Seattle V: Make It So(Do)...

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PCSPounder

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Apr 12, 2012
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When the old Seattle Center Coliseum existed, yes, it was a better hockey alignment. Just remember:
- no luxury suites
- 1950's thinking regarding concourses, meaning there wasn't much of one

So I don't think raising the floor is the answer. I'd actually lean towards lowering it again.

That concept of multi-tiered upper levels for the SoDo arena might make more sense in this rebuild.

Of course, I also think the rebuild is subject to whatever constraints I-91 puts on Seattle. After all, even if that law was poorly written, the city pulled out a lot of stops to work around it rather than through it.

One more thing in reading a couple articles. Key Arena is NOT designated a historic landmark, but the topic is most certainly under discussion. You'll excuse me for shaking my head because Key doesn't have that designation, yet Memorial Coliseum in Portland does. ("It's a bowl in a box, yo!")
 

Fugu

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I believe this is another group altogether Fugu. Parallel to Levin. 3-4 groups all scoping things out though based on the link above & as discussed looks like Ray there had the inside track.


I haven't heard of any other parties after Roenick et al, Bartoszek, and Levin.
 

MuzikMachine

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How much of Hansen/Balmer's plan was based on the NHL as a second team? Obviously it's centered around the NBA, but there was always the mention/hope of an NHL tenant. If another group was to either revamp/reconfigure (or replace) Key Arena, would the Hansen & Co plan loose a major piece of its revenue? Moving it a step further, could concerts choose the "Plan B" Arena, and maybe down the road the NBA prefers dealing with Bartoszek (or whoever) over the Hansen in bringing back and NBA franchise?

Hansen & Balmer have been operating as if they were the only option for the NBA with limited mention of the NHL. While too soon in the process, I wonder if they run the risk of being cut out completely if they don't play ball with the NHL?
 

Killion

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I haven't heard of any other parties after Roenick et al, Bartoszek, and Levin.

Not by name, no. But Ive heard/read rumors of some seriously monied people (Whales, not Sharks, the real biggies along the lines of Ballmer though obviously not him specifically) taking an interest. Still in the shadows.
 

gstommylee

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How much of Hansen/Balmer's plan was based on the NHL as a second team? Obviously it's centered around the NBA, but there was always the mention/hope of an NHL tenant. If another group was to either revamp/reconfigure (or replace) Key Arena, would the Hansen & Co plan loose a major piece of its revenue? Moving it a step further, could concerts choose the "Plan B" Arena, and maybe down the road the NBA prefers dealing with Bartoszek (or whoever) over the Hansen in bringing back and NBA franchise?

Hansen & Balmer have been operating as if they were the only option for the NBA with limited mention of the NHL. While too soon in the process, I wonder if they run the risk of being cut out completely if they don't play ball with the NHL?

County puts in 80m if a NHL team is secured plays at Sodo arena.
 

Killion

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How much of Hansen/Balmer's plan was based on the NHL as a second team?... I wonder if they run the risk of being cut out completely if they don't play ball with the NHL?

The only interest Hansen/Ballmer have in the NHL is that of a tenant in an NBA arena. As back~seat passengers. Its always been "NBA 1st". These guys have no interest, less than zero in hockey, the NHL. The only interest they have in it is as tommy mentions above; if they secure an NHL owner/franchise as a tenant theyd have received another $80M in funds to put towards the construction of the arena in SoDo. Such an arrangement does not portend well for the future & sustainability of an NHL franchise in Seattle as "tenants only" in a building managed & controlled by Hansen & Ballmer. In todays NHL model, with the exception perhaps (yet to be seen) of the Islanders in Brooklyn @ Barclays, it is absolutely imperative that the NHL franchise have access to & controls ALL revenue streams. As a tenant, they would not.

So beyond just the acquisition of an NBA Franchise that doesnt appear even remotely likely at this stage in the game, just exactly what kind of a Lease would Hansen & Ballmer provide to an NHL franchise? They'll be up to their necks in debt. Exhibit A: NBA Owner Jerry Colangelo in Phoenix. When the Jets were sent packing to Arizona under neophyte ownership, after being booted from Minnesota & homeless, Burke & Gluckstern sign a punitive & illogical Lease to play out of the then called AWA Arena, brand new, just opened, Jerry up to his eyeballs in debt & squeezing the Coyotes for every nickle he could get guaranteeing their insolvency and promulgating the Hell that followed & continues to this very day in Glendale. And theres more, much much more & Seattle specific going back 25 years...

In 1989 the NHL announced it would be expanding in 1992. Backed by Microsofts' Chris Larson, former Seattle Totem Bill MacFarland spearheaded the bid when low & behold, Bill Ackerley, son of Seattle Supersonics' owner & Manager of Key Arena Barry Ackerley enters with a competing bid of their own. Well, one thing leads to another, Larson, MacFarland & the Ackerleys pool their resources, join forces, good to go, right? The Expansion Fee was $50M and they had to show that they were capable of carrying costs for 5yrs, which was no problem, and additionally, they had plans to build a new state of the art arena replacing Key which was nearly 20yrs old, of a former generation, requiring major upgrades & renovations. Summer/fall of 1990 Larson & MacFarland make a brilliant written presentation to the NHL, all impressed, loving the idea that wow, Microsoft, new age money, Seattle ascendant, fabulous market, ideal, lets get it on! Pat Quinn was involved, and his inside sources told him Seattle was a lock.

Early December 1990, Larson, MacFarland, Barry Ackerley & an Ackerley financial advisor by the name of Bill Lear arrive on the NHL's doorstep along with other hopeful applicants to make their verbal pitch to the NHL Board of Governors. Theyve all 4 strategized & rehearsed every line, got their acts together, waiting nervously for their chance to present themselves & shine when totally unrehearsed and out of nowhere, Barry Ackerley & Bill Lear tell Gil Stein (VP & Genl Counsel of the NHL at that time) who had come to escort them into the Boardroom that they would first, just Ackerley & Lear, like to talk to the Board of Governors "privately". Larson & MacFarland didnt know what was going on or why, last minute, but they trusted Ackerley & Lear, reluctantly said ok fine. We'll just wait here patiently, but obviously concerned, wondering what the Hell this is all about...

Ten minutes later, Gil Stein comes out of the Boardroom & tells them that Ackerley & Lear had withdrawn Seattles application, no reason given, then left the Boardroom via another exit & eff'd off back to Seattle leaving Larson & MacFarland absolutely stunned!.... They were permitted to present their verbal presentation, however quite naively the legal application had been put into Ackerleys name so it was an exercise in futility..... And so it begs the question; "Why"? Why the charade, the duplicity, deceit & backstabbing, then gutlessly amscray through a backdoor?... All about the arena. Ackerley wanted Key Arena updated & upgraded and was simply using Larson & MacFarland along with the NHL itself as leverage against the City of Seattle & King County. Either drop $100M on reno's to the building or we'll build a brand new arena & leave Key vacated. Vacant.

Charming story yes? This Im afraid is exactly what your dealing with when it comes to huge money, arenas', the NBA vs NHL, though sometimes complimentary, and how these guys deal with one another. All kinds of variations, mechanizations & manipulations but tell ya what? I wouldnt trust Hansen & Ballmer to do right by the NHL in a building those two controlled & managed. I wouldnt trust any of them at NBA Inc to do any kind of favors for the league or newbie owners. Like asking Wyle E. Coyote to mind the Sheep. With friends like that who needs enemies? No, Im afraid the only way this gets done is if its done independently of any play for the NBA, as passengers in the backseat of the NBA's vehicle cuz tell ya what? Just a matter of time before Hansen & Ballmer pull over to the side of the road, nice quiet spot, tell their NHL pal to get out, duct tape his mouf shut & tie him up, put him in the trunk of the car and maybe throw him the odd Chiclet for that days sustenance, his meal... ya. Balanced diet of nothing. Not worth the risk. Totally unsustainable unless Hansen & Ballmer owned part of the NHL team & actually cared. Look at what ASG did in Atlanta? Even then, even when NBA guys wind up buying an NHL club they never wanted, look how that turned out?.... and look what Ackerley did to Key Arena? Useless for hockey. So we'll see. Im convinced there are some seriously large Whales circling out beyond the horizon of Puget Sound. Its going to take some serious private equity to get this done but the cost to reward I think is there, Seattle superior to many pre-existant NHL markets. Guess we'll see....
 
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LadyStanley

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http://www.sonicsrising.com/2014/4/...nhl-seattle-owner-looking-at-keyarena-remodel

Ray Bartoszek, the investment banker who headed the group lined up last year as the Seattle "Plan B" for the Phoenix Coyotes before a sale and arena financial plan kept that team in Glendale, wants to bring the NHL to Seattle, and he's tired of waiting.

Following on his story Thursday about the NHL indefinitely abandoning the idea of Seattle expansion due to the hold-up in the arena process, Geoff Baker of the Seattle Times reports that Bartoszek is ready to consider other arena alternatives. According to Baker, Bartoszek believed that the Chris Hansen/Steve Ballmer-led effort to get a new arena offered the quickest opportunity to land a relocated or expansion NHL franchise, while also offering the easiest way through a political climate that has often appeared hostile or less-than-fertile to such efforts. For his money, that no longer appears to be the case.

Sounds like Bartoszek may be the keystone for a potential Seattle franchise and wants things to happen sooner than later.

Perhaps the Key Arena (with modifications) may be a short or long term solution (until and if SoDo happens).
 

gstommylee

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http://www.sonicsrising.com/2014/4/...nhl-seattle-owner-looking-at-keyarena-remodel



Sounds like Bartoszek may be the keystone for a potential Seattle franchise and wants things to happen sooner than later.

Perhaps the Key Arena (with modifications) may be a short or long term solution (until and if SoDo happens).

There might be issues with that though. People want to make Key arena a historic site for the exterior thus only the interior can be modified. There will be groups fighting a tear down and rebuild plan

If they are successful in stopping a tear down Bartoszek can only really gut the inside thus what issues that key arena is dealing with now wouldn't be addressed.

Essentuailly key arena remodel to NHL only would only be a short term solution Seattle really needs a state of an art arena that's larger than 400k square feet
 
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Killion

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^^^ The MTS Arena in downtown Winnipeg is app 440K so tbh I wouldnt be too worried that Key couldnt be gutted & re-configured to do very nicely indeed. However, cost could very well be prohibitive, equal to, possibly greater than a new building absent the cost of land. So I dunno.... A smaller, 15,000+ seater for hockey seems to me (and plenty of Sports Economists) ideal however, just a tonne of considerations in even contemplating such and sort of OT but none the less worth considering, how would the NHL justify when asked how a building put up in 1962 is worthy of a retro-fit & team when Hamilton (and elsewhere) with a much newer & more modern facility still incomplete is not? Copps Coliseum is one of the first of the new generation of arenas, widely copied in the boom that followed in the 90's & 00's.
 

gstommylee

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^^^ The MTS Arena in downtown Winnipeg is app 440K so tbh I wouldnt be too worried that Key couldnt be gutted & re-configured to do very nicely indeed. However, cost could very well be prohibitive, equal to, possibly greater than a new building absent though the cost of land. So I dunno.... A smaller, 15,000+ seater for hockey seems to me (and plenty of Sports Economists) ideal however, just a tonne of considerations in even contemplating such and sort of OT but none the less worth considering, how would the NHL justify when asked how a building put up in 1962 is worthy of a retro-fit & team when Hamilton (and elsewhere) with a much newer & more modern facility still incomplete is not? Copps Coliseum is one of the first of the new generation of arenas, widely copied in the boom that followed in the 90's & 00's.

Key arena wouldn't be making money even with a Key-arena retro fit for hockey. Thats the issue with it now.
 

gstommylee

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Perhaps Ray B needs to take another approach at the issue. Key arena isn't the solution. He needs to improve the ownership group financially where its more do able to take on Sodo arena with out Hansen.
 
Feb 7, 2012
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anyone and everyone. admittedly, my info comes from here and media reports, but it sure seems that hansen is no longer seen as the white knight poised to save seattle. he just keeps losing battles. and now here we see bartozsek saying that he was crowned in waiting by the NHL last year. and more acutely, he is now publicly questioning any continued association with hansen.


What battles does Hansen continue to lose? He lost the Kings, I didn't see any other 'battles' that he has lost.

Bartozek is unhitching himself from Hansen because he now knows he has to go on his own to try get a Hockey arena going (because he is not willing to pay the revenue shortfall gap between NBA and the NHL) because Hansen/Ballmer won't just build a arena and hope for the NBA to show up.

Even in that article Hansen stated he would be minority owner in new NHL team if NHL owner stepped up to pay that tax shortfall.
 
Feb 7, 2012
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Levin also mentioned being frustrated with the ongoing arena issue and that he was no longer in the hunt, maybe 2-3 months ago?

Who knows if he's going to pursue his Bellevue option given the recent turn, seeing there was some mention of 'investors' and 'Bellevue'.

Baker was on the radio and said that Levin is out. But that there are other investors still sniffing around, might be the mystery German investor that EJ Hradek mentioned several months ago.
 

SeattleStrangler

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If Hansen and Balmer make an offer in the ten figure range they will definitely be players in the pool of potential buyers. This isn't the Bucks, this team is profitable and will demand an outrageously high price. If magic Johnson gets a group together, H & B can forget about it no matter how much they offer. Magic is loved and Hansen is scum in the NBA's eyes.
 

gstommylee

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If Hansen and Balmer make an offer in the ten figure range they will definitely be players in the pool of potential buyers. This isn't the Bucks, this team is profitable and will demand an outrageously high price. If magic Johnson gets a group together, H & B can forget about it no matter how much they offer. Magic is loved and Hansen is scum in the NBA's eyes.

And that high price would also include $$$$ to break the lease. I just don't see H & B being at all interested.
 

No Fun Shogun

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We're just about at 1,000, and news seems to more or less crawled to a standstill, so shutting the Seattle topics down for now.

If Seattle-related NHL news breaks, we can certainly create new topics, and maybe even make a Part VI if the unexpected happens and a lot more smoke starts forming about the NHL heading into the Emerald City.
 
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