your common sense.

 

[piteus]

Why do you want to

Why do you want to trade Keith this bad?
Why do you think Toews and Kane will not get dealt but Keith who signed a retirement contract 2010 will?

1. Kane and Toews CAP HIT is $10.5mn vs. Keith at $5.5mn.
2. Kane and Toews are younger.
3. Does Keith want go through a potential long rebuilding process?

NO ONE wants to trade Keith. However, ask yourself what's best for both parties?
* Has the Hawks timeline for the rebuild changed? Will it take longer?
* How will Keith perform at 37, 38, and 39 years of age?
* Can the Hawks pay $12.3mn for a third line pairing for '21, '22, '23 seasons?

The issue with Duncan Keith is Brent Seabrook. Because of Seabrook's contract ... can we afford to keep Duncan Keith at the latter end of his contract? Unless there is an amnesty clause, we're not getting rid of Seabrook's contract. There's a chance we can move Duncan Keith's contract ... especially if the timeline for the rebuild has changed.

For every action, there is a reaction. For every bad contract there is a reaction. If we keep both Seabrook and Keith's contract, the Hawks will inevitably lose valuable younger pieces in the future.

Ironically, a lot of the fans who have animosity towards Stan Bowman ... are adamant about making the same mistakes that's haunted him. Unfortunately, fiscal responsibility matters in hard capped sports. Emotions make for bad business / hockey decisions.

 

[BobbyJet]

I say I don't know because he and his countrymen Panarin are really close.. not sure Breadman would like to see his guy shipped out if he signs here again. Then again, it's a business... I guess we'll see.



His hockey sense is incredible and his hands are really, really good. Haven't seen the great vision Yotes fans were labeling just yet, but it's supposedly pretty high end too.

Incredible you say. Just curious how you came to that conclusion so quickly? Have you followed Strome prior or are you just joining the bandwagon who have commented about his IQ and good hands?

 

[ColdSteel2]

Yeah, I’m glad Strome has good hockey sense because he is going to need it given his lack of speed. But I’m not even ready to put him up there with Anisimov yet because AA has been doing it in the NHL for a long time.

Strome should get there, but for me, experience at the NHL level is a big part of hockey sense. He has to learn when to take chances and when to back off and live to fight another day. Very few if any 21 year olds are going to have a complete level of awareness.

 

[migi]

Chuck Fletcher and Paul Holmgren meeting today. Sounds like it’s Fletcher’s job to lose. Goalie and center will be among priority adds for the new GM when named.

Anisimov should be shopped, although I dont think he would waive to Philadelphia.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Keith, Toews and Kane are retiring with the Hawks unless they themselves go to management and ask to be traded. This org isn't going to go down the road of forcing out Blackhawks legends like the old man did. It's not even worth discussing.

 

[piteus]

Yeah, I’m glad Strome has good hockey sense because he is going to need it given his lack of speed. But I’m not even ready to put him up there with Anisimov yet because AA has been doing it in the NHL for a long time.

Strome should get there, but for me, experience at the NHL level is a big part of hockey sense. He has to learn when to take chances and when to back off and live to fight another day. Very few if any 21 year olds are going to have a complete level of awareness.

Posters who ask to temper the enthusiasm on Strome are right. I also jumped the gun after one game. We need a bigger sample size.

However, you can tell Strome's body hasn't fully matured. He still looks like a teenager. It will be interesting how much better he can get when his conditioning and strength improves. I think there is decent upside.

 

[LordKOTL]

No one wants to trade Keith. However, emotional decisions are no way to run a business. The hardest thing to do in sports management is separating with an aging star. It's how we eneded up with Seabrook for 5.5 more years. Heck, I wasn't that against the deal because I thought it would bring is another Cup or two at the time. I was WRONG.

If you think Keith can help the Hawks contend next year, I'm all for it. 2020-2021 gets a bit dicey, but I can deal with that to if you think the Hawks are legitimate contenders.

We're always holding management accountable to responsible decisions. What is management's plan? I'm starting to think this is a longer rebuild than expected.

don't take this the wrong way, but as of now on this date, we as fans have to wait til Sept 2019...... this team needs fixing now.

What you're both missing is the recapture penalty:
If we trade Keith now and he retires at the end of this season, the 'hawks are on the hook for 3.1M in cap penalty until 2023.
If he retires in the summer of 2020, the cap penalty is 3.46M until 2023.
If he retires in the summer of 2021, the cap penalty is 3.74M until 2023.
If he retires in the summer of 2022, the cap penalty is 4.04M for the following season.

Any GM would have to be a special kind of stupid to expose the 'hawks to that level of cap liability.

That's not "emotional". That's not about whether or not Keith can help or hurt the team. It's the same as Hossa: Neither the 'hawks nor any other team is going to trade a recapture-risk contract until/unless the player pulls a Pronger/Hossa, or there's some kind of agreement in place that they will not officially retire.

Keith is with the 'hawks for the duration unless he wants out.

 

[ClydeLee]

What you're both missing is the recapture penalty:
If we trade Keith now and he retires at the end of this season, the 'hawks are on the hook for 3.1M in cap penalty until 2023.
If he retires in the summer of 2020, the cap penalty is 3.46M until 2023.
If he retires in the summer of 2021, the cap penalty is 3.74M until 2023.
If he retires in the summer of 2022, the cap penalty is 4.04M for the following season.

Any GM would have to be a special kind of stupid to expose the 'hawks to that level of cap liability.

That's not "emotional". That's not about whether or not Keith can help or hurt the team. It's the same as Hossa: Neither the 'hawks nor any other team is going to trade a recapture-risk contract until/unless the player pulls a Pronger/Hossa, or there's some kind of agreement in place that they will not officially retire.

Keith is with the 'hawks for the duration unless he wants out.

Nashville traded Weber, but the deal was do good and his retire likelyhood was so far away it was a worthy move.

But I think Keith would not want to hurt the hawks and retire on his own accord unless he really gets to a point he's not playing much or getting scratched/3rd pair rolls. That might be a case where he might retire. Trade him to a team Q winds up coaching and maybe you can bank on that not happening.