Waived: Scrivens Waived, Clears, Assigned to Condors

[Replacement*]

Man, this argument just goes on and on. Defence or goaltending, which one is at fault.

I'd say it's 50/50 but to be honest, how many times did anyone watch Calgary win a game last year that they had absolutely no business winning but their goalies stood on their head and made great saves? First game last year…………….., we should have won that game 5-1. Once again, we lost because of some subpar goaltending.

Goalies have to bail their teams out at times in order to get the W. We were probably the best team at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory on a nightly basis last season.

Mclelland would include the forwards in that who play a big part in the failures of this team. Particularly in the WC wherein when this team isn't scoring they not only abandon D they abandon any facet of their game, even offense, which they are supposed to be good at. The net result is full court press in oilers zone for extended periods of time with forwards barely touching anybody and expecting D, goalies, or a whistle to bail them off the shift.

Mclelland mentions that when the team breaks down the responsibility is shared. When the break out transition isn't there to move the puck out is it the D(Quarterback) or Forwards (Recievers) that are at fault. Mc thinks both are at different times one or the other. Much of the time the forwards on this don't offer proper NZ puck support. They want to be sprung for 60foot passes up ice which every team in the league knows these forwards try to do. I've seen Petry back with the puck trying desperately to hang onto it with not one forward in own zone and his D outlet covered.

 

[AJGass4]

Oh I agree with you there Replacement.

I use to watch with my mouth hanging wide open at the stupidity of the forwards when trying to get out of our zone. I'd watch the winger stand BEHIND an opposing player and expect to get the puck?????????

The gong show was completely shared last season and the goalies did end up being the goat, but I still watched a lot of soft goals go in game after game.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

So with this "argument" what are you trying to achieve exactly Replacement?

 

[Replacement*]

So with this "argument" what are you trying to achieve exactly Replacement?

Its a discussion board, Discussing Scrivens and the team on a Scrivens thread. Am I being inappropriate in any way?

Theres 20some threads on the frontpage I'm saying nothing in. Is it OK if I post in any thread on a topic?

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I just find it to be an interesting discussion and it lends itself into a discussion on how Oiles goalies are impacted here. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong simply having a discussion cordially on the on topic at hand.

Theres no secret hidden agenda.

What am I proving? That I suffer from insomnia.

What are you doing?

Finally, what you consider proof, I don't consider proof.

There's no interesting discussion here. Ben Scrivens was a terrible goalie last year on a terrible team. He lost his job in the preseason being inferior to Andres Nilsson and he was waived.

He has cleared waivers, no one wanted him for free, and he's been assigned to the AHL, and will hopefully be loaned out, because the Oilers have better things to do with their young netminders, Brossoit and Laurikainen, then have Scrivens take starts for no serviceable reason.

That's the beginning and end of the Ben Scrivens discussion in a nut shell. Terrible last season, not good enough to make the team, needs to be sent somewhere so the Oilers can develop guys they want to have as part of the organization.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

You ever notice that on HFOil, the less significant the player the more they're talked about? Reinhart's trade thread eclipsed McDavid's.

 

[bucks_oil]

You're being insufferable, and I want to know to what end, if you just belabouring this point to belabour it, that's basically trolling.

It's fine you post, but it needs to have a point, otherwise it's tantamount to spam. What are you trying to achieve with this argument, that's what I want to know.

If you're point was Scrivens failure was all the team's fault - it's been proven not to be the case
If you're point was he go "tired" - it's been proven not to be the case
If you're point was he didn't get a fair shake - it's been proven not to be the case
If you're point was he's a good guy and deserves a roster spot because he's a good guy - that's a silly notion that doesn't make any realistic sense.


Again, What are you trying to achieve here?

Not to jump to Replacement's defense, but I'll throw out something...

What if the point is just: it's not that simple.

Hockey is a team sport and a two way street. If Scrivens is expected to bail out the team to steal the victory from time to time, then the team is expected to score plenty and/or clear pucks from his goal line on nights when he's struggling with the puck.

Players are not dummies... goalies especially... they are the closest thing to a coach on the ice. When they see forwards hiding behind forecheckers, springing the zone, or failing to chip pucks out... ALL of which are fundamental plays in Bantam... it's going to be a WHOLE LOT HARDER to focus on making that next save.

When mental errors repeat and become fundamental and systematic to the team, other players, especially intelligent players (who see the error for what it is... poor attention to detail) will themselves find it harder to concentrate.

A goalie, almost any goalie, will find it hard to play his best behind a team that systematically fails to do its job defensively. If the argument is that Scrivens started the season poorly... let's not try and pretend that the history doesn't extend back to his first season with the team... these players KNOW each other.

You don't start fresh at game one if in game one player X makes the same dumbfounded play.

THAT, IN A NUTSHELL, IS WHY LOSING REINFORCES ITSELF.... COROLLARY: EACH PLAYER IS GOING TO HAVE A LIMITED TOLERANCE FOR FRUSTRATION THIS YEAR... THE TEAM WILL NEED TO SEE RESULTS QUICKLY TO REINFORCE POSITIVE HABITS AND BUILD MOMENTUM... IF NOT, MCCLELLAN IS GOING TO NEED TO BE GOOD AT PLAYING PSYCHOLOGIST, OR CHIARELLI IS GOING TO HAVE TO GET BUSY

None of this by the way, is me absolving Scrivens for not seizing an opportunity... just saying don't expect much different until this team starts playing for each other... which means supporting each other when mistakes happen and doing so by minimizing your own mental mistakes (physical mistakes do not erode team play and team mojo the same way mental ones do... anyone who's played a team sport knows that)

 

[Replacement*]

There's no interesting discussion here. Ben Scrivens was a terrible goalie last year on a terrible team. He lost his job in the preseason being inferior to Andres Nilsson and he was waived.

He has cleared waivers, no one wanted him for free, and he's been assigned to the AHL, and will hopefully be loaned out, because the Oilers have better things to do with their young netminders, Brossoit and Laurikainen, then have Scrivens take starts for no serviceable reason.

That's the beginning and end of the Ben Scrivens discussion in a nut shell. Terrible last season, not good enough to make the team, needs to be sent somewhere so the Oilers can develop guys they want to have as part of the organization.

Its your conclusion, presumptuous, that Scrivens is a terrible goalie. His whole career other than last season says otherwise. Its my conclusion that there are other things wrong with this club that haven't been fixed and that impacted Scrivens, and Fasth. That will likely further impact the new goalies.

How would you feel if everytime your car broke down and you went to the mechanic they said you needed a new transmission and the new tranny broke down 3 times and you're still being told again you need a new transmission? Would you buy it?

The Oilers are chronically misdiagnosing the salient problems on the club. The last 10 goalies that have been here would vehemently disagree on what the problems here are. Several of them have done so verbally.

The troubleshooting with this org is still off. Really I wish Talbot and Nillson all the luck, their going to have nights where they need it.

 

[Replacement*]

Not to jump to Replacement's defense, but I'll throw out something...

What if the point is just: it's not that simple.

Hockey is a team sport and a two way street. If Scrivens is expected to bail out the team to steal the victory from time to time, then the team is expected to score plenty and/or clear pucks from his goal line on nights when he's struggling with the puck.

Players are not dummies... goalies especially... they are the closest thing to a coach on the ice. When they see forwards hiding behind forecheckers, springing the zone, or failing to chip pucks out... ALL of which are fundamental plays in Bantam... it's going to be a WHOLE LOT HARDER to focus on making that next save.

When mental errors repeat and become fundamental and systematic to the team, other players, especially intelligent players (who see the error for what it is... poor attention to detail) will themselves find it harder to concentrate.

A goalie, almost any goalie, will find it hard to play his best behind a team that systematically fails to do its job defensively. If the argument is that Scrivens started the season poorly... let's not try and pretend that the history doesn't extend back to his first season with the team... these players KNOW each other.

You don't start fresh at game one if in game one player X makes the same dumbfounded play.

THAT, IN A NUTSHELL, IS WHY LOSING REINFORCES ITSELF.... COROLLARY: EACH PLAYER IS GOING TO HAVE A LIMITED TOLERANCE FOR FRUSTRATION THIS YEAR... THE TEAM WILL NEED TO SEE RESULTS QUICKLY TO REINFORCE POSITIVE HABITS AND BUILD MOMENTUM... IF NOT, MCCLELLAN IS GOING TO NEED TO BE GOOD AT PLAYING PSYCHOLOGIST, OR CHIARELLI IS GOING TO HAVE TO GET BUSY

None of this by the way, is me absolving Scrivens for not seizing an opportunity... just saying don't expect much different until this team starts playing for each other... which means supporting each other when mistakes happen and doing so by minimizing your own mental mistakes (physical mistakes do not erode team play and team mojo the same way mental ones do... anyone who's played a team sport knows that)

A very interesting post. Clearly there are some interesting things to be discussed here.

Its clear I also have insomnia.

 

[Mr Positive]

I dont think Scrivens is established either way, good or bad. He was treated fairly in camp though. Its also a good thing we still have Scrivens in the org. He may get another shot and may help us when we need a goalie.

 

[AJGass4]

How about let's just blame Eakins?

He was a terrible coach and screwed everyone!

There.

 

[Dorian2]

I actually learned allot from much of the back and forth here since I last posted and it blew up into some big statistical anomaly. I also hold to my previous stance that Scrivs isn't, wasn't, and nevermore shall be a consideration for any type of starting position.

Through all the fuss, I've found the one anomaly of the team that was never corrected which should have been corrected a long time ago.

The poor coaching. The more I read through this, the more I saw how much certain techniques used was detrimental to the overall state of this team.

That'll change.

Hehe. @ AJGass. That's what it pretty much comes down to. And MacT as well for putting all these players, many of who I think are much better than they've shown, in a position to lose.

This whole discussion wreaks of poor coaching.

 

[Raoul Duke]

you're mistaking some of my premise. This is not a defense of Scrivens. In effect its a defence of most goalies that play here and end up predictably heaped on the teams goalie graveyard.

people drastically underestimate the impact of blowouts and desertion on goalies. I've mentioned it specifically. When a team is getting blown out 6-0 in a game the forwards have to stomach maybe around 10 mins of TOI where the game is out of control. A goalie is facing another 40mins of play and being shelled when his team is buried and he's abandoned. Which happened to the goalies here not less than around 30times last year. After one such game you see an emotional Fasth screaming at his teammates on the bench for letting him hang out to dry.

Does anybody think backstopping this team is easy. Especially if you're passionate, heated, which Scrivens and Fasth obviously are.

I've stated specifically that Scrivens was never a starter and should never have been put into that position. Scrivens suffered the fate of any decent D here. Made to eat a constant diet of more than he's able to handle and punching above his weight class playing 57 games instead of around 40. Scrivens can't handle that, just like our 5-6 can't handle top 4 assignments or our 4 D can't handle being slotted into shutdown assignments.

This team does this routinely to players. Requires them to punch above their weight and watches them fail. Without getting meaningful support at the 3 most critical positions in hockey. Goaltending, D, Center.

I almost feel sorry for Talbot and Nillson. In Talbots case specifically I wonder if he realizes how much of a short straw this is on his career. Nillson can always go back to the KHL. We wreck goailes here. Its what the Oilers do.

Well, Scrivens aside, I agree with all.of this. I just didn't think much of Scrivens anyway.
We do wreck goalies. That in itself doesn't make Scrivens worth keeping. Similar to the way last offseason was a terrible time to fire yet another coach. That in itself didn't mean Eakins shouldn't have been fired.

 

[Raoul Duke]

How about let's just blame Eakins?

He was a terrible coach and screwed everyone!

There.

We can all agree on that!!!

 

[Bangers]

Mclelland would include the forwards in that who play a big part in the failures of this team. Particularly in the WC wherein when this team isn't scoring they not only abandon D they abandon any facet of their game, even offense, which they are supposed to be good at. The net result is full court press in oilers zone for extended periods of time with forwards barely touching anybody and expecting D, goalies, or a whistle to bail them off the shift.

Mclelland mentions that when the team breaks down the responsibility is shared. When the break out transition isn't there to move the puck out is it the D(Quarterback) or Forwards (Recievers) that are at fault. Mc thinks both are at different times one or the other. Much of the time the forwards on this don't offer proper NZ puck support. They want to be sprung for 60foot passes up ice which every team in the league knows these forwards try to do. I've seen Petry back with the puck trying desperately to hang onto it with not one forward in own zone and his D outlet covered.

Kevin Mclelland has come back to coach the Oilers?

Insomnia indeed!

 

[McClelland]

Kevin Mclelland has come bacbottomcoach the Oilers?

Insomnia indeed!

Thx repl. for the chance to drag up titanic from the bottom of the sea!

I dont understand repl. defending shrivens when he throwed dubnyk under the bus very quick ,a goalie who had put up good numbers before in a worse oiler team.

Dont understand its doublestandard because you used dubnyks past against him when the numbers was quite good or maybe stellar if using same parameters(bad team, defense etc) as with defending shrivens.

 

[nexttothemoon]

Say what you will but he had two great nicknames that always showed up in the GDT... depending on how the night was going...

Flip a coin... Sievens/Scrivezina


Talbot/Nilsson... I doubt we'll come up with similarly pithy nicknames for them... but then again I'm probably underestimating the creativity of my fellow HFOil members here.

 

[ZJuice]

I love hearing the room collectively hold their breath every time he goes to play the puck. Lots of cringing also

Also..
Talbutt

 

[ScrillaVilla]

Its your conclusion, presumptuous, that Scrivens is a terrible goalie. His whole career other than last season says otherwise. Its my conclusion that there are other things wrong with this club that haven't been fixed and that impacted Scrivens, and Fasth. That will likely further impact the new goalies.

How would you feel if everytime your car broke down and you went to the mechanic they said you needed a new transmission and the new tranny broke down 3 times and you're still being told again you need a new transmission? Would you buy it?

The Oilers are chronically misdiagnosing the salient problems on the club. The last 10 goalies that have been here would vehemently disagree on what the problems here are. Several of them have done so verbally.

The troubleshooting with this org is still off. Really I wish Talbot and Nillson all the luck, their going to have nights where they need it.

Being that this is just a message board you are basically allowed to say what you want. But you have to be the king of conjecture. Please provide evidence to the bolded. And remember, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

 

[Replacement*]

Kevin Mclelland has come back to coach the Oilers?

Insomnia indeed!

Damn, that's what lack of sleep does.

Thx repl. for the chance to drag up titanic from the bottom of the sea!

I dont understand repl. defending shrivens when he throwed dubnyk under the bus very quick ,a goalie who had put up good numbers before in a worse oiler team.

Dont understand its doublestandard because you used dubnyks past against him when the numbers was quite good or maybe stellar if using same parameters(bad team, defense etc) as with defending shrivens.

As far as Dubnyk another poster stated it earlier. With him you could virtually note the times he was off kilter, unfocused, or rattled. You could almost predict the next red light. But he contributes to the theory I currenly have that its just a matter of time before this club gets to goalies.
In fairness I should have granted similar latitude to Dubs. it was hard to do that to a goailie letting pucks in from center ice because he wasn't paying attention. That in a nutshell was part of the dislike. That with Dubs the bad goals appeared to come when he was just unfocused.

In any case we all have our bias and I have mine. Not saying I don't. I think its part of being a fan.

 

[AlowlyMcOilersfan]

i think Nilsson over Scrivens reflects the current trend in the NHL of going with larger goalies.

 

[McClelland]

i think Nilsson over Scrivens reflects the current trend in the NHL of going with larger goalies.

When the goalies reach nhl level its about talent but youth teams favorite big goalies and of course it starts to show up in the nhl also.

Huge goalies doesnt like to move much they want the puck come to them. The butterfly tecnique suits them really good working on their knees and still cover upstairs too. They can look over a player to see the puck in traffic when "small" ones need to move and look beside the player.

Its about to get the big ones to move in side because their weakness is often that they usually isnt fast as smaller ones.

I prefer talent ones and hope they let talent goalies in every size have the chance to develop from youth , dont like sterotypes it makes ballsports boring missing a lot of
genius.

 

[Beerfish]

The oilers goaltending last year was at least as bad as the bad Dubnyk year, was probably the worst in the league and made our already shaky defense look much worse. For every really terrible play made by the defense that cause a goal there were two highly stoppable shots that went in even if they were not considered terrible goals on the goalie.

 

[Dorian2]

I love hearing the room collectively hold their breath every time he goes to play the puck. Lots of cringing also

Also..
Talbutt

Tank Bot?

 

[Up the Irons]

I'm somewhat on the side that posits that bad team D can cause bad goaltending. And the forwards on this team are as much to blame as the D.

Lazy F + weak D corp --> and + bad G = one of the worst teams in the league.

Blame Eakins , MacT and Lowe!! Everything goes back to them.