Post-Game Talk: Season over 5 games in

[Drivesaitl]

The rosters were flawed for sure but there are issues around the fragility of this leadership group.
I mean why is it that a team with considerably less talent than the Oilers can play a system that makes them hard to play against and this team cant?
Where does the resistance to adopt a more defensive approach lie?
What is the reason for the inability to start a season strong after so much hot air from the leadership group about starting off strong?
Why is this team still so mentally fragile? They are not a young team anymore.

It reminds of the team response to the slash on Drai against Vegas.
There was virtually no response. The team provided little to no resistance after that slash and just wimpered out of the playoffs.
Season done. The Oilers were an easy out for Veags after that.
There are issues with this team that go beyond holes in the roster.

What you describe are not issues with the Oilers superstars They are issues that exist in NHL hockey through time. The LA Kings with Marcel Dionne and the Royal Crown line didn't have backup and rarely had a cohesive team. The Buffalo Sabres with the French Connection line certainly didn't have a cohesive team and there was a lot of friction there between the stars and the have nots.

What your describing is the nature of most teams that have a couple or few stars. Those teams innately lack the lunch bucket type unity that an Oilers work club had in the late 90's. Thats basically what you get when your team is led by superstars and lets be clear too, that McDrai are not pariahs. They are not even close to the worst in terms of arrogance or such. Drai was spending hours trying to help a player (Puljujarvi) that the fanbase were mocking with glee. Drai was also very supportive of a player (Yamamoto) that I had little time for. This is a phenomenal team guy. Leon is supportive to team. Leon leads. Does everything for the team.

Indeed its the org, and what that org thinks of itself for decades (great and beyond approach) that captures more of what the team is about. We don't get the feel here because for fans but to most of the league the Oilers org is a joke and thats fully deserved for a longtime.

Problems even with the unconditional support of the market. In several markets teams have to be successful to sustain sold out houses or fan support. This one takes it for granted because they can. The org not only takes fans for granted they raise prices on em.

I get a little sick of people constantly blaming the two players who really are the only present reason to even watch or follow the Edmonton OIlers.

Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl are great. Anybody would have them and any other fanbase wouldn't be busy thinking these are inherently flawed players. No, they play for an inherently flawed ORG.

 

[guymez]

What you describe are not issues with the Oilers superstars They are issues that exist in NHL hockey through time. The LA Kings with Marcel Dionne and the Royal Crown line didn't have backup and rarely had a cohesive team. The Buffalo Sabres with the French Connection line certainly didn't have a cohesive team and there was a lot of friction there between the stars and the have nots.

What your describing is the nature of most teams that have a couple or few stars. Those teams innately lack the lunch bucket type unity that an Oilers work club had in the late 90's. Thats basically what you get when your team is led by superstars and lets be clear too, that McDrai are not pariahs. They are not even close to the worst in terms of arrogance or such.

Indeed its the org, and what that org thinks of itself for decades (great and beyond approach) that captures more of what the team is about. We don't get the feel here because for fans but to most of the league the Oilers org is a joke and thats fully deserved for a longtime.

Problems even with the unconditional support of the market. In several markets teams have to be successful to sustain sold out houses or fan support. This one takes it for granted because they can. The org not only takes fans for granted they raise prices on em.

I get a little sick of people constantly blaming the two players who really are the only present reason to even watch or follow the Edmonton OIlers.

Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl are great. Anybody would have them and any other fanbase wouldn't be busy thinking these are inherently flawed players. No, they play for an inherently flawed ORG.

Well...your comparison using the LA Kings from 5 decades ago is a little much.
I mean while your at it why not post some Howie Meeker quotes form the 60's and bring up players like Stan Mikita and Gordie Howe...lol

That aside...where did I say that I was blaming 2 players? I said the leadership group.
That likely contains 4 or more players and yes I do think that leadership has been and still is an issue with this team.

I also dont buy the market argument because its quite obvious that the Edmonton market is not a market where you are trying to 'sell' hockey. Edmonton hockey fans (by and large) understand what it takes to win Cups.
If you were talking about a California market or another US market then maybe that would have some relevancy...but we arent.

Lastly...I didnt realize that Leon and Connor were sacred cows and above any and all accountability.
Good to know.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I also dont buy the market argument because its quite obvious that the Edmonton market is not a market where you are trying to 'sell' hockey. Edmonton hockey fans (by and large) understand what it takes to win Cups.
If you were talking about a California market or another US market then maybe that would have some relevancy...but we arent.

Lastly...I didnt realize that Leon and Connor were sacred cows and above any and all accountability.
Good to know.

Well they're clearly not to you. But on merit they should be. Gee, maybe they should be much better than the two best players in hockey. Thats how insufferable that type of opinion is. People can complain about a lot but to complain about what McDrai lay out on the ice is to me always going to be ridiculous. Ungrateful even.

If you want to look at others Nurse is certainly not beyond reproach, can be critiqued and is not earning his salary. Nuge, in defense grew up here on a club and org that was hopeless and still managed to find his way out but some of the way he was for years was probably due to the org, and the team not even having a chance of being competitive most of his time here.

Who else do you include in the leadership group? Kane? lol, he's rarely been that.

Hyman had done everything asked of him and more.

On this team the goaltending is not sufficeint, the D not sufficient, and the bottomsix and depth is MISERABLE.

 

[guymez]

Well they're clearly not to you. But on merit they should be. Gee, maybe they should be much better than the two best players in hockey. Thats how insufferable that type of opinion is. People can complain about a lot but to complain about what McDrai lay out on the ice is to me always going to be ridiculous. Ungrateful even.

If you want to look at others Nurse is certainly not beyond reproach, can be critiqued and is not earning his salary. Nuge, in defense grew up here on a club and org that was hopeless and still managed to find his way out but some of the way he was for years was probably due to the org, and the team not even having a chance of being competitive most of his time here.

Who else do you include in the leadership group? Kane? lol, he's rarely been that.

Hyman had done everything asked of him and more.

On this team the goaltending is not sufficeint, the D not sufficient, and the bottomsix and depth is MISERABLE.

If you think that Connor and Leon are above being accountable and you want to qualify any conversation about where their games could be better as being ungrateful....then good for you.
Honestly I think thats quite ridiculous but you are entitled to your opinion.

Now...in terms of the leadership group...all we can do is guess. I was just refuting your assertion that it was all on Leon and Connor.

 

[Drivesaitl]

If you think that Connor and Leon are above being accountable and you want to qualify any conversation about where their games could be better as being ungrateful....then good for you.
Honestly I think thats quite ridiculous but you are entitled to your opinion.

Now...in terms of the leadership group...all we can do is guess. I was just refuting your assertion that it was all on Leon and Connor.

I'm saying that McDrai have earned regard. They've more than earned it. They've done that through their entire time here.

I don't blame the great generational superstars for a teams failings. That isn't ridiculous, its rational.

No two players, possibly in the history of an NHL club has been required to pull the club mostly by themselves to the same extent. The McDrai pointshares on goals scored by the team during their tenure is off the charts. No other teams or players even close.

ffs I've been here through it all. I remember posters here flaming Lasy Drai and that was his fault he couldn't make complete duds like Khaira or Caggiulia piss a drop. The org had him playing with fools like that on a lot of nights.

Wasn't till we got Hyman that we could even envision a topsix here that made any sense and didn't have blanks on it.

 

[guymez]

I'm saying that McDrai have earned regard. They've more than earned it. They've done that through their entire time here.

I don't blame the great generational superstars for a teams failings. That isn't ridiculous, its rational.

No two players, possibly in the history of an NHL club has been required to pull the club mostly by themselves to the same extent. The McDrai pointshares on goals scored by the team during their tenure is off the charts. No other teams or players even close.

ffs I've been here through it all. I remember posters here flaming Lasy Drai and that was his fault he couldn't make complete duds like Khaira or Caggiulia piss a drop. The org had him playing with fools like that on a lot of nights.

Wasn't till we got Hyman that we could even envision a topsix here that made any sense and didn't have blanks on it.

Nice strawman.
All good.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Nice strawman.
All good.

Please. you were the one touting "sacred cows" "unaccountable" and saying other opinion is "ridiculous".

What are you talking about? I expanded on the topic. I also asked you who you think the core is since I see you blaming McDrai a lot and questioning the leadership when they are clearly the leaders of this club. Really i would think the leadership of the club is composed of Mcdrai. Maybe thats a bit of the problem with the amount of leaders being so short. One can put Nuge on there last season and this one but prior to that not. Formerly one could put Nurse there but our leadership core seems limited in number. So again expand on who you think is lacking in leadership.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

I have no faith in this team at all as of right now

This is going to be a painful 2 weeks and season

We’re completely f***ed, it’s joever

You say this every season.

 

[KlefDown]

You say this every season.

which season was I wrong?

2010? 2011? 2012? 2013? 2014? 2015? 2016? 2017? 2018? 2019? 2020? 2021? 2022? 2023?

imagine being a fan of the team for over a decade and saying "its only X games" "wait till trade deadline" "wait till draft" "wait till free agency" "wait till we see how they perform on-ice" and still consider yourself a sane person

 

[M Ace]

It's a hard pill to swallow, but: at this point trading Draisaitl for a serviceable forward plus an elite defense+goalie gives us a better chance at the cup.

We've seen this tape run 7 times now in the McDavid era. The chances of a cup with this level of D-core and goaltending are zero.

The chances of a cup after a crazy trade are low, but they are higher than zero.

Flame away, but the reality is that it is true. I don't want it to happen, but it is true.

Draisaitl for McAvoy & Swayman?

 

[Anarchism]

Draisaitl for McAvoy & Swayman?

bigger

 

[guymez]

Please. you were the one touting "sacred cows" "unaccountable" and saying other opinion is "ridiculous".

What are you talking about? I expanded on the topic. I also asked you who you think the core is since I see you blaming McDrai a lot and questioning the leadership when they are clearly the leaders of this club. Really i would think the leadership of the club is composed of Mcdrai. Maybe thats a bit of the problem with the amount of leaders being so short. One can put Nuge on there last season and this one but prior to that not. Formerly one could put Nurse there but our leadership core seems limited in number. So again expand on who you think is lacking in leadership.

You expanded on the topic...lol

You misrepresented my position and then argued against that misrepresentation.

Yes I think that there is a leadership problem. In other posts I talked about the leadership of vet players like Duncan Keith.
This team badly needs something like that IMO.

 

[Soundwave]

You expanded on the topic...lol

You misrepresented my position and then argued against that misrepresentation.

Yes I think that there is a leadership problem. In other posts I talked about the leadership of vet players like Duncan Keith.
This team badly needs something like that IMO.

Team loses 8-1 on opening night and Woodcroft cancels practice.

Team loses to Philly and Woodcroft has a 15 minute practice and then leaves.

Yesterday they practiced the PP and PK only.

This coach runs baby poop soft practices and people here are wondering why they are slow starters.

Last year they started slow and finally had a practice with actual battle drills in it and McDavid basically said "Finally, a good practice".

Jay Woodcroft doesn't run hard practices, runs a candy ass training camp, maybe the pay off is the team has more juice later in the second half of the regular season, but this right now is the down side of his approach.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You expanded on the topic...lol

You misrepresented my position and then argued against that misrepresentation.

Yes I think that there is a leadership problem. In other posts I talked about the leadership of vet players like Duncan Keith.
This team badly needs something like that IMO.

I misrepresented your position because thats what you do in nearly every exchange. you don't like it do you?

But worse you don't even read other peoples posts before reply. You respond with what you assume posters state. Which makes discussion quite difficult.

In anycase I was modeling it back to you.

 

[guymez]

I misrepresented your position because thats what you do in nearly every exchange. you don't like it do you?

But worse you don't even read other peoples posts before reply. You respond with what you assume posters state. Which makes discussion quite difficult.

In anycase I was modeling it back to you.

So now you guide this exchange to a...."well I think that you do it so I am going to do it too".

Maybe ignore is the best option here.

 

[Drivesaitl]

So now you guide this exchange to a...."well you do it so I am going to do it too".

Maybe ignore is the best option here.

I reserve the option with certain posters. FTR I don't see that it has to be this way. But I do feel pushback, appropriately engaged, is acceptable at times.

To be clear no animosity. A bit of frustration with how some of the exchanges have gone. I will say this, in global views we tend to agree on a lot and that should be enough to be able to further exchange on some or most topics.
.