Scouting report on the draft

[PhoPhan]

In response to TinCanCommunications, who claims to have a background in journalism, I would say that by entering his name into the NHL Draft, by appearing at the combine, and by agreeing to do interviews, David Fischer made himself public figure, though maybe a limited one. Therefore, anything he does within the arena in which he has made himself public (re: hockey and related characteristics) can in turn be made public. At this point, all that has been said is indeed hearsay, but until it is proven to be false, shall remain unlibelous.

 

[OhioGuy]

Muahahaha! I hope Kessel falls to #6

 

[orcatown]

All kind of things get said everyday about people in professional sports. (and that seems to be what Fischer wants) Maybe Bonds should start sueing those people that bring those signs to the ball games. Bringing up potential libel is ridiculous. If you don't like whats being said go dig up your own facts to refute it. Don't try to scare people off with some idiotic threat of court action.

Thanks for the info turnbuckle and somepuck get a life. Opps! I guess that might be libel.

 

[PecaFan]

Not sure if this means anything, but Fischer is the only prospect I had an appointment to interview at the Combine who never showed.

See, now *that* is what I would call a red flag. Now you're talking issues of personal responsibility, not just meaningless stuff like confidence/cockiness.

Assuming he knew about the appointment, of course.

 

[somepuck]

All kind of things get said everyday about people in professional sports. (and that seems to be what Fischer wants) Maybe Bonds should start sueing those people that bring those signs to the ball games. Bringing up potential libel is ridiculous. If you don't like whats being said go dig up your own facts to refute it. Don't try to scare people off with some idiotic threat of court action.

Thanks for the info turnbuckle and somepuck get a life. Opps! I guess that might be libel.

Go back and read! I never said anything about libel or any court action. I don't even know him. Get your facts.

 

[turnbuckle*]

Anyone else find it "funny" that Somepuck never posted here before this article? Your last name wouldn't happen to be Fischer would it?

As for working in the press, what was your job, sticking your head in to test the pressure?

First you make a huge issue out of this, but then you laugh at "dealing with reality" on a message board. Just a tad hypocritical? If this isn't reality, why the hell is it bothering you so much?

You don't make any sense - you call it hearsay, yet you are taking it to heart. If it's hearsay, why exactly are you getting your panties in a bunch?

Essentially you are "claiming" that I fabricated the story in an attempt to sabotage his (or your) draft ranking. For shame!!! I'm going to talk to my lawyer today to see if I can sue Mr. Somepuck, address unknown, for libel.

 

[Fozz]

I think people should realize a few things. First, don't take anything said on message boards too seriously and, more importantly, don't take yourself too seriously. Second, pro scouts do not come on these things and read what a bunch of fans have to say about prospects or any other hockey-related issues. They simply don't have the time to waste on these things.

I must say however, that Turnbuckle's original post was quite entertaining.

 

[Kimi]

I have a couple of issues with this.

1) If this is a "professional" scout , why is he telling this to someone over drinks, not very professional.
2) Turnbuckle , does he know you are posting his thoughts on a public forum??albeit maybe nobody can figure out who he is...
3) Some posts says this happens in business all the time...if one of my employees came out of an interview then told someone else and I found it in public forum ..I'd fire him. Not a legal issue...its the ethics.
Unless the interviewee knew his answers would be discussed outside the company. Most interview processes are a fairly confidential setting.Answers discussed between decision makers not others, Maybe drafts and scouting are different.

Just a note, I'm sure that this IS NOT a public forum. The Admins can do what they want here; including banning people from this place, or even not letting them in without any need of reason. Then can make it private and closed off in a click of a button. They wouldn't be able to do that if it were public. You also don't have free speech here (very over rated anyways so it's no big loss) for the same reason.

 

[SPG]

Turnbuckle, thanks for the informative post!

...and libel...?? Give me a break... unbelieveable.

 

[The Big E]

This has been a fun read ... yea ... the entire thread. Thanks for the insights Turnbuckle and for everyone who contributed. For those of you who have gotten your undees in a bunch over this, it's simply a case of mind over matter ...

No GM or scout is going to mind and we don't matter.

This has all been a tempest in a teacup and a pretty fun read as Hf threads go. Fischer and his friends might mind, but the phat lady will sing on Saturday and it'll all be water under the bridge. Fischer is going to have to prove himself at Mariucci and then probably for a year or two in the AHL before he gets his chance ... that's a long time from now.

Since I'm joining the afray late, here's my 2 cents worth:

I saw Fischer play in the Section Final against Eagan. Its so hard to tell at the High School level if the coach isn't very good or the players not smart enough to listen -- Let's face it, jock isn't a stereotype for nothing. Fischer carried Apple Valley that evening. AV played like crap. Yea, they lost but he left everything on the ice that night. Judging from what I saw, he'll be an asset for the Gophers and The Don (Don Lucia, Gopher's Coach) has developed some pretty good D-Men over these last few years.

Later,

The Big E

 

[Ohio Jones]

Just a note, I'm sure that this IS NOT a public forum. The Admins can do what they want here; including banning people from this place, or even not letting them in without any need of reason. Then can make it private and closed off in a click of a button. They wouldn't be able to do that if it were public.

I agree so far - you're eright that this forum, will publically accessible, is only so by the forbearance of its owners, who can control what stays up, who can participate, and even whether the forum exists.

You also don't have free speech here (very over rated anyways so it's no big loss) for the same reason.

... and you were doing so well... :

Only someone living in a society that offers protection for free speech (as does virtually everyone on this forum) could ever imagine that it is overrated. Yes, free speech gives us a lot of ignorant people spouting off about whatever grabs them. I assure you that's far better than having a state, church or other heirarchical entity tell us what we can think, do and say.

Where's Jubal Harshaw when you need him?

 

[LWD]

I have been following turnbuckles posts for a few years now and what you need to know a bout him is that he really knows nothing. I am sure that any opinion that he forms is based solely on what someone has told him or a bone that (a scout) has throw his way. I wonder if turnbuckle would know which end of the stick to hold onto if he could skate on the ice? Phoney!

 

[Trottier]

Fischer was asked by this scout if he was prepared to be the fifth or sixth defenceman on his college team next season; he replied that the coaches would have to be brain dead given his talent. That was just one of his comments.

When a player says stuff like that during the interview process, it raises red flags, and believe me, word gets around the scouting community, whether you think of it as mature or not.

I don't claim to know a thing about the player or any of the people mentioned. Some of the responses here, however, provide a fascinating illustration of the difference between how fans look at athletes vs. how those paid to draft, develop and pay them do.

To some, apparently, it's "cool" that Fischer allegedly knocked his past coaches and bragged about where he should be on his college team next year. That's cockiness and brash confidence, and that's good, apparently.

On the other hand, looking at it from the perspective of a scout, coach or GM, one guesses that since all of these players are skilled, the personality trait you are looking for is quiet confidence. Words are cheap. Humbleness and an egoless mindset are the stuff of great players. ("Boring" according to some fans.) Funny, didn't see Rob Brind'amour bragging while accepting his Selke tonight. He gave credit to everyone but himself. To be sure, he is a mature, adult, a veteran NHLer, but you get the point. Can't imagine Yzerman or Sakic bragging at their pre-Draft interviews back inthe '80s (if they even had them).

Again, none of this means that the player is a bad person or will not be a solid NHLer; he's just a kid. But the difference in perceptions among some fans and those in the game is striking.

***

Personally, talent being equal, I want the individual who is smart enough and confident enough to keep his mouth shut about the abilities of those above him, i.e., his coach, regardless of how inept that coach may be. I have no desire to be wasting draft picks on future "lockeroom lawyers". Just my opinion.

 

[PuckFan01]

This is a comment Fischer made in today's Minneapolis newspaper about his decision to remain in high school hockey rather than play in junior hockey.

"My decision wasn't all about me," Fischer said. "I wanted to stick around for my senior year and be a captain and a leader of the team. Also, my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer at the beginning of the year and there was no way I was going to leave her."

Does that sound like cocky or arrogant to you? Seems pretty levelheaded and thoughtful in my book. An arrogant idiot? Hardly.

I said earlier in this thread that this kid has not had problems with his teammates or other people that know him. He has been raved about as being a good kid by those who actually know him. Don't believe the negative hype by one or two jerks.

 

[WrightOn]

Don't believe the negative hype by one or two jerks.

I don't have to believe the positive hype by one or two jerks either do I?

 

[Kimi]

I agree so far - you're eright that this forum, will publically accessible, is only so by the forbearance of its owners, who can control what stays up, who can participate, and even whether the forum exists.



... and you were doing so well... :

Only someone living in a society that offers protection for free speech (as does virtually everyone on this forum) could ever imagine that it is overrated. Yes, free speech gives us a lot of ignorant people spouting off about whatever grabs them. I assure you that's far better than having a state, church or other heirarchical entity tell us what we can think, do and say.

Where's Jubal Harshaw when you need him?

I's my opinion that free speach is over rated, I know that no one will agree with it.

Does this place go about well? Do you get good discussion about things? Yes. Do with have free speach here? No. I see alot of places that do have free speech doing well, thus think it's over rated and is not a must have.

I agree it's better than being told what to think and stuff, I'd be stupid not to. I'm OK with being told I can't say thing which are racist, incite violence or the like. I and by the laws in the UK I can't say those things. Thus I don't really have free speech to say what I want. The UK seems to be doing fine with outtrue free speech.

I'm for free speech, but I'm good with some censorship hanging about to make things work better.


Anyway, back to hockey.

PS, who's Jubal Harshaw?

 

[YouAreStupid]

Fischer was asked by this scout if he was prepared to be the fifth or sixth defenceman on his college team next season; he replied that the coaches would have to be brain dead given his talent. That was just one of his comments.

When a player says stuff like that during the interview process, it raises red flags, and believe me, word gets around the scouting community, whether you think of it as mature or not. I don't think they were all standing around laughing about him; I think some of you took the "running joke" comment too seriously. That's the problem with second hand info sometimes; it can get misinterpreted by the reader.

I don't doubt he's not a bad kid, just very cocky and perhaps misguided. If he's got the talent some team will take a chance on him in the first round I suspect, although I expect him to have dropped on many team's lists.

BTW - there were other things in that writeup; don't dwell on that. It's one scout's comments as was pointed out.

Poor interviews happen.

A scout told me that he really liked Terry Ryan going in to the 1996 draft, but when he got into the interview room the first thing he did was turn his back to the scouts as he pigged out on the food on the hospitality table. Turned all of them right off before the interview ever got started, and they really began to question his character, and with good reason as it turned out.

Sounds like this kid needs a reality check.

He will learn as he moves up the levels that he is not the standout he was in the lesser levels of hockey. If he doesn't learn that lesson before he makes it to the the bigs then he will have a big surprise coming to him.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

In response to TinCanCommunications, who claims to have a background in journalism, I would say that by entering his name into the NHL Draft, by appearing at the combine, and by agreeing to do interviews, David Fischer made himself public figure, though maybe a limited one. Therefore, anything he does within the arena in which he has made himself public (re: hockey and related characteristics) can in turn be made public. At this point, all that has been said is indeed hearsay, but until it is proven to be false, shall remain unlibelous.

If you say so.
I am the managing editor of a weekly newspaper. Legally, the most dangerous section of our newspaper is the letters to the editor section, where people routinely libel other people in town.
I have a hard time calling David Fischer a "public figure."
Anybody in the world can debate his on-ice attributes. It's there for the public to see,
But when the busiest hockey prospects internet board allows someone to come in and undermine someone with hearsay ... well ... I gotta say, dude ... that's potentially libelous. And at the very least, very unfair.

Seriously.
Turnbuckle uses an anonymous handle, claims to have had beers with an anonymous scout, and then proceeds to relay damaging information about a hockey prospect who's about to get drafted into a pro league.

That's pretty freakin' hazy,
Like I said, I spent time around the USNTDP program for a few years. And I've heard a fair share of stories.
But I figured it would be completely unfair to spread hearsay using the board.
Fact is, I never thought HFboards would allow it ...
But hey, these aren't my boards.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

Anyone else find it "funny" that Somepuck never posted here before this article? Your last name wouldn't happen to be Fischer would it?

As for working in the press, what was your job, sticking your head in to test the pressure?

First you make a huge issue out of this, but then you laugh at "dealing with reality" on a message board. Just a tad hypocritical? If this isn't reality, why the hell is it bothering you so much?

You don't make any sense - you call it hearsay, yet you are taking it to heart. If it's hearsay, why exactly are you getting your panties in a bunch?

Essentially you are "claiming" that I fabricated the story in an attempt to sabotage his (or your) draft ranking. For shame!!! I'm going to talk to my lawyer today to see if I can sue Mr. Somepuck, address unknown, for libel.

Hey dude.
I am not claiming anything,
You are.

 

[PhoPhan]

In what way is David Fischer not a limited public figure?

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

I think people should realize a few things. First, don't take anything said on message boards too seriously and, more importantly, don't take yourself too seriously. Second, pro scouts do not come on these things and read what a bunch of fans have to say about prospects or any other hockey-related issues. They simply don't have the time to waste on these things.

I must say however, that Turnbuckle's original post was quite entertaining.

Pro scouts do indeed visit these boards.
You think proscouts don't have time to visit message boards on the internet?

 

[PhoPhan]

I think the point wasn't so much that scouts don't come here (because it's conceivable and probable that they do), but that if scouts are putting more stock into their decision based on forum discourse than they are from their own scouting, they aren't very good scouts.

Secondly, it's been upheld in numerous court decisions (most notably and recently, the one involving Tucker Max and Anthony DiMeo) that it is very, very difficult to prove libel from an internet message board. Further, turnbuckle stated the information as second-hand, which makes it harder to pin anything on him.

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

I think the point wasn't so much that scouts don't come here (because it's conceivable and probable that they do), but that if scouts are putting more stock into their decision based on forum discourse than they are from their own scouting, they aren't very good scouts.

Secondly, it's been upheld in numerous court decisions (most notably and recently, the one involving Tucker Max and Anthony DiMeo) that it is very, very difficult to prove libel from an internet message board.

It is difficult. But not impossible.

Let me ask you, Phophan. Why do we ban Eklund posts?
Why do we ban the "My friend's brother works in Toronto's front office and he says the Leafs want to trade A for B.
Those may not be libelous. But I'm sure the leaders of the board make these claims for the purposes of credibility.
This thread really, really, really is one of the most unfair threads I've seen on the boards.
And really, I don't want to talk about it anymore than I have.
Hfboards is a great site (despite server issues) and the mods usually do a very good job keeping people in line (even if they've banned me a few times!)
If you'd like to debate by PM, that's fine.

Further, turnbuckle stated the information as second-hand, which makes it harder to pin anything on him.

You think that helps?
IMO, that only makes it worse.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

Kinda mean for grown, professional, men to be picking on a nervous 17 year old kid, on the most important day of his life. Not to sound like a poo-c or anything, but hopefully this kid never finds out he was a "running joke" at the combine.

Have to agree with you. And when do scouts from different organizations swap notes?

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

Have to agree with you. And when do scouts from different organizations swap notes?

All the time. Scouts may work for different organizations, but they operate in a pack mentality.
The best scouts, IMO, are the ones who build their own networks and operate lone wolfise otherwise.