Selke finalists - Bergeron, Kopitar, Toews

[weastern bias]

Who do you think is unquestionably better defensively than Patrice Bergeron?

Of the three, he's the one who most deserves to be among the finalists; there are only players that are arguably better than him, none unquestionably

Kopitar is also excellent defensively, but he didn't necessarily have a top-3 season

Jonathan Toews is there just because he can be, and because his team made the playoffs he's probably gonna win

On the plus side we can just bump this thread next year when it's the same three finalists again

 

[Ishdul]

Of the three, he's the one who most deserves to be among the finalists; there are only players that are arguably better than him, none unquestionably

Kopitar is also excellent defensively, but he didn't necessarily have a top-3 season

Jonathan Toews is there just because he can be, and because his team made the playoffs he's probably gonna win

On the plus side we can just bump this thread next year when it's the same three finalists again

A very good number of the votes came in when they didn't know whether Boston or LA made the playoffs. All of the media stuff has Bergeron winning it.

 

[Trap Jesus]

What do you know? It's the same three guys as last year, none of whom are truly the best defensive forward in the league

Which player is truly a better defensive forward than Bergeron? I know you said "arguably" better above, so I'd be interested in hearing who.

 

[AvroArrow]

Hard to pick all solid players, i would go with Toews if i had to pick one

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I get why people are frustrated that the same guys are nominated, but I don't think it would be much different if you asked the players themselves. Probably some Datzyuk and Hossa worked in with a few others.

As for it being a reputation thing, yes an no. Defense isn't as easy quantifiable. You can take so much from advance stats, but they are as much about maintaining possession as they are defending. So writers, fans, players stick with the guys that they know are good over guys who might have been just as good this year, because it's hard to actually say who was the best.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Why don't they do the TSN players poll anymore? I always liked that.

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

Status quo award. Backstrom, Palat, Plekanec all deserve recognition. Kopitar has not impressed me this season, and Toews is solid, but equally as these others I have named. Bergeron is in the elite though, and I think he always deserves t least to be a finalist.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I think it's a second tier trophy (first tier being the Hart/Lindsay/Art Ross), along with the Richard, but it's still a HUGE honour to be win the Selke. Being voted the best defensive forward in the league is nothing to shake a stick at.

And none of the players up for the award this season are "second rate". They may not be the best-of-the-best (ala Crosby/OV/Malkin) but they are extremely valuable players, especially come playoffs.

The Rocket is less prestigious than the Hart/Lindsay/Ross trio, but it is the lesser of the first tier awards.
There is no vote for it, it's based on numbers. Whoever gets the most goals wins it, there is no bias.
The Rocket means more than the Selke to me.

The most prestigious sweep of the awards is getting Hart/Lindsay/Ross/Rocket in a single season. This feat has only been accomplished once, by none other than the Great 8 in 2008.

Even better than that is getting the Conn Smythe on top of it, but that's nearly impossible.

 

[Purity*]

I thought this was the year where Plekanec was not going to be overlooked but nope I was wrong

It's him who deserves the Selke this year IMO, he had a terrific year on both ends of the ice as a matter of fact.

 

[Moops]

The Rocket is less prestigious than the Hart/Lindsay/Ross trio, but it is the lesser of the first tier awards.
There is no vote for it, it's based on numbers. Whoever gets the most goals wins it, there is no bias.
The Rocket means more than the Selke to me.

The most prestigious sweep of the awards is getting Hart/Lindsay/Ross/Rocket in a single season. This feat has only been accomplished once, by none other than the Great 8 in 2008.

Even better than that is getting the Conn Smythe on top of it, but that's nearly impossible.

You're not counting the five time Gretzky pulled this off? A scoring title is a scoring title, whether it's acknowledged in trophy form or not.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

You're not counting the five time Gretzky pulled this off? A scoring title is a scoring title, whether it's acknowledged in trophy form or not.

Yeah I did not count it. Still an impressive feat nonetheless.

 

[Tadite]

I think Kopitar should have had it last year without any real question. The advanced stats supported, the game play did as well, and of course the overall team success. That goes for the most part on the year before as well.

... Not so much this year.

 

[Bee Sheriff]

They are. Mike Peca won a Selke with 49 points, Draper won a Selke with 40 points.

definitely cherry picking here

 

[Bee Sheriff]

Kopitar was a super easy nominee and I don't know what people are complaining about here. The issue with the Kings this year wasn't his defense.

It wasn't, but he still was not nearly as good as he was last year defensively.

Not all trophies

But the Smythe, Selke, & Norris Trophies are popularity contests

Also Lindsay>Hart

I disagree, the players always choose the biggest name from the highest scorers. There isn't much thought put into it by them. It's always "Crosby AINEC" in their minds. Or Toews, or Ovi.

 

[Trap Jesus]

I think Kopitar should have had it last year without any real question. The advanced stats supported, the game play did as well, and of course the overall team success. That goes for the most part on the year before as well.

... Not so much this year.

Kopitar didn't have a legit argument over Bergeron last year. It wouldn't have been obscene if he won it or anything, but Bergeron definitely deserved it.

First off, it's a regular season award, and the voting is done before the playoffs. Not that team success should matter, but Boston won the President's Trophy and the Kings finished nearly 20 points back.

For advanced stats, Bergeron had the edge on him. He was slightly ahead in Corsi and Fenwick stats, but was way ahead in the relative stats, which made it seem like Bergeron was more important in driving the bus for possession for Boston than Kopitar was for LA. He also had tougher zone starts.

 

[SympathyForTheDevils]

I can understand people criticizing how Selke nominees are chosen, but I don't understand the whole "Not those guys again!" thing. Do people have the same reaction when Ovechkin wins the Rocket? Or when Crosby is a Hart nominee?

This isn't a lifetime achievement award. There's no reason why player's defensive proficiency might greatly change from year to year. If anything, the award would lose credibility with me if there was a new winner every year, which would prove that the voters have no idea how to evaluate defensive play (altough, to be fair, they probably don't).

I feel like this is about fans wanting their team's best defensive forward to get some recognition, but without understanding how competitive this award really is.

 

[Bee Sheriff]

I can understand people criticizing how Selke nominees are chosen, but I don't understand the whole "Not those guys again!" thing. Do people have the same reaction when Ovechkin wins the Rocket? Or when Crosby is a Hart nominee?

This isn't a lifetime achievement award. There's no reason why player's defensive proficiency might greatly change from year to year. If anything, the award would lose credibility with me if there was a new winner every year, which would prove that the voters have no idea how to evaluate defensive play (altough, to be fair, they probably don't).

I feel like this is about fans wanting their team's best defensive forward to get some recognition, but without understanding how competitive this award really is.

great post

 

[satbank]

Bergeron, points would be better if his linemates didn't miss open net.

 

[Church of Toews*]

I thought this was the year where Plekanec was not going to be overlooked but nope I was wrong

It's him who deserves the Selke this year IMO, he had a terrific year on both ends of the ice as a matter of fact.

Will Plekanec immediately hand the trophy over to price as a way of saying thank you for bailing him out so many times this year

 

[WesMcCauley]

stupid that only centers win this trophy. Players like Nash and Hossa etc are two of the best twoway forwards in the league but never have a chance at Selke because they play wing.

 

[The Expert]

I understand that they are all genuinely the best defensive forwards in the league, but holy hell is it boring to see the same nominees every year

Not trying to argue that any are undeserving but I find it hard to believe that the same three were the three best two years in a row. Lazy voters.

 

[StroShow]

If Kopitar wins this year it's simply because he got robbed last year.

He absolutely should've won last year , I'm hoping he wins this year. In my opinion he is the best two way forward in the game today.

 

[Arrhizal]

Am I reading the advanced stats on NHL.com right? Kopitar in first place for both Corsi and Fenwick?

 

[mcpw]

Toews is a really good player. But can anybody explain me: by what criterion is he one of the three best defensive forwards in the league? Is he even a defensive forward?

 

[ClydeLee]

Toews is a really good player. But can anybody explain me: by what criterion is he one of the three best defensive forwards in the league? Is he even a defensive forward?

It's quality at playing defense... there award isn't to "defensive forwards" and if it was, you wouldn't see many stars because you'd see a list of checking line centers every year getting the award then.