Selke Race 2016-2017

[Kelly]

Absolute YES to Kadri. Absolute NO to Matthews...

Absolute no to both.

Kadri couldn't hold Bergeron/Koivu/Keslers jock strap defensively, and Matthews was sheltered for the majority of the year, and is still having rookie mistakes. I think Matthews could be a Selke finalist some day, but not this year.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

Its not like the media hasn't followed the NHL direction in the past. The NHL is prob the worst league in N.A for alienating media who don't tow the line.

So it's like a conspiracy theory based on a conspiracy theory.

Big if true.

 

[MXD]

Absolute no to both.

Kadri couldn't hold Bergeron/Koivu/Keslers jock strap defensively, and Matthews was sheltered for the majority of the year, and is still having rookie mistakes. I think Matthews could be a Selke finalist some day, but not this year.

Matthews : This is why I said "Absolutely no".

Kadri : In absolute terms, no. But Bergeron is having an off year. Not saying Kadri would win it, but he absolutely should get some suppport. I think each member of the PHWA has 5 votes. I'd never put him above Koivu and Kesler, but if Toronto makes the playoffs (it's not a conspiracy theory thing : Selke winners tend to come from good-to-great teams, and the Leafs could be described as a good team), Kadri will absolutely get some support.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

So it's like a conspiracy theory based on a conspiracy theory.

Big if true.

I wouldn't go that far. More like the NHL markets its youth therefore more exposure and in that exposure come more media attention and even the best journalist can be subtly affected by perceived mass opinion.

 

[wintersej]

If Minny can hold their streak to the end, it should be Koivu. Unfortunately he is European so he needs to be extra good to be even nominated. So I guess it will be Kesler, although Koivu deserves it.

Um, Kopitar won it last year.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

So it's like a conspiracy theory based on a conspiracy theory.

Big if true.

For instance the memory of Crosby's dominant defensive performance in the cup run is 100% going to factor into him getting more votes this year.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

For instance the memory of Crosby's dominant defensive performance in the cup run is 100% going to factor into him getting more votes this year.

I don't think so, I think that's just the player Crosby has evolved into. Who knows though.

 

[GTA]

Here's a crazy idea - Artemi Panarin

-Best shot suppressor in the league by almost 6% (-17.43 to Josh Manson's -11.81)

-Third highest Quality of Competition on the Blackhawks

-Buckle up for this one: worst Quality of Teammates on the Blackhawks by nearly FIVE PERCENT (43.4% to Kempny's 48.2%) Not only is that the highest in the league; that's the highest I've ever seen. .

Once again, you are using out of context numbers to prove an absurd point. It's got to be tough suppressing shots when you start all of your shifts in the offensize zone, with historically bad linemates like Kane and Anisimov

I implore you, for the love of God - actually watch the game sometime

 

[GTA]

Um, Kopitar won it last year.

Which doesn't conflict with his point? Kopitar was extra good.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

I don't think so, I think that's just the player Crosby has evolved into. Who knows though.

IMO its more or less a case of Crosby was good defensively but his points overshadowed that. So then comes the play offs where he isn't putting up the points so his defensive game got the recognition in finally deserved.

 

[MXD]

Here's a crazy idea - Artemi Panarin

-Best shot suppressor in the league by almost 6% (-17.43 to Josh Manson's -11.81)

-Third highest Quality of Competition on the Blackhawks

-Buckle up for this one: worst Quality of Teammates on the Blackhawks by nearly FIVE PERCENT (43.4% to Kempny's 48.2%) Not only is that the highest in the league; that's the highest I've ever seen.

Full marks to Anisimov and Kane, who are great teammates if you want to put up points, but we're not talking about points. They're both comically bad shot suppressors, and Panarin has been comically good playing with them.

I know it'll never happen because "watch the games nerd" but the guy is putting up alien numbers.

The best way to avoid the "Watch the games nerd" type of answer is to not come up with suggestions that CLEARLY suggest you aren't watching the game.

 

[gilfaizon]

I'd like to see some more names like Koivu on these ballots

 

[thirdJR]

Kesler slashing or crosschecking the opponent's best player can be just as effective as any shot suppression or puck moving, in a weird way. Don't underestimate his "defensive prowess" aka psychological warfare .

He wins it unless Kopitar or Bergeron catch fire.

 

[Trap Jesus]

Bergeron hasn't taken any hit defensively, it's only been offensively. That being said, you need at least a decent point total and he hasn't had that this year. He's looked better on the offensive side of the puck since the Christmas break, so I'm wondering if he'll get his numbers up to the point he'd need to to be in the race, as backwards as that is to say.

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

Kesler

 

[Ducks in a row]

Kesler should be the favorite at this point.

 

[QcFlames12]

At this point in time i would say it something like this:

Kesler and RoR 1st and 2nd

Kopitar and Koivu 3rd and 4th

Those players are the clear candidates, personnally I would give it to RoR but thats only my opionion. Tons of other players deserve credit though such as:

Crosby
Dubinsky
Stasny
Bergeron
Mark Stone
Mikeal Backlund
Micheal Frolik
RNH
Jeff Carter
Cullen
And many more, these names are simply off the top of ny head

 

[Spazkat]

At this point in time i would say it something like this:

Kesler and RoR 1st and 2nd

Kopitar and Koivu 3rd and 4th

Those players are the clear candidates, personnally I would give it to RoR but thats only my opionion.

Are we ignoring the "2 way" thing and points and just going for defensive forwards? Because if so you may want to bring Bergeron back into the conversation. He's closer to ROR in points than ROR is to Kesler.

I'm just not seeing what ROR is doing defensively that puts him above Kesler with barely half the points


Kesler: 34
Koivu: 24
ROR: 18
Kopitar: 17
Bergeron:12

 

[93LEAFS]

Bergeron should probably win every year. Barkov looked like a good contender before he got hurt again. Kesler is also a good choice.

 

[Machinehead]

Once again, you are using out of context numbers to prove an absurd point. It's got to be tough suppressing shots when you start all of your shifts in the offensize zone, with historically bad linemates like Kane and Anisimov

I implore you, for the love of God - actually watch the game sometime

*Quality of competition and quality of teammates*

"out of context"

 

[Ducks DVM]

*Quality of competition and quality of teammates*

"out of context"

Panarin isn't actually suppressing shots, he's just taking a ton of them. Only Kane has allowed more shots against amongst Chicago forwards. Which is damned impressive, considering that Panarin averages a laughable 1.23 starts in the defensive zone per game. He has an 82.64 offensive zone starting %. The next closest player in the entire NHL is Malkin at 77.64%. The next closest Blackhawk is Anisimov at 66.87%.

Kesler 33.93%
Koivu 35.1%
Kadri 38.32%
Kopitar 50.28% (which is actually worst on the Kings, impressive stuff)
Beregeron 58.18%

Did you really think that nobody would look at the underlying numbers and analyze them, or were you trying to point out just how bad quality of competition is in determining how Panarin is being used?

 

[Kraken Jokes]

I hate the way this trophy is given out. "Best offensive player who happens to be good defensively too". Should be "best defensive forward" full stop. You don't kill penalties, you're not on the ice in the final minute protecting a lead, you get mostly offensive zone starts? You don't get votes in my opinion.

 

[Machinehead]

Panarin isn't actually suppressing shots, he's just taking a ton of them. Only Kane has allowed more shots against amongst Chicago forwards. Which is damned impressive, considering that Panarin averages a laughable 1.23 starts in the defensive zone per game. He has an 82.64 offensive zone starting %. The next closest player in the entire NHL is Malkin at 77.64%. The next closest Blackhawk is Anisimov at 66.87%.

Kesler 33.93%
Koivu 35.1%
Kadri 38.32%
Kopitar 50.28% (which is actually worst on the Kings, impressive stuff)
Beregeron 58.18%

Did you really think that nobody would look at the underlying numbers and analyze them, or were you trying to point out just how bad quality of competition is in determining how Panarin is being used?

Panarin leads the league in shot attempts against relative to team. And he leads by an obnoxious distance. It has nothing to do with taking a ton of them.

I don't know what numbers you're looking at.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Panarin leads the league in shot attempts against relative to team. And he leads by an obnoxious distance. It has nothing to do with taking a ton of them.

I don't know what numbers you're looking at.

I'm looking at the raw numbers of shot attempts against, then ranking them worst to first.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...ter=gamesPlayed,gte,&sort=shotAttemptsAgainst

5v5 shots against - Panarin with 470. Only Kane on the Blackhawks has more.

He's also second worst in unblocked shot attempts against with 364.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...Played,gte,&sort=unblockedShotAttemptsAgainst

I have no idea what you're looking at. He starts a ludicrous amount of time in the offensive zone, and has 49 defensive zone starts this SEASON (again, 1.23 defensive zone starts per game). That's not Selke stuff. His line takes a huge volume of shots, which gives him a nice relative number, but he's not actually suppressing a damned thing. Considering how far he starts his shift from his own goal, it's beyond me how you can claim he's good at it.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm looking at the raw numbers of shot attempts against, then ranking them worst to first.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...ter=gamesPlayed,gte,&sort=shotAttemptsAgainst

5v5 shots against - Panarin with 470. Only Kane on the Blackhawks has more.

He's also second worst in unblocked shot attempts against with 364.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...Played,gte,&sort=unblockedShotAttemptsAgainst

I have no idea what you're looking at. He starts a ludicrous amount of time in the offensive zone, and has 49 defensive zone starts this SEASON (again, 1.23 defensive zone starts per game). That's not Selke stuff. His line takes a huge volume of shots, which gives him a nice relative number, but he's not actually suppressing a damned thing. Considering how far he starts his shift from his own goal, it's beyond me how you can claim he's good at it.

That's not how it works. That's not how it works at all. It has absolutely nothing to do with taking a huge volume of shots.

You can take 10 shots in a season and be better at suppressing shots than a player who takes a billion.

Shot suppression = shots AGAINST