News: Seattle Kraken Expansion Draft Thread [Part III]
- Thread starter uncleben
- Start date
this is just like Vegas all over again
multiple 1st round draft picks, MAF, Marchessault, Smith, Neal, Perron, a young Shea Theodore & Alex Tuch are coming Seattle's way tomorrow when the double secret side deals are allowed to be announced.
multiple 1st round draft picks, MAF, Marchessault, Smith, Neal, Perron, a young Shea Theodore & Alex Tuch are coming Seattle's way tomorrow when the double secret side deals are allowed to be announced.
Don’t forget getting Alex Tuch for picking some stiff Edit: for picking Haula instead of a D from Minny.
Not impressed so far. Think Seattle overplayed their hands when it came to prices, and in THE END they could not taken players like Tara, JVR, Domi etc since the team refused to pay. IF Im a UFA and wanna win, not signing with Seattle, so in the end, what are they gonna so with all that cap?
dogbazinho
Registered User
Did Seattle realize they are battling with Arizona for cap room, cause experience is going to beat patience.
Willis88
Registered User
Seattles team is a marketing nightmare. Those sold out season ticket fans are going to be so upset. Tough sell with a team full of cap space and depth players.
Ron Francis was way in over his head with this.
Ron Francis was way in over his head with this.
kladorf2005
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- Apr 20, 2018
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What did all of the picks and prospects have to do with them making the SCF in their first season?
All I'm saying is that I find it hilarious how many people are acting like Seattle is going to set a record for fewest points next season. When those same people said the exact same thing about Vegas 4 years ago.
Has nothing to do with the sustained success Vegas was able to have due to all those draft picks and prospects.
Seattle will make the playoffs in 2022. I am going to bet on it. And I'll be eating my popcorn, scrolling through HF while I count my winnings in April.
It can be argued that Francis missed out on picks to stay away from players, but mostly what i heard was that GMs were trying to trade picks to get Seattle to take on large contracts.
Staying away from those contacts, (unless there is absolutely a 1st round pick coming back), is smart. GM's balked at the cost of a first, so no deals happened.
In my perspective, cap space in 2022 will have double the value(or more) than cap space in past years had, and a mid 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round pick in this 2021 draft hold very little value, as I don't think it is going to produce too many regular NHL players.
Look at the athletic article comparing to Vegas - Seattle actually has a slightly better forecasted team - and 30 million in cap space still - well
Minus the draft pick capital thus far but lineup wise !
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kladorf2005
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They have $28M in cap space.If not much changes, I'll gladly take you on that bet
Still a lot of changes left to happen
Vegas is good but They better win a cup soon, if you look at their players they’re not young even though there an expansion franchise from just 4 years ago. They have enough prospects to make one good trade high end and then their cupboard is completely empty. Their window is now which is great but in 2 years if they don’t win are not in a good place…
They used some of those assets to acquire players like Brassard, Reaves, Tatar, Kolesar, and Pacioretty. Tuch and Theodore became prominent players on their team in subsequent years. Honestly, what prospects did Seattle accumulate that have that potential besides Geekie (blah blah, hindsight, but those were highly touted prospects at the time)?
I don't know or care if Seattle makes the playoffs next year. That's not the point. I also don't care what people on HF said about VGK at the time.
My point is this was an abject failure of an expansion draft compared to Vegas. It's painfully obvious.
I wonder though if he would have been a little bit more reasonable in his approach if he could have gotten some stuff out of teams.
Like just an example maybe he goes to Minny and says something like hey I know your in a tough spot so how about this; you get Parise to waive and trade him to us with 50% retention, we get the later of your two 1st rounders which is 25th overall and you direct us to the player you want us to pick as long as they can be a roster player for us maybe someone like Carson Soucy?
So now Seattle gets a $3,769,231 Zach Parise who they can play in their top 9 as a solid veteran LW, or even flip with with more retention (can only be done twice), 25th overall and the player they got in the first place in Carson Soucy. Minny sheds $6,519,231 in cap space, doesn't have to buy out Suter and gets to keep the rest of their roster in tact. They still go into this offseason with more than enough space to make Kaprizov a good offer.
didimentionlarseller
Snipers are a dying bread in the NHL
Willis88
Registered User
That proves nothing to me honestly. Also I love how many draft picks Vegas acquired compared to Seattle's zero. Huge missed opportunity.
Agreed on #2.
Re #1: Players who had close to or more than 0.5PPG last year (most without much PP time):
McCann (.75ppg, 14MPG, 10 PPP)
Donskoi (.60ppg, 14 MPG, 8 PPP)
Jarnkrok (.57ppg, 17mpg, 8 PPP)
Tanev(.50ppg, 14mpg, 0 PPP)
Blackwell(.47PPG, 14MPG, 5 PPP)
Appleton (.45PPG, 14MPG. 0 PPP)
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I don't think this team is as bad offensively as people are expecting -- I'd say they are missing two top-6 players. They'll have a solid group of 4 lines though and should score by committee.
They also have the #2 pick to work with, which I don't think is a top-6 player to start the year, but might be a top-6 player to end the year.
You may be right and there was some value to skim had he played more of a poker hand, but I think his approach from the start was just "no, we are not taking on extra unnecessary cap in any deal". Which I'll admit, looks bad now, but may turn out to be quite smart in a year or two.
I don't think Minnesota was viable target though to extort any picks from. Neither Suter or Parise would waive and apparently the buy-out discussion had been in the works for a long time.
Furthermore, even if they waived to go to Seattle, Minny couldn't risk letting either leave for fear of them retiring. The retirement cap recapture was so bad in those final 3 years that the buyout actually makes sense on some level, at least for Parise - Suter was still mostly worth his cap hit, so I can't personally justify the move, but i guess Guerin felt he needed the 10 million to sign Kaprizov... maybe?
kladorf2005
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The bolded is exactly what I find to be hilarious. You probably said the exact same thing 4 years ago. I know the vast majority of people in the hockey world did.
Also, why bother replying to me if you're making a different point than I made? I said people thought Vegas would suck and they were wrong given they made SCF in first season. I said people are now making the same mistake with Seattle, and they will eat their words when they make the playoffs as an expansion team. Now you say you don't care if they make playoffs because they are doomed long term since they didn't get the trades Vegas got. When did I ever mention anything about their long term future?
You know what? I don't care. Don't bet on Seattle to make the playoffs. Or better yet, bet against them. (my original and only point... again)
I don't think we ever got confirmation that Parise wouldn't waive. We know Suter wouldn't but Parise was willing to waive before but deals just couldn't get done. Maybe he would have said hell no I won't go there but there is the possibility he would have taken a waive over a massive pay cut in a buyout.
There also other teams like Nashville who likely would have been willing to give up some assets to keep their roster intact.
This. ^^^
Seattle will not be able to compete with Vegas or Colorado in the west in the next two years. They are going to be two of the top four odds on favorites to win everything, but both teams are likely to be in trouble in 3 years. Colorado is going to have major cap issues, and almost all of Vegas' core is going to be in their early to mid 30s.
That is when Seattle's window will be open. Building to start competing then should be the plan.
But the point remains, even if Parise asked for a trade, Minnesota could not risk moving him due to the risk of retirement recapture penalty.
on Nashville, all i heard was their desire to onload cap. Pretty sure they would still trade Duchene or Johansen for next to nothing to get out of those contracts. And taking either on, even with picks as incentive would be cap suicide.
The Arvidsson move was strictly a cap dump in my opinion. Poile wanted to get out of that contract, and used Seattle as a smokescreen to avoid the negative PR he knew he's get from moving a struggling top 6 forward on a big contract that was well liked in the dressing room.
joepeps
Registered User
Playing 3rd and 4th line min against other 3rd and 4th liners... not the same as playing against top lines every game.
Johnasen is usable for the next 4 seasons if you could have gotten them to retain some while getting assets back.
Arthur Morgan
Registered User
Who knows maybe after Vegas Expansion Draft teams decided to just lose the player and move on
IMO this was a complete failure of a draft
Not finding a way to even pry a 6th for a player they werent going to take anyways is crazy
If I paid 600m or whatever it was and ended up with this team I would not be very happy with Ron Francis right about now.
Hell I would have gambled and taken Tarasenko to retain 50% and trade for a haul.
feel bad for Seattle fans
IMO this was a complete failure of a draft
Not finding a way to even pry a 6th for a player they werent going to take anyways is crazy
If I paid 600m or whatever it was and ended up with this team I would not be very happy with Ron Francis right about now.
Hell I would have gambled and taken Tarasenko to retain 50% and trade for a haul.
feel bad for Seattle fans
