Post-Game Talk: SCQ #3 - 8/4/20 | hurricanes @ RANGERS

[Rangers394]

Not coming here to gloat/trash talk or troll as that's not my cup of tea these days. Just wanted to reflect how the Rangers this year remind me a lot of Carolina last year, with a few notable exceptions.

1) Going into last season, most had low expectations for Carolina. Same was true for NYR this season. Carolina struggled early but came on strong in the 2nd half last year, similar to NYR this year.
2) Going into last season, Carolina had one of the youngest teams in the league and the youngest (I think) team in the playoffs, same for NYR this season.
3) Carolina had 2 highly skilled forwards (Aho and Teravainen) and NYR has 2 ( Zib and Panarin).
4) Carolina had a newly drafted #2 OA (Svech), NYR has a newly drafted #2 OA (Kakko)
5) Carolina had some decent, but not great top 6 forwards (Staal, Nino-mid season, Williams), NYR is similar with Kreider, Buch, and Strome.
6) Carolina didn't have that much depth at forward (in fact, many picked them as the worst forward group in a pre-season poll) and NYR doesn't have a lot of depth right now either. They had Wallmark (who is a scratch in Florida right now) as a 3C and McKegg as a 4C. Not too dissimilar to what NYR has now at 3C and same guy at 4C.
7) Canes did have a couple of more known quantities like Martinook (who was injured in the playoffs), McGinn, and Ferland (who was injured/playing injured/missed a lot of the playoffs), but were relying a lot on rookies, AHLrs and journeymen Foegele, Maenalanen, Phil Di Guiseppe (21 games), Clark Bishop (20 games), Victor Rask (26 games), as well as guys like Patrick Brown in the playoffs. Their bottom 6 wasn't thought of as "deep" or "good" last year at all. While it was probably slightly better than NYR's this year, it wasn't substantial IMO.

The differences were clearly blue line, where Carolina was far superior, and Goaltending, where NYR is far superior.

The other difference might be coaching/leadership? I hate to put much stock in intangible stuff and I don't know much about the NYR coaching staff, but Brind'Amour seems to have been able to get everyone to buy into playing the same way. Canes weren't (and still aren't) the most talented team, but they outwork most teams and that's probably due to Brind'Amour.

Canes beat the Caps last year, not because they were better or more skilled, it's because they outworked the Caps, who likely were suffering from some cup hangover.
Canes beat the Isles because although the Isles worked hard and had a good coach also, the Canes could match their work ethic and the Isles were less skilled than Carolina overall.
Canes got their ass handed to them against Boston because Boston was more skilled and Boston works hard. That's a tough matchup for a team like Carolina.

Like I said, I don't know enough about your coach, but I see a lot of similarities between where the teams, particularly at forward. If the NYR can figure out the blue-line, I think they are going to be a very dangerous team.

One of the biggest differences are draft picks, Carolina hits on theirs and they contribute all over the ice, Rangers don't.

We drafted some nice players over the years but have missed out on a lot too. Aho, Geekie, Necas, Foegele, Svechnikov, Pesce, Slavin, McGinn, all these guys were drafted by Carolina and are young and contributing now. We draft Lias, Gropp, Day, Duclair, Nieves, Halverson, etc. They either bust or go play on other teams and contribute. They fill out their bottom 6 with young, energetic guys who can play, we have McKegg and Digsiueppe in our bottom 6.

As an organization, the team needs to change their entire approach when it comes to the draft. Sure, all teams have their draft failures but just because they do it, doesn't mean we need to do it too. This is a dead horse but McIrath over Tarasenko arguably cost the team a cup and right now, the Lias pick looks awful, especially when Necas who many here wanted just had a great first season and we have a huge hole at 2c. Suzuki is another guy who would be perfect at 2c.

Things like this set teams back because now you are trading assets for players you missed out on in the draft and it's a never ending cycle. Say we trade Tony D for a 2c, now we are short an offensive dman. I know Fox is here too but the point is the Rangers need to have a vision and build teams for that vision and draft guys who fit, or else it will be the same old shit.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It couldn't have been more clear.

It looked that as soon as they went down a goal they forgot how to play hockey. I wonder if Panarin/Zibanejad playing like scrubs was on them or bad coaching. Their playoff histories would suggest that they're pretty good playoff performers, particularly Panarin. Mika had a good playoff in 2017, I believe.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

One of the biggest differences are draft picks, Carolina hits on theirs and they contribute all over the ice, Rangers don't.

We drafted some nice players over the years but have missed out on a lot too. Aho, Geekie, Necas, Foegele, Svechnikov, Pesce, Slavin, McGinn, all these guys were drafted by Carolina and are young and contributing now. We draft Lias, Gropp, Day, Duclair, Nieves, Halverson, etc. They either bust or go play on other teams and contribute. They fill out their bottom 6 with young, energetic guys who can play, we have McKegg and Digsiueppe in our bottom 6.

As an organization, the team needs to change their entire approach when it comes to the draft. Sure, all teams have their draft failures but just because they do it, doesn't mean we need to do it too. This is a dead horse but McIrath over Tarasenko arguably cost the team a cup and right now, the Lias pick looks awful, especially when Necas who many here wanted just had a great first season and we have a huge hole at 2c. Suzuki is another guy who would be perfect at 2c.

Things like this set teams back because now you are trading assets for players you missed out on in the draft and it's a never ending cycle. Say we trade Tony D for a 2c, now we are short an offensive dman. I know Fox is here too but the point is the Rangers need to have a vision and build teams for that vision and draft guys who fit, or else it will be the same old shit.

Let's not get too carried away with the Canes' drafts. Maybe in recent years, that's true, but until last year the Canes were a perennial bottom feeder for like a decade.

 

[Rangers394]

Let's not get too carried away with the Canes' drafts. Maybe in recent years, that's true, but until last year the Canes were a perennial bottom feeder for like a decade.

And now they are on the rise. Regardless, this team needs to hit on top 10 picks and find the gems other teams do in the later rounds and they have done it before. Hagelin, Fast, Zucc was undrafted, etc. Can't keep missing out on picks and trading assets for those players we could have drafted.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

What the Canes series made more clear:

1 - Smaller D are fine during the regular season, but not sure we can really carry 2 in the playoffs unless they can defend better. DeAngelo seemed hurt so I will sorta give him a pass. But not convinced he can be a playoff defender yet. Fox looked exhausted on every shift and tried to slow down the play, and no one was having it. He has to find ways to adjust. I can't speak to his defending specifically. But he was hemmed in a lot more than the regular season.

This point about Fox and also DeAngelo, not really his size in particular, but the pace he was playing at in this series is a good one.

They seemed a step behind all series, which can be expected in his first playoff under such weird circumstances. However, what I noticed was a lot of times theywould try and slow down the pace at the wrong times. He'd have a streaking Kreider or Kakko cutting through the NZ and instead of pushing the pace and making that pass they would double back and let everything reset and inevitably allow Carolina to clog the NZ and run their forecheck.

Not sure if it was a confidence issue or if it was one of those things after a long layoff it takes a player some games to get back in a groove and we just didn't have that time. I'm guessing the latter.

The biggest strengths of Fox and TDA is ability to push the pace and keep the tempo up and execute those good counter punch passes. We were missing that entirely this series and it showed. I don't think we should read too much into it, just an observation.

 

[Tawnos]

This point about Fox and also DeAngelo, not really his size in particular, but the pace he was playing at in this series is a good one.

They seemed a step behind all series, which can be expected in his first playoff under such weird circumstances. However, what I noticed was a lot of times theywould try and slow down the pace at the wrong times. He'd have a streaking Kreider or Kakko cutting through the NZ and instead of pushing the pace and making that pass they would double back and let everything reset and inevitably allow Carolina to clog the NZ and run their forecheck.

Not sure if it was a confidence issue or if it was one of those things after a long layoff it takes a player some games to get back in a groove and we just didn't have that time. I'm guessing the latter.

The biggest strengths of Fox and TDA is ability to push the pace and keep the tempo up and execute those good counter punch passes. We were missing that entirely this series and it showed. I don't think we should read too much into it, just an observation.

I think a lot of the young guys had jitters all series. Hell, if Chytil reacts like his normal self last night, the Rangers go up 2-1 because he one-times the puck into an empty net instead of stopping it first.

 

[The S5]

Brind'Amour had a crutch to help him get that buy-in last year: the Bunch of Jerks thing. I don't mean this as a criticism, but a compliment: he did a really great job with it. Not unlike the way Gallant was able to use the fact that all of his expansion guys were cast off by other teams in VGK's inaugural season. Unlike Gallant, though, Brind'Amour seems to have been able to get them to keep the same attitude and identity, once established, for a second year. The Knights were still good in Gallant's second year, but they were missing that edge.

Quinn did actually get the team to take on his strong personality and swagger for a large chunk of this season, but the pause really killed that for them and he wasn't able to recapture it for the post-season. It probably wasn't firmly entrenched enough yet, which is understandable.

On top of that, it's worth mentioning that the Rangers were a better team with Brady Skjei, despite his limitations in the 1LD role.

The bunch of jerks thing was a nice story, but it has nothing to do with the team taking on Rod's system and personality. They are a very young team and their leadership comes from Rod. The guy is in the gym before anyone on his team. He is an incredibly hard worker and it rubs off on his team. On top of that, he is well liked and respected.

Maybe there is something to the thought that Ranger teams are pampered. They have the best of everything. Unlimited nightlife, restaurants etc...The Canes might have the worst practice facility in the NHL (they do have a brand new facility set to open this month). An absolute embarrassment. Raleigh isn't exactly a nightlife hotspot, although there are some good spots downtown. Maybe they can focus more on hockey without all of the big city distractions. Having Rod at the helm to set the example has been a godsend for this group.

 

[The S5]

Let's not get too carried away with the Canes' drafts. Maybe in recent years, that's true, but until last year the Canes were a perennial bottom feeder for like a decade.

A good number of those players were drafted under Ron Francis' time as GM. They weren't instant NHLer's, so it took some time for them to develop. On top of them, they still have a really good pipeline of players in their system.

 

[Rangers394]

The bunch of jerks thing was a nice story, but it has nothing to do with the team taking on Rod's system and personality. They are a very young team and their leadership comes from Rod. The guy is in the gym before anyone on his team. He is an incredibly hard worker and it rubs off on his team. On top of that, he is well liked and respected.

Maybe there is something to the thought that Ranger teams are pampered. They have the best of everything. Unlimited nightlife, restaurants etc...The Canes might have the worst practice facility in the NHL (they do have a brand new facility set to open this month). An absolute embarrassment. Raleigh isn't exactly a nightlife hotspot, although there are some good spots downtown. Maybe they can focus more on hockey without all of the big city distractions. Having Rod at the helm to set the example has been a godsend for this group.

I would hope nightlife and hanging out isn't the reason this Rangers team lost. I like to think that they aren't done being built yet and they got beat by a better team. If they can't handle nightlife and distractions, NY isn't the place for them to be imo

 

[will1066]

2019-2020:

 

[The S5]

I would hope nightlife and hanging out isn't the reason this Rangers team lost. I like to think that they aren't done being built yet and they got beat by a better team. If they can't handle nightlife and distractions, NY isn't the place for them to be imo

Did you forget what it was like to be in your early 20's? Add to that a pocket full of cash and unlimited opportunities.
I'm not saying they shouldn't go out and have some fun, but the big city can definitely be a distraction.

 

[Thirty One]

Did you forget what it was like to be in your early 20's? Add to that a pocket full of cash and unlimited opportunities.
I'm not saying they shouldn't go out and have some fun, but the big city can definitely be a distraction.

I believe they were in a bubble.

 

[Rangers394]

Did you forget what it was like to be in your early 20's? Add to that a pocket full of cash and unlimited opportunities.
I'm not saying they shouldn't go out and have some fun, but the big city can definitely be a distraction.

I'm in my 20s so i have a bit of an idea lol but hopefully they are smart enough to see the bigger picture and stay focused

 

[Shesterkybomb]

This point about Fox and also DeAngelo, not really his size in particular, but the pace he was playing at in this series is a good one.

They seemed a step behind all series, which can be expected in his first playoff under such weird circumstances. However, what I noticed was a lot of times theywould try and slow down the pace at the wrong times. He'd have a streaking Kreider or Kakko cutting through the NZ and instead of pushing the pace and making that pass they would double back and let everything reset and inevitably allow Carolina to clog the NZ and run their forecheck.

Not sure if it was a confidence issue or if it was one of those things after a long layoff it takes a player some games to get back in a groove and we just didn't have that time. I'm guessing the latter.

The biggest strengths of Fox and TDA is ability to push the pace and keep the tempo up and execute those good counter punch passes. We were missing that entirely this series and it showed. I don't think we should read too much into it, just an observation.

Fox was out of sorts the first game but he was good after that. DeAngelo was useless, and it wasn't even his speed, he was standing behind the net chucking hail mary passes up the middle of the ice.

 

[Rempe73]

We need more forward prospects for up and down the lineup.

Frankly I’d say we need at least one top 6 Center, one top 6 winger, and probably 4 bottom 6 guys. Not all for next year - just in the system to be part of the build towards final product.

Maybe one more good LHD prospect, just in case Miller doesn’t pan out, even though I do have high hopes for him. We’ll fill two of those needs with our 1st round draft picks this year, and getting decent bottom 6 forward prospects is not too difficult. So if we get a center and a LHD with our first 2 picks, we’ll just need one more top 6 winger prospect

 

[bl02]

Maybe one more good LHD prospect, just in case Miller doesn’t pan out, even though I do have high hopes for him. We’ll fill two of those needs with our 1st round draft picks this year, and getting decent bottom 6 forward prospects is not too difficult. So if we get a center and a LHD with our first 2 picks, we’ll just need one more top 6 winger prospect

Fair enough. Just depends how the Draft unfolds. If we don't get #1 then hopefully we pick around 10/11/12 which I feel would allow us to grab a highly touted forward. If with the Skjei pick a guy like Gunler or Reichel is there I would take my chances grabbing another forward.

 

[Anthony5967]

My God...where to start.

-Outcoached...big time. Brind'Amour is a hell of a coach, and his work ethic as a player has rubbed off on this entire team. If Carolina got another stud up front or an elite goalie, they'd be an even bigger force. They're already legit.
-There wasn't a player on Carolina that would be outworked that entire series for his coach or teammates to see.
-All the stars for NY laid a fat goose egg. It almost seemed like this club was in Summer mode and wanted no part of being there at all. A shell of what they were in March. Hell, maybe they just got outclassed and dominated.
-Smith and Staal cannot play in a series with speed like that and withstand the forechecking ability that Carolina brings
-I'd love to know why Shesterkin didn't play in games 1 and 2
-The PP failed them because their top guys failed them
-The lack of depth was apparent
-I like Quinn, he talks a good game, he's got that tough guy approach, but you know what, he showed his lack of NHL experience, too.

 

[Kovalev27]

There are two world class coaches avail right now and I think we should be making a move. Watching everyone else play a system it's obvious we are outclassed in that regard often. I think kids need structure as much as being nurtured. Quinn isn't bad but gallant and laviolette sitting there it's silly not to jump on one

 

[Rangers394]

There are two world class coaches avail right now and I think we should be making a move. Watching everyone else play a system it's obvious we are outclassed in that regard often. I think kids need structure as much as being nurtured. Quinn isn't bad but gallant and laviolette sitting there it's silly not to jump on one

I don't think this team is a Gallant or Laviolette away from winning. Quinn is going into his 3rd season, let's see what he does and if he learns anything from this series.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

There are two world class coaches avail right now and I think we should be making a move. Watching everyone else play a system it's obvious we are outclassed in that regard often. I think kids need structure as much as being nurtured. Quinn isn't bad but gallant and laviolette sitting there it's silly not to jump on one

It won’t happen and I get why but it’s sucks we’re almost certainly gonna miss out on a guy like Gallant. If we end up firing Quinn next year hopefully there’s someone good available.

 

[Anthony5967]

It won’t happen and I get why but it’s sucks we’re almost certainly gonna miss out on a guy like Gallant. If we end up firing Quinn next year hopefully there’s someone good available.

QUEnneville?

 

[Tob]

There are two world class coaches avail right now and I think we should be making a move. Watching everyone else play a system it's obvious we are outclassed in that regard often. I think kids need structure as much as being nurtured. Quinn isn't bad but gallant and laviolette sitting there it's silly not to jump on one

its like not we're hiring Bob Hartley, Iron Mike, and Mike Babcock. Gallant is a players' coach if i recall correctly. The whole nurturing and teaching coach thing is such a marketed concept to begin with. I'll give him the fact that he's good at working with players in their 18-22 age range and even beyond but at the end of the day, it just comes down to personal relationships and being a good person and a good coach. We've had 2 years of the teaching coach and we've tasted that emptiness in defeat. The look on Mika and Kreids' faces and the feelings that Henrik must have been feeling yesterday cannot be any worse. Time to learn through structure and winning.

 

[Cag29]

He was supremely talented at running a pp and very skilled but an average defender subject to being erased from games by physicality. The Flyers put him through the backwall for a series and management decided he was too soft, so he got moved for an ok 2c.

That was a huge mistake by Smith. Neil did a great job building the cup team but was pretty bad the second half of his tenure with trades and drafting. Zubov was a great talent. Paired with Leetch on our Power Play. Best I’ve ever seen since 1975.
Zubov went on to win another cup with Dallas.
I believe he’s in the HOF. he was a 5 th round pick.

 

[Cag29]

One of the biggest differences are draft picks, Carolina hits on theirs and they contribute all over the ice, Rangers don't.

We drafted some nice players over the years but have missed out on a lot too. Aho, Geekie, Necas, Foegele, Svechnikov, Pesce, Slavin, McGinn, all these guys were drafted by Carolina and are young and contributing now. We draft Lias, Gropp, Day, Duclair, Nieves, Halverson, etc. They either bust or go play on other teams and contribute. They fill out their bottom 6 with young, energetic guys who can play, we have McKegg and Digsiueppe in our bottom 6.

As an organization, the team needs to change their entire approach when it comes to the draft. Sure, all teams have their draft failures but just because they do it, doesn't mean we need to do it too. This is a dead horse but McIrath over Tarasenko arguably cost the team a cup and right now, the Lias pick looks awful, especially when Necas who many here wanted just had a great first season and we have a huge hole at 2c. Suzuki is another guy who would be perfect at 2c.

Things like this set teams back because now you are trading assets for players you missed out on in the draft and it's a never ending cycle. Say we trade Tony D for a 2c, now we are short an offensive dman. I know Fox is here too but the point is the Rangers need to have a vision and build teams for that vision and draft guys who fit, or else it will be the same old shit.

Or we need to buy all of Carolinas scouts. Let the work for us.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I don't think Quinn has done a bad job at all, I think he has covered up a lot of our teams glaring weaknesses ie our left d and all around forward depth, but if we can get Gallant I'd do it, it just sucks for Quinn because we havent see what he can do with a decent roster.