Sean Couturier Part IV (2019-20 Selke Trophy Winner)

[baudib1]

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I would expect that, going forward, Couts will generally be better than Giroux. It's possible he'll have more years like last season, where he's a top 5 MVP candidate. This season, Giroux has still been great, but probably more like a top 30 player, while Couts has been a top 10-20 guy.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

I don’t necessarily think that it’s clean cut one is better than the other. Coots clearly impacts the game in more facets than g, in my opinion. Coots can neutralize the opponents top line unlike few other forwards whilst still providing first line offense. G’s peak offense is more potent and explosive. But I think g is more likely to be negated by other teams top forwards. Good to have both.

 

[Ruck Over]

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I would expect that, going forward, Couts will generally be better than Giroux. It's possible he'll have more years like last season, where he's a top 5 MVP candidate. This season, Giroux has still been great, but probably more like a top 30 player, while Couts has been a top 10-20 guy.

That's fair, and highly agreeable.

Best case scenario for Giroux is following a path similar to Steve Yzerman. Got all of his team success late, and having been a top dog was decidedly not the best player (forward) on the team when winning Cups.

 

[Striiker]

I'd definitely say Giroux is still our best player.

The offensive gap would be more clear, like last years, if it wasn't for the coaches f***ing the PP, Giroux spending a ton of time on a broken 5v5 line for no reason, and being constantly stuck with Hagg. He’s playing even better than his scoring would suggest.

G scored more at even strength last year and is again scoring more this year, despite the coaches sabotage... and obviously the PP scoring is not even remotely close. His offense is unmatched and that's too important to ignore.

But it's super close because Couturier is amazing too. If I were to make up video game ratings for each of them, it'd probably be something like Giroux 95, Couturier 93.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Couturier is the most important player on the team, no question in my mind. Last year’s playoffs showed it. I think his play this season has showed it, also, considering the team’s record after he got over his injury & went on a scoring tear.

 

[Tripod]

It's just nice to have both. Giroux can't be the 2-way beast that Couts can. But Couts can't be the PP QB that Giroux is. That's why you need a blend of good players. No one is perfect so having multiple high end guys with slightly different strengths is a great thing.

Just like on D.

 

[FlyTimmo]

The fact that it is even a worthy discussion is a huge compliment to Couts.

 

[baudib1]

Giroux is still an elite point scorer, playmaker, FO guy, and, we assume, elite PP QB, who can play all 3 forward positions.

He's still a great play driver, but he doesn't carry every combination you throw him out there with, as we saw with JVR-Giroux-TK. It's probably a combination of short slump, bad matchups and fit, and a system that doesn't really favor JVR.

Couturier makes every line he plays on dominant these days.

 

[Striiker]

Giroux is still an elite point scorer, playmaker, FO guy, and, we assume, elite PP QB, who can play all 3 forward positions.

He's still a great play driver, but he doesn't carry every combination you throw him out there with, as we saw with JVR-Giroux-TK. It's probably a combination of short slump, bad matchups and fit, and a system that doesn't really favor JVR.

Couturier makes every line he plays on dominant these days.

Not true.

Up until that Lindblom-Couturier-Voracek line was put together, Couts had 32 points in 42 games (62 point pace).
After it was put together, 33 points in 25 games (108 point pace).

He's been absolutely on fire since that point, but that's made people forget his relatively slow start to the year.


Meanwhile...
Before that JVR-G-TK line, Giroux had 48 points in 44 games
While on that line, 15 points in 18 games
And since being saved from that line, 10 points in 7 games.
In other words, 58 points in 51 games (93 point pace) when not on that broken line, but still with jumbled lines and while playing all three positions.


So if anything, Giroux has been the more consistently dominant player.

 

[baudib1]

Not true.

Up until that Lindblom-Couturier-Voracek line was put together, Couts had 32 points in 42 games (62 point pace).
After it was put together, 33 points in 25 games (108 point pace).

He's been absolutely on fire since that point, but that's made people forget his relatively slow start to the year.


Meanwhile...
Before that JVR-G-TK line, Giroux had 48 points in 44 games
While on that line, 15 points in 18 games
And since being saved from that line, 10 points in 7 games.
In other words, 58 points in 51 games (93 point pace) when not on that broken line, but still with jumbled lines and while playing all three positions.


So if anything, Giroux has been the more consistently dominant player.

I'm not talking about scoring. The JVR-Giroux-TK line was legitimately bad. Giroux himself played poorly throughout that stretch. JVR's possession numbers are actually better away from Giroux than with him, and he's been playing with a lot of 3rd-line players this year.

 

[Striiker]

I'm not talking about scoring. The JVR-Giroux-TK line was legitimately bad. Giroux himself played poorly throughout that stretch. JVR's possession numbers are actually better away from Giroux than with him, and he's been playing with a lot of 3rd-line players this year.

The point is Couturier doesn’t carry every combination he plays on or make every line dominant, as you claimed.

Giroux has done a better job than Couturier at that.

The fact that the only time Giroux wasn’t dominating was when he was with that broken line proves that the problem was the combination of players, not Giroux. Before that line and after that line, he was dominant, even with many different combinations and playing all 3 spots. Meanwhile Couturier only reached a dominant level once with a specific combination, which has mostly remained together.

As for JVR, yeah, of course his numbers are better when on the 3rd line and playing against much worse players. He didn't belong on that top line and was the big reason it didn't work.

 

[Stizzle]

Sean "3C" Couturier

 

[Magua]

Sean "3C" Couturier

And that’s with lower (in many cases 3x lower) PP GAR than all the others (ironically he did most of his damage on PP2). His ES GAR is the highest on that list. Higher than McDavid.

 

[deadhead]

Not true.

Up until that Lindblom-Couturier-Voracek line was put together, Couts had 32 points in 42 games (62 point pace).
After it was put together, 33 points in 25 games (108 point pace).

He's been absolutely on fire since that point, but that's made people forget his relatively slow start to the year.

You mean the month he lost to the MCL injury where he rushed back to help the team?
October 12g 4-0 4 -4
Since 57g 24-39 63 +16

 

[FlyerEra2010]

You mean the month he lost to the MCL injury where he rushed back to help the team?
October 12g 4-0 4 -4
Since 57g 24-39 63 +16

He scored a hat trick directly after Gudas destroyed his MCL so clearly that didn't affect him.

 

[Juicy Pop]

It's almost hard to process just how reserved and efficient his game is visually. That little board pass was probably the flashiest thing I've seen from him all year.

 

[Jtown]

Sean "3C" Couturier

so he dropped? I knew he was having a subpar year.

 

[Jtown]

It's almost hard to process just how reserved and efficient his game is visually. That little board pass was probably the flashiest thing I've seen from him all year.

there is no sex to his game its all meat and potatoes and he doesn't cheat at one end to be in better position at the other end, something that I can't say about a lot of our forwards.

 

[Deadpool8812]

The only way he doesn't win the Selke this season is the bias from the voters towards past winners

 

[Jtown]

The only way he doesn't win the Selke this season is the bias from the voters towards past winners

not making the playoffs will prevent him from winning it.

 

[Branko]

Is this the year he wins the Selke? I would think Mark Stone has got to be the favorite.

 

[AdamParrot]

5-on-5:
CF%: 53,25
FF%: 54,44
SF%: 53,65
xGF%: 54,50
OFF-Zone starts: 44,49%

69 points in 70 games
He had 4 points in first 12 games due the month he lost to the MCL injury.
Since then:
58 games: 25-40 = 65 points

+14 (for voters who look at this shit stat)
SH TOI: 165:34 (most between Bergeron, Barkov, ROR, Crosby)

He is incredible.

Who should win Selke this year? My favourite duo is Couturier and ROR.

 

[Rebels57]

Coots at the very least deserves a nomination, but just like Giroux was snubbed for a Hart nod last year, Coots might get snubbed this year.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Couturier is legitimately one of the very best players in the NHL. He processes the game as well as any player I’ve ever seen. His deception defensively is uncanny. Most players don’t even make the effort; he, on the other hand, fools puck carriers into bad plays all of the time.

 

[Jtown]

Couturier is legitimately one of the very best players in the NHL. He processes the game as well as any player I’ve ever seen. His deception defensively is uncanny. Most players don’t even make the effort; he, on the other hand, fools puck carriers into bad plays all of the time.

i can't count how many times puckhandlers miscalculate the radius he covers. He plays it casual and then when you're in striking distance he poke checks the opponent.