Second impressions of Marty St. Louis (Mod warning in OP)

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

It's a confidence thing. It's a new player, and leader, coming in and wanting to probably not step on any toes. He will be fine.

Producing offensively would step on peoples' toes?

 

[offdacrossbar]

The thing is, for the assets we gave up to get him, we are going to need a lot more than fine. In the original trade thread so many posters said they're ok with giving up so much for an elite forward - and if he is elite, I could understand that sentiment.

So we need elite, not fine.

love that line.

few things. you have to give to get. hockey deals are done moving value for value- unless you are shopping in the clearance isle.

draft picks are worth exactly nothing if you dont get lucky (yes drafting is a large measure of being fortunate) and you dont draft with purpose. given our recent track record, i dont fear the loss of those picks as much has some here i guess. a draft pick isnt an asset. jt miller, dylan mcilrath and brady skjei are assets.

mike del zotto was a draft pick....

i understand that the deal doesnt happen without the 1st round pick. cally not resigning in tampa means cally for msl leave tampa with nothing. the picks were a hedge. we dont have msl without the picks.

cally priced himself out of ny. his call. the picks are only assets if we draft players who can play. not our strength of late. lots of ifs and maybes.

ill take martin st louis and his resume at this time, with this team, with this henrik in his prime. i like the belief we can go far. the cup is the final goal.

we have a better chance with msl than we did with cally and those picks. and i dont believe thats a short sided position at all.

 

[NYR Viper]

Producing offensively would step on peoples' toes?

Taking his customary role of most likely telling people where to be may, yes.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Taking his customary role of most likely telling people where to be may, yes.

He's the reigning Art Ross winner and the day he was traded became the team's leading scorer. Isn't there some gravitas there?

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

few things. you have to give to get. hockey deals are done moving value for value- unless you are shopping in the clearance isle.

How can say this.....

draft picks are worth exactly nothing if you dont get lucky (yes drafting is a large measure of being fortunate) and you dont draft with purpose. given our recent track record, i dont fear the loss of those picks as much has some here i guess. a draft pick isnt an asset. jt miller, dylan mcilrath and brady skjei are assets.

....and then say this?

mike del zotto was a draft pick....

He was. And?

i understand that the deal doesnt happen without the 1st round pick. cally not resigning in tampa means cally for msl leave tampa with nothing. the picks were a hedge. we dont have msl without the picks.

I thought picks are worth nothing? And if Callahan doesn't re-sign with Tampa, they get 5.625M is cap space. And doesn't that cap space allow the Bolts to get a sure thing?

cally priced himself out of ny. his call. the picks are only assets if we draft players who can play. not our strength of late. lots of ifs and maybes.

The more picks the more chance of success. Last draft, they didn't pick until the third round. This franchise turned around at the same time they stopped pissing away picks. And in a salary cap world, you need that young talent that is cheap and controllable.

ill take martin st louis and his resume at this time, with this team, with this henrik in his prime. i like the belief we can go far. the cup is the final goal.

That's fine.

we have a better chance with msl than we did with cally and those picks. and i dont believe thats a short sided position at all.

This season, maybe. But what about in a year of two when MSL is in his 40s? Meanwhile, Tampa is set for a playoff run this season and has the assets to build a franchise that can compete for the next 10 years with their stable of young talent.

 

[haveandare]

How can say this.....



....and then say this?



He was. And?



I thought picks are worth nothing? And if Callahan doesn't re-sign with Tampa, they get 5.625M is cap space. And doesn't that cap space allow the Bolts to get a sure thing?



The more picks the more chance of success. Last draft, they didn't pick until the third round. This franchise turned around at the same time they stopped pissing away picks. And in a salary cap world, you need that young talent that is cheap and controllable.



That's fine.



This season, maybe. But what about in a year of two when MSL is in his 40s? Meanwhile, Tampa is set for a playoff run this season and has the assets to build a franchise that can compete for the next 10 years with their stable of young talent.

Tampa's not getting 10 years of talent from one first round pick most likely in the 15-30 range. They've done a fantastic job building a team on their own. What Tampa has done on their own outside of this trade has little relevance to the assets that went either way.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Tampa's not getting 10 years of talent from one first round pick most likely in the 15-30 range..

I'm not suggesting that they will be set from the picks the Rangers gave up.

They've done a fantastic job building a team on their own. What Tampa has done on their own outside.

That is what I'm suggesting. And the Rangers picks will only help.

What Tampa has done on their own outside of this trade has little relevance to the assets that went either way.

It is relevant as what Tampa has done is an example of a team not being short-sighted.

 

[McRanger]

This season, maybe. But what about in a year of two when MSL is in his 40s? Meanwhile, Tampa is set for a playoff run this season and has the assets to build a franchise that can compete for the next 10 years with their stable of young talent.

Tampa is set for a playoff run at least partly because St. Louis. I wouldn't pencil them into the playoffs next year or any year after. This is a team that has won 2 playoff series since the '05 lockout and missed the playoffs 5 times including the last 2 seasons.

We have no idea where our draft choice will be and what kind of impact he will have. Actually we have no idea how any of their "stable" of young talent will turn out. It will be a while before we can even judge Yzerman's success in the draft.

I've lost track of the amount of organizations that are set to "compete for the next X years" and never do anything.

You want to talk about maybes? There is a lot of maybes there.

 

[haveandare]

I'm not suggesting that they will be set from the picks the Rangers gave up.



That is what I'm suggesting. And the Rangers picks will only help.



It is relevant as what Tampa has done is an example of a team not being short-sighted.

Tampa has a good stable of prospects. Good for them. It probably does't hurt that they've had sweet, sweet picks nearly every single year. Picked 10 last year, 27 the year before, but then 6, 7, and 1 overall the years prior.

Also, their key piece is a center in his mid 20s and they had a huge hole in goal until very recently. They're not similar enough to NYR in makeup to want NYR to follow their lead IMO. I mean, yeah, draft as much as you can, go for skill and see if you can round players out. That's sound advice for any team, but I'm not about to criticize NYR for not following the exact footsteps of a team that is extremely different in roster makeup and recent history - or for not following the lead of a team that has been even less successful in the playoffs post-lockout than the Rangers have been.

 

[Ian]

Tampa Bay has missed the playoffs in 5/8 years since the lockout, and has only won 2 playoff rounds (came in the same season as well).

Not to mention, they finished 2nd to last and dead last in the East in back to back years.

If it wasn't for the stupidity of Murray, they'd still be hunting for a goalie, like they have since 03.

Let's stop acting like their team has been the pinnacle of correct roster building.

 

[Elvis Presley]

Tampa Bay has missed the playoffs in 5/8 years since the lockout, and has only won 2 playoff rounds (came in the same season as well).

Not to mention, they finished 2nd to last and dead last in the East in back to back years.

If it wasn't for the stupidity of Murray, they'd still be hunting for a goalie, like they have since 03.

Let's stop acting like their team has been the pinnacle of correct roster building.

At least they've gotten a cup (2004)...

 

[Levitate]

At least they've gotten a cup (2004)...

So what your'e saying is that the Rangers are following Tampa's gameplan by trying to win a cup on the backs of Brad Richards and St Louis?

 

[aufheben]

It is relevant as what Tampa has done is an example of a team not being short-sighted.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Tampa Bay has missed the playoffs in 5/8 years since the lockout, and has only won 2 playoff rounds (came in the same season as well).

Not to mention, they finished 2nd to last and dead last in the East in back to back years.

If it wasn't for the stupidity of Murray, they'd still be hunting for a goalie, like they have since 03.

Let's stop acting like their team has been the pinnacle of correct roster building.

I don't think anyone is saying they've been the pinnacle of roster building. But they are in very good shape right now.

 

[aufheben]

Tampa Bay has the #1 prospect pool, which isn't even including Johnson and Palat, and now they have even more draft picks.

 

[Ian]

I don't think anyone is saying they've been the pinnacle of roster building. But they are in very good shape right now.

I don't think a tremendous amount of Tampa Bay fans would have shared that exact same sentiment at this time last year.

Considering they're getting major contributions from a number of guys with no pedigree or little track record, I think there should be a little wait and see in regards to how great of 'shape' they actually are in.

Not to mention, having the two worst teams in hockey in their division isn't exactly hurting them either.

 

[NYR Viper]

I don't think a tremendous amount of Tampa Bay fans would have shared that exact same sentiment at this time last year.

Considering they're getting major contributions from a number of guys with no pedigree or little track record, I think there should be a little wait and see in regards to how great of 'shape' they actually are in.

Not to mention, having the two worst teams in hockey in their division isn't exactly hurting them either.

TB is easily trending upwards. They have A LOT of young talent on the way and already some dynamic players on their roster. Yzerman is building a long-term winner. I wish Sather had that kind of foresight.

 

[Ian]

TB is easily trending upwards. They have A LOT of young talent on the way and already some dynamic players on their roster. Yzerman is building a long-term winner. I wish Sather had that kind of foresight.

Good for them?

I don't mean to be dismissive or act like I'm disagreeing with what you're saying, but this whole discussion is irrelevant to any discussion of MSL, unless the same posters just again want to conclude in a thread that Sather is a ****** GM.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Tampa Bay has the #1 prospect pool, which isn't even including Johnson and Palat, and now they have even more draft picks.

they have alot of nice young talent. ranked 1st for a reason.

they draft better than we do. they should have a better farm. we are ranked 27th. lol

sadly, i like their draft staff better than ours. they draft russians....

but msl and a 2nd for cally and a 1st and 2nd and a 7th is a no brainer imo.

a ny rangers draft pick, even a high one, isnt a sure thing.

 

[MrClutch86]

Congrats to Marty on scoring a goal, must be sort of a relief for you guys.

 

[Thirty One]

Congrats to Marty on scoring a goal, must be sort of a relief for you guys.

He did it for me tho

 

[Jersey Girl]

Congrats to Marty on scoring a goal, must be sort of a relief for you guys.

It will last a lifetime

 

[haveandare]

And now we wait...

Will getting the monkey off his back lead to him playing a more relaxed, more effective game?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Congrats to Marty on scoring a goal, must be sort of a relief for you guys.

You guys must be having a ball about this on the Lightning board.

 

[xsniper11x]

Some great discussion here and I've debated it back and forth. I was fully prepared to send Cally to STL/SJ for picks or young depth. However, Sather's incompetence aside (a debate for another time), this team is where it is in the cycle. Altering that path could take years.

For me, the X factor is Hank. Yes, he isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but his "prime window" is certainly the next few years. It's a tough call to make, hence the quality of the debate. But if you believe THIS guy in net is the one who will drive us to the promise land (as mgmt believes) then you have to capitalize when opportunities present itself. I hate that IT HAD to be a 2015 1st, but the gap in draft quality from 14 to 15 likely made it necessary.

BUT...if MSL does indeed fizzle out and Nash continues to be a PO no show, I'm personally done with players demanding trades to NY. If I'm Gorton, when i take over, I make that clear to the league.