Boston Bruins Seeking some perspective from B's fans on the Sens situation

[Gonzothe7thDman]

If Thornton brought back what Karlsson did, I doubt there would be as many people still bothered by it.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I'd argue your Sens did it right with Karlsson. They correctly identified that he was declining and his injuries would make it worse while his cost was still increasing. They pulled a Belichick and moved on at just the right time.

The Bruins by contrast traded Thornton while he was on the ascent and right before he blew up into "best in the league" status.

 

[BruinDust]

You ended up getting Tim Stutzle directly from the Karlsson trade. I'd be over the moon if I was a Sens fan about that trade. A top elite young forward for a declining, and now overpaid, player.

I'd be more upset about the Stone deal. He's still a heck of a hockey player, and I'm not convinced Erik Brannstrom is ever going to be a core-level player in the NHL. Probably more of a supporting cast type.

 

[ReggiesLemons]

Hi Guys,

As a lifelong Senators fan (for better or worse...haha) was wondering if you could provide some perspective on something I was wondering about:
When the B's traded Joe Thorton and immediately following, weren't great for a few years before becoming amazing (and winning a cup), were you generally still peeved about how the team traded Thornton away even though the team was amazing now?

I ask because it seems like the Sens are turning a corner here and honestly, even if the Sens win a cup, I'm still pretty upset about the Karlsson trade...Or if the Sens get great and the Sharks tank (no pun intended), should I just get over it?

What are your thoughts?

Truthfully, you are comparing apples to oranges. Joe was traded before his prime and had his best years in San Jose. Karlsson on the other hand was on the decline his last season in Ottawa and has only been worse in SJ. I can certainly appreciate you being a fan of the player. With that said, Ottawa did much better in what they received for Karlsson. I think you should be pretty happy overall with how things turned out. That trade alone should have expedited the rebuild. Boston received a pretty poor return for Joe but I am happy with how things turned out overall. I don't know that the Bruins would have won with him.

 

[Dr Hook]

If Thornton brought back what Karlsson did, I doubt there would be as many people still bothered by it.

This is it for me, also. I hated seeing the Bruins trade Jumbo because we know what he turned into, and he was just about there with the Bruins. However, if it was best for the organization long-term, and it probably was, then they damn sure should have gotten value for him. That trade was an epic f*** up from that perspective. Though it did spell the sort-of end of Harry at the helm, so there is that. Still, it was a miserable return all things considered.

 

[SkullKing]

It was the worst trade the Bruins ever made in my lifetime, but it’s not worth dwelling on.

The Thornton trade was the worst, but the one I hated was the Seguin trade

 

[Dueling Banjos]

Karlsson was traded at exactly right moment and the return is looking better every day, exciting time to be a Sens fan.

I can't wait to see Stutzle hit Matthews over and over again.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Hi Guys,

As a lifelong Senators fan (for better or worse...haha) was wondering if you could provide some perspective on something I was wondering about:
When the B's traded Joe Thorton and immediately following, weren't great for a few years before becoming amazing (and winning a cup), were you generally still peeved about how the team traded Thornton away even though the team was amazing now?

I ask because it seems like the Sens are turning a corner here and honestly, even if the Sens win a cup, I'm still pretty upset about the Karlsson trade...Or if the Sens get great and the Sharks tank (no pun intended), should I just get over it?

What are your thoughts?

No right answer... I’m sure there are still fans upset we traded for that kid esposito out of Chicago

But imo you need a big picture view. Thornton and his clique of friends had control over the culture of the team. Thornton in those days was a talent but not a winner. His friends were slightly less talented. There was no room for guys like Andrew ference and mark recchi and Martin lapointe to help kids like Bergeron and chara to take over

Eventually we won... it was the right decesion... but a number of fans will say we might have won 3-4 without the trade

That’s the right of a fanatic... you just need passion. Logic ain’t necessary

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Hi Guys,

As a lifelong Senators fan (for better or worse...haha) was wondering if you could provide some perspective on something I was wondering about:
When the B's traded Joe Thorton and immediately following, weren't great for a few years before becoming amazing (and winning a cup), were you generally still peeved about how the team traded Thornton away even though the team was amazing now?

I ask because it seems like the Sens are turning a corner here and honestly, even if the Sens win a cup, I'm still pretty upset about the Karlsson trade...Or if the Sens get great and the Sharks tank (no pun intended), should I just get over it?

What are your thoughts?

I think there isn't a consensus among Bruins fans. There are definitely some fans who still agree with then-management's belief that he wasn't a guy you build a winner around, and there are others who recognize that he's an all time great player who got kind of a raw deal here. I personally fall in the latter camp. I think management was the source of this team's problems and that eventually becoming a contender had more to do with overhauling the front office and signing Chara than with trading Thornton. Some will argue that you couldn't have afforded to keep Thornton and sign Chara but that's nonsense. Keeping Joe probably would have meant no Marc Savard. As much as I love Savvy, they definitely could have built a contender around Thornton and Chara (with Bergeron, Marchand, etc). Others might argue that Bergeron might never have become an elite center if stuck in Thornton's shadow but that's more nonsense. Bergeron was too good to be held down and the two guys are different enough that they wouldn't have competed for the same assignments usually. They would have been a dominant 1-2 punch.

Now with that said I wouldn't change a thing because we got the Cup and I'm ok with how things turned out, but I never had any problem with Joe Thornton as a fan and a part of me definitely wonders what might have been. For example, as great as David Krejci was with Lucic and Horton, how dominant would a Lucic/Thornton/Horton line have been?

Anyway I think it's totally valid and reasonable to recognize that sometimes a trade can work out well for your hockey club while still thinking it was handled poorly. Fortunately Bruins fans have the luxury to look back and bash the old management b/c we're multiple regimes removed from them and don't need to maintain any sort of loyalty to them like if they were currently running the team.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

The Thornton trade was the worst, but the one I hated was the Seguin trade

The Seguin trade is a worse trade IMO because it was made from a position of strength and they still got hosed. The team had won a Cup and made the finals in a 3 year span. They had Seguin, a 2nd overall pick and Hamilton looking good as a 9th overall pick. They still had guys like Bergeron, Marchand, Lucic & Krejci in their primes. Yes they had cap problems, but as we've seen, those things are never as hard to get out of as they seem. The Bruins really held all the cards and should have gotten way more for Seguin. The kid had issues, but it's not like he had asked for a trade. The urgency to trade him was totally self-inflicted. At least with the Thornton trade you can kind of understand it because the team was doing so poorly...you can at least rationalize it as a panic move. With Seguin the panic was completely manufactured and it almost certainly cost them another Cup.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

People who say they don't mind the Thornton trade are absolute 100% liars.

Remember that Thornton kicked his game up a notch when he got to San Jose and was hands down the best player in the NHL (Sid/Ovi would take that from him soon enough but not that first year.) Savard and Chara signings didn't look good their first season and we were the worst team in the NHL or close to it even with them.

Then it got (much better immediately.) DK broke through and we had 3 good centers.

How come you aren't playing Brannstrom? Insane you stuck him in the AHL after the Stone trade.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

I have no idea why.

Ancient history, and he was never going to raise the Cup here anyway.

If JJ the most powerful owner in the sport and ringleader for the lockout hadn't screwed up that lockout (and resigned Joe, Nylander, Gonchar to soon to be rolled back contracts) guys like Modano and Forsberg and Kariya might have signed here as opposed to crap like Zhamnov.

The deal was made because they liked Sturm and Stuart's contracts and thought they were good value. Were lucky we were so awful and could rebuild even drafting Zach Hamill so quickly.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

The Seguin trade is a worse trade IMO because it was made from a position of strength and they still got hosed. The team had won a Cup and made the finals in a 3 year span. They had Seguin, a 2nd overall pick and Hamilton looking good as a 9th overall pick. They still had guys like Bergeron, Marchand, Lucic & Krejci in their primes. Yes they had cap problems, but as we've seen, those things are never as hard to get out of as they seem. The Bruins really held all the cards and should have gotten way more for Seguin. The kid had issues, but it's not like he had asked for a trade. The urgency to trade him was totally self-inflicted. At least with the Thornton trade you can kind of understand it because the team was doing so poorly...you can at least rationalize it as a panic move. With Seguin the panic was completely manufactured and it almost certainly cost them another Cup.

He had just gotten a big raise same as Joe who needed a new deal when the NHL returned and got it.

The Bruins don't like paying their kids. Even Pasternak got signed at the 11th hour when he was up.

We love to give bags of cash to other teams washed up vets like Lapointe and Backes of course.

The Bruins loved Loui's contract just like Sturm and Stuart were both seen as ideal contracts. They could have been offered Crosby and would have said no because they wanted the Eriksson contract.

 

[Jonathan17]

You should be ecstatic the direction the Sens are headed in. The return you guys got for Karlsson was way better than what the Bruins got for Big Joe.

I mean come on your Killing me. Tim Stuetzle and Josh Norris alone gives Ottawa the win. O'Connell didn't do any shopping and shortly there after became unemployed. Huge difference between the two. Ottawa won the Karlsson trade, Boston not so-much.

I said a few days ago that the Sens will be scary in two years. Stuetzle and Norris is great return. The Bruins’ return on the trade was terrible as has been rehashed here. The best thing they got, though, was not tying up cap space on Joe. The Sens would probably regret that the most, as other people are saying. A crafty trade or two to round out the lineup and the Sens will win a Cup.

 

[Kegs]

Thornton for Marco sturm trade? Lol worst trade ever I’ll never get over it. Fan boy over here lol. But sens got way better return. And karlsson deal is just looking genius really. Sens. Won that trade.

 

[Mathews28]

I have no idea why.

Ancient history, and he was never going to raise the Cup here anyway.

Or anywhere else apparently.

 

[SkullKing]

The Seguin trade is a worse trade IMO because it was made from a position of strength and they still got hosed. The team had won a Cup and made the finals in a 3 year span. They had Seguin, a 2nd overall pick and Hamilton looking good as a 9th overall pick. They still had guys like Bergeron, Marchand, Lucic & Krejci in their primes. Yes they had cap problems, but as we've seen, those things are never as hard to get out of as they seem. The Bruins really held all the cards and should have gotten way more for Seguin. The kid had issues, but it's not like he had asked for a trade. The urgency to trade him was totally self-inflicted. At least with the Thornton trade you can kind of understand it because the team was doing so poorly...you can at least rationalize it as a panic move. With Seguin the panic was completely manufactured and it almost certainly cost them another Cup.

Thank everything Chiarelli was fired, although I don't really like our current one either...

 

[ap3lovr]

Time heals all wounds. The initial shock of the trade led to me finding this board. I got really upset about it, and hated the return. The B's hit rock bottom, and then I got reinvested in watching the team get better.

 

[LouJersey]

Do all the clairvoyants here know what the power ball numbers are going to be since they know for a fact Thornton would never have won a cup as a Bruin?

 

[LouJersey]

If JJ the most powerful owner in the sport and ringleader for the lockout hadn't screwed up that lockout (and resigned Joe, Nylander, Gonchar to soon to be rolled back contracts) guys like Modano and Forsberg and Kariya might have signed here as opposed to crap like Zhamnov.

The deal was made because they liked Sturm and Stuart's contracts and thought they were good value. Were lucky we were so awful and could rebuild even drafting Zach Hamill so quickly.

It was the classic Bruins nickels for a quarter deal they are famous for, They traded Joe, treated him like garbage on the way out then wondered why real good pro players wouldn't sign here.

 

[Don Cherry]

It was the classic Bruins nickels for a quarter deal they are famous for, They traded Joe, treated him like garbage on the way out then wondered why real good pro players wouldn't sign here.

This!