Post-Game Talk: Season high win streak ended; Habs lose 4-0 to LA.

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
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I think the biggest thing has been Petry playing absolutely awful so far this year. I know people like to **** on Alzner, but he's been solid the last two games away from Petry. Ever since we got Petry our defence has either looked solid or like absolute garbage, when he plays well he gives us two solid pairings and can eat minutes but when he struggles he's an absolute disaster and it effects our whole D.

I'm not sure that's really the case. With the caveat that Petry can and should be better than he is and that he's defenitely struggling defensively, He's been better away from Alzner than vice versa.

He hasn't actually allowed any goals the last two games, has consistently helped drive the play forward (something that Alzner doesn't do). He hits more effectively as well and his xGA and scoring chances against are better than Alzner.

Alzner and Petry have both been bad defensively this year. Only one moves the puck though. Alzner has more points, but its not sustainable and wont last.
 

Runner77

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Jun 24, 2012
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To clarify, I'm not saying Montreal is fine in the grit/size category, I'm just saying that it isn't the most pressing concern. Plenty of WC teams succeed with less size against others in their conference. The same is true of other EC teams, like Tampa.

Couldn't agree more. It's not a priority when your team has many glaring basic weaknesses. I said as much when after my optimized asset mix comment.

And while you probably aren't going to find elite talent without top picks, it doesn't mean that you can't do it. Toronto found Bozak and Zaitsev as undrafted free agents and made favourable trades for JVR and Gardiner. Matthews is THE piece and Nylander, Marner and Kadri play massive roles, but a lot of the other pieces are the result of late picks, savvy trades, creative scouting and good development.

Tampa's two most important players were high picks and Sergachev was only acquired with Drouin, but the core is mostly savvy scouting and development. Johnson was undrafted, Palat was a 7th round pick, Kucherov was a late 2nd and Stralman was a UFA. Killorn and Point were 3rd rounders, Namestiknov was a late 1st and Vasilevsky went 19th.

To enable those savvy, creative and good superlatives, you need equally savvy, creative and good management. We don't have it and we haven't had it for a very long time. Find it and then it's something to look at. However, both of the teams you named previously, Trana and Pittsburgh, are doing it on the backs of very favorable early picks. There's no getting around that.

You don't need to build your entire team through the draft. You need to draft and develop well, make smart UFA signings, make good trades and leave no stone unturned when augmenting organizational depth.

Same answer as before. Find me a smart and good management team that will leave no stone unturned. We don't have it. The owner is sugarcoating the team's outlook while his focus is distracted by other corporate and business pursuits.

Montreal has young pieces to build around. Drouin has been far from perfect at center, but if the team doesn't screw with him the way they did Galchenyuk, he can probably be a decent 1a/1b center. He's been very good at creating scoring chances. Galchenyuk can still be either a good trade asset, or if moved to center, another potentially strong offensive center. Gallagher is still elite at generating chances and possession and is both youngish and cheap. Lehkonen has serious upside. Hudon looks like he can be a decent middle-6 winger. Danault is probably a capable bottom-6 center. They also have other vets that they can keep to help shepherd a rebuild.

I very much like the idea of building around Drouin, Galchenyuk and Lehkonen. I see Hudon as a complementary piece. Gallagher is on a good contract, I'd wait and see. IMHO, Danault is best used as a third liner, not a bottom six. He shouldn't be on a 2nd line except temporarily, as a stopgap in the event of an injury. You can add Mete as one of the high IQ players that can be part of your core.

They also have far more in the way of trade assets than most bottom feeders if they choose to tank. And the team can probably get a few good pieces in this draft if they tank properly. But the front office HAS to get better at player evaluation and pick a direction. The CHaracter vision doesn't work and the front office's inability to understand analytics will forever hold them back when making trades.
They may have a decent number of trading assets but they also have too many albatross contracts that may require them swallowing a bitter pill in the form of incoming undesirables in order to get rid of a greater undesirable and/or eating salary and/or flat out additions by subtraction. Now, who is this front office that has to get better? The current one has had more than enough time to get better at player evaluation, establish a plan, execute the plan and use analytics efficiently.

The front office you speak of does not exist within this organization right now. But it can be had. They need to clean house first and that begins with replacing Geoff, the President of Hockey Flops, by a savvy and experienced hockey expert as the new President of Hockey Operations, to whom Bergevin and his minions will report from now til the end of the season. And while the new PHO is in place, he should be mandated to conduct a full and extensive audit of all hockey personnel and all individuals who are under the direct control and management of Bergevin. Other than day-to-day matters, Bergevin's other decisions should be under the direct control of the PHO.

The NHL is a youth league. With the proper pieces in place, it does not take long to rebound. But they need to be in place.

You can't have the proper pieces in place if you don't have a management team that knows what those pieces are, what to do with them, how to make them better, how to add to them and how to devise a plan that optimizes them toward the ultimate goal. Give all the tools to an incompetent overseer and he won't be able to tell the difference.
 
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admiralcadillac

Registered User
Oct 22, 2017
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When you look at the team, no one who was supposed to have a stable or reasonable season has even come close to being as good as they can be. Outside of maybe Byron and Gallagher - Petry, Shaw, Pacioretty, Alzner, Benn, Plekanec even Lehkonen have all been doing very little on the ice. Not a single one of those guys is even playing at their normal or average.
 

Saint Patrick

2 rings in my hears
Feb 14, 2007
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Dont get me wrong, I love Subban on the team, but odds are if Subban is here Mete doesnt make the team. I'd still rather Subban over Weber but I dont doubt for a second that Weber makes an excellent mentor, and is probably the reason Mete is still here. Still miss PK though, but he isnt at the "mentorship" level of his career yet. IMHO of course
 

groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
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Interesting you aren't doing the same, hence the irony

I speak a few languages, including obloquy, so I responded in kind to assist your understanding of my point. You're welcome.

99% posts of my posts are strictly hockey / thread related; I usually deviate solely to provide assistance and encouragement, as I did for you. You're welcome.
 

G0bias

Registered User
Oct 4, 2007
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Dont get me wrong, I love Subban on the team, but odds are if Subban is here Mete doesnt make the team. I'd still rather Subban over Weber but I dont doubt for a second that Weber makes an excellent mentor, and is probably the reason Mete is still here. Still miss PK though, but he isnt at the "mentorship" level of his career yet. IMHO of course

Weber is the reason Mete is still here. C'mon man, really?
How about Mete arguably being the best defenseman since the start is the reason he's still here. That and management being desperate.

And everyone who played next to Subban have historically seen their game benefit much more than those with/without Weber. PK makes everyone next to him look good even more so than Weber, as he can actually do it all.
 
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Prettyisland

Registered User
Oct 23, 2017
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When you look at the team, no one who was supposed to have a stable or reasonable season has even come close to being as good as they can be. Outside of maybe Byron and Gallagher - Petry, Shaw, Pacioretty, Alzner, Benn, Plekanec even Lehkonen have all been doing very little on the ice. Not a single one of those guys is even playing at their normal or average.
Gally game has been great in my opinion
 

admiralcadillac

Registered User
Oct 22, 2017
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I speak a few languages, including obloquy, so I responded in kind to assist your understanding of my point. You're welcome.

99% posts of my posts are strictly hockey / thread related; I usually deviate solely to provide assistance and encouragement, as I did for you. You're welcome.

You were being condescending and criticizing me for what you perceived as me criticizing other posters instead of the content of their posts (which is ironic). Feel free to ignore me
 

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