Schroeder and Dalpe not qualified

[Nucker101]

Both seems very likely to be tweeners. AHL all-stars, but not good enough to be top 9 NHL'ers. Schroeder did look decent when playing with Hansen and Raymond for a stretch during the shortened season. With bigger players he really didn't seem to have much chemistry.

 

[Canucks5551]

I don't like it. Poor asset management to not qualify Schroeder due to his age and past pedigree. Worst case scenario is that he doesn't make the team and passes through waivers. We know he's good at the AHL level already and he could help the Comets out if he fails in camp.

 

[Shareefruck]

Tell me about it.



I'd call it a lucky home run due to the law of averages after striking out countless times.

Chances are whoever suggested Santorelli said something like, "Good team guy, hard worker. Sign him for minimum and maybe he'll be a fit on the 4th line when we run into injuries."

I highly doubt any of them guessed Santorelli would be even half as good as he was.

How can you call Santorelli a home run and then scoff at "absolute gem"? Even if we picked him up through sheer blind luck, it would be categorized as an absolute gem of a signing.

 

[YouppiKiYay]

I always thought of Schroeder as a perfect metaphor for Gillis' tenure. Schroeder was the perfect pick for the NHL Gillis thought would emerge from the post-last-lockout rule changes. As the rules reverted, neither Schroeder nor Gillis were able to adapt.

I think he'd be best served by heading to Europe, playing top six minutes and waiting for some NHL European scout to notice.

 

[Trelane]

I don't like it. Poor asset management to not qualify Schroeder due to his age and past pedigree. Worst case scenario is that he doesn't make the team and passes through waivers. We know he's good at the AHL level already and he could help the Comets out if he fails in camp.

What pedigree beyond his draft year do you speak of? It's been five years! During which Vey actually had the kind of production JS should have had for it to be considered "good." At the AHL he would only eat PP and good minutes that should go to Fox, Shinkaruk, and others who still have a chance of playing for us someday.

Time to move on.

 

[Willting*]

"Absolute gem" in Santo? Lol man this place...

I know right.

 

[Willting*]

Got lucky

You take enough good risks and you'll find yourself some good players.

Are teams just lucky when they find NHL players in the draft late? Or is there some skill when it comes to it, because it's usually the same teams that can consistently find good players, whether that be in FA, through trade, or through the draft.

Is there some skill to finding good players? Absolutely, the Red Wings are amazing at it. But the Canucks are not, hence the need for an overhaul of the scouting department...

 

[Canucks5551]

What pedigree beyond his draft year do you speak of? It's been five years! During which Vey actually had the kind of production JS should have had for it to be considered "good." At the AHL he would only eat PP and good minutes that should go to Fox, Shinkaruk, and others who still have a chance of playing for us someday.

Time to move on.

Well, there are his World Junior performances and he's shown flashes of being a quality player at the pro level, albeit inconsistently. I don't really see the downside in giving him another chance. With Pelletier leaving, Utica has lost their #1 centre and I sure don't want to throw a player with absolutely no pro experience to the wolves by putting Fox in that role. Shinkaruk is a winger, so he wouldn't be competing with Schroeder for ice time.

 

[RobertKron]

Pauser is going to be crushed.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I don't like it. Poor asset management to not qualify Schroeder due to his age and past pedigree. Worst case scenario is that he doesn't make the team and passes through waivers. We know he's good at the AHL level already and he could help the Comets out if he fails in camp.

It is poor asset management. At the very worst, you can waive both and have them as AHL veterans to help Utica. Teams have these types shuttle back and forth.

 

[vanuck]

Well, there are his World Junior performances and he's shown flashes of being a quality player at the pro level, albeit inconsistently. I don't really see the downside in giving him another chance. With Pelletier leaving, Utica has lost their #1 centre and I sure don't want to throw a player with absolutely no pro experience to the wolves by putting Fox in that role. Shinkaruk is a winger, so he wouldn't be competing with Schroeder for ice time.

Agreed, poor asset management. The only other centre who's slated to play in Utica's top 6 is Gaunce (not clear if O'Reilly re-signs), so I don't see why not either. At worst you lose them on waivers, which is pretty much the same as not qualifying them right now.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

I'll be sad to see Schneider go, but the truth is, he doesn't have an NHL skillset. At least not the NHL as it stands right now.

In a year or so I see him tearing up the KHL... and Dalpe tearing up the Swiss or German league.

Eventually we'll all be going "oh, that's what happened to him" when we watch the Spengler Cup.

 

[kanucks25]

How can you call Santorelli a home run and then scoff at "absolute gem"? Even if we picked him up through sheer blind luck, it would be categorized as an absolute gem of a signing.

The signing was a gem, the player is not.

He was definitely great for us, but people are crying about this as if we lost an integral piece. If he kept playing the way he did for us, could he be a good 3rd liner on a contender? Sure. But we already have a surplus of decent bottom-6 guys, it's not that big of a blow to lose him.

I would love him back, but unfortunately he won't sign another 1-year deal to prove himself over an entire season.

 

[Grub]

Despite Mike Gillis' horrendous draft record.

The Jordan Schroeder pick was the right pick at the time it was made. I think all of us here in hfboards was yelling Gillis to pick Schroeder up. Unfortunately he did not pan out.

 

[David71]

what a bust. hope schroder goes to europe and somebody will take a chance on the kid.

 

[Bleach Clean]

The signing was a gem, the player is not.

He was definitely great for us, but people are crying about this as if we lost an integral piece. If he kept playing the way he did for us, could he be a good 3rd liner on a contender? Sure. But we already have a surplus of decent bottom-6 guys, it's not that big of a blow to lose him.

I would love him back, but unfortunately he won't sign another 1-year deal to prove himself over an entire season.

The guy scored at a 1st line pace at ES... Pretty atypical of a "decent bottom-6 guy".

This management team needs to wake up and bring this guy back on a mutli-year. Lower the AAV if they must. Big mistake letting him walk. It will matter little if he gets derailed elsewhere too, as he did work here, and they know what they would be bringing back.

Signing Santorelli should have been automatic.

 

[MS]

It is poor asset management. At the very worst, you can waive both and have them as AHL veterans to help Utica. Teams have these types shuttle back and forth.

On one hand, yeah, I'd have liked to have given Dalpe another year to see if we could get some value out of him.

But on the other hand, I have no problem with a new GM cutting fringe crap like Schroeder/Dalpe/Alberts/Welsh/etc. to open up some spots to give him some space to make the changes he wants to the organization. Need a clean slate.

The signing was a gem, the player is not.

He was definitely great for us, but people are crying about this as if we lost an integral piece. If he kept playing the way he did for us, could he be a good 3rd liner on a contender? Sure. But we already have a surplus of decent bottom-6 guys, it's not that big of a blow to lose him.

If he kept playing the way he did through the first half of last season, Santorelli is an All-Star or close to it. And that's not a joke.

The guy was carrying a 2nd line offensively as one of the top 15 ES scorers in the NHL, while at the same time having a massive motor and playing a terrific three-zone game.

People don't seem to grasp how ridiculously good he was last year.

 

[damack]

People don't seem to grasp how ridiculously good he was last year.

He played 49 games. How did he do in the last 9? Prior to those 49 games it was questionable if he'd play in the NHL.

I agree was was ridiculously good when he was good, it's just too small a sample size to justify a big contract. If he was young and that was a breakout year it would be worth looking at. But at 28 after a couple of ho-hum seasons I'd need to know it wasn't just a blip.

 

[MS]

He played 49 games. How did he do in the last 9? Prior to those 49 games it was questionable if he'd play in the NHL.

I agree was was ridiculously good when he was good, it's just too small a sample size to justify a big contract. If he was young and that was a breakout year it would be worth looking at. But at 28 after a couple of ho-hum seasons I'd need to know it wasn't just a blip.

I doubt he gets a 'big contract'. Guessing 2 years/$3 million would have been pretty close. We only offered a one-year deal, which was never going to get it done.

 

[kanucks25]

The guy scored at a 1st line pace at ES... Pretty atypical of a "decent bottom-6 guy".

This management team needs to wake up and bring this guy back on a mutli-year. Lower the AAV if they must. Big mistake letting him walk. It will matter little if he gets derailed elsewhere too, as he did work here, and they know what they would be bringing back.

Signing Santorelli should have been automatic.

He also scored 0 points in about 70 power-play minutes, averaging second-unit time per game. Great ES pace but overall he was still below a 50 point pace.

If he kept playing the way he did through the first half of last season, Santorelli is an All-Star or close to it. And that's not a joke.

The guy was carrying a 2nd line offensively as one of the top 15 ES scorers in the NHL, while at the same time having a massive motor and playing a terrific three-zone game.

People don't seem to grasp how ridiculously good he was last year.

He was like 140th in PPG, that doesn't get you into the all-star game. They don't look at even-strength points, mostly just total points.




I don't mean to crap on Santo 'cause I agree he was absolutely great for us, and I do want him back, as well. I just don't think it's a huge deal if he walks. Also, I find it odd how he thinks a 2-year deal elsewhere is better than a 1-year here. You'd think Vancouver would be the best fit for him seeing as his career was resurrected here.

 

[Bleach Clean]

He also scored 0 points in about 70 power-play minutes, averaging second-unit time per game. Great ES pace but overall he was still below a 50 point pace.

It's still well above pace for the average 3rd/4th liner. Those guys get little PP production and fall well short of 50 points at ES. What he did was miraculous for 550k.

I also believe that had the PP not been in complete disarray, that he would have eventually turned around his production there. At the same time, a certain level of normalization would have happened with his ES production. End result being a 50 point, 15 PPP, all situations middle6 player. Like a Rich Peverley.

I don't mean to crap on Santo 'cause I agree he was absolutely great for us, and I do want him back, as well. I just don't think it's a huge deal if he walks. Also, I find it odd how he thinks a 2-year deal elsewhere is better than a 1-year here. You'd think Vancouver would be the best fit for him seeing as his career was resurrected here.

It's a huge deal if he walks. Massive. They lose essentially their best ES per minute producer for pennies. No other FA is going to match that value.

They should still sign him. Give him term. Bonino or Vey, in all likelihood, are not going to be able to match what he did here.

 

[petrishriekandgo]

I always thought of Schroeder as a perfect metaphor for Gillis' tenure. Schroeder was the perfect pick for the NHL Gillis thought would emerge from the post-last-lockout rule changes. As the rules reverted, neither Schroeder nor Gillis were able to adapt.

I think he'd be best served by heading to Europe, playing top six minutes and waiting for some NHL European scout to notice.

Agreed... Great post!

 

[vanuck]

I don't get this "top 6 or bust" thing with Schroeder and I never have. We've all heard the complaint about the bottom 6 being a perennial weakness of this team. If you want good 3rd and 4th lines you need to get players who can push play in the right direction against equivalent competition. Here he's done so with a similar quality of teammates this season.

Part of building a good team is being able to find (whether via draft or UFA) Corsi-positive players to play throughout your lineup. Preferably through the draft 'cos you get them on value contracts while they're establishing themselves. To me it doesn't make sense to dump players if they've shown they can outplay their counterparts on the other team at the very least.

 

[Jack Tripper]

I don't get this "top 6 or bust" thing with Schroeder and I never have. We've all heard the complaint about the bottom 6 being a perennial weakness of this team. If you want good 3rd and 4th lines you need to get players who can push play in the right direction against equivalent competition. Here he's done so with a similar quality of teammates this season.

Part of building a good team is being able to find (whether via draft or UFA) Corsi-positive players to play throughout your lineup. Preferably through the draft 'cos you get them on value contracts while they're establishing themselves. To me it doesn't make sense to dump players if they've shown they can outplay their counterparts on the other team at the very least.

i agree partly as alot of nhl 4th lines are populated with 1st round busts that were projected to be top line players but for whatever reason didn't fully develop any offensive game (ie the steve bernier's or brian boyle's of the world)

however most nhl gm's have an archetypal 4th line in mind (ie meat and potatoes) and schroeder doesn't fit that mold at all...therefore the 1st round busts that find a niche as a 4th line grinder are generally bigger players like bernier and boyle

 

[Verviticus]

It's still well above pace for the average 3rd/4th liner. Those guys get little PP production and fall well short of 50 points at ES. What he did was miraculous for 550k.

I also believe that had the PP not been in complete disarray, that he would have eventually turned around his production there. At the same time, a certain level of normalization would have happened with his ES production. End result being a 50 point, 15 PPP, all situations middle6 player. Like a Rich Peverley.





It's a huge deal if he walks. Massive. They lose essentially their best ES per minute producer for pennies. No other FA is going to match that value.

They should still sign him. Give him term. Bonino or Vey, in all likelihood, are not going to be able to match what he did here.

because of the week hes had to talk to other suitors, i think the chances of us re-signing him are pretty much 0 which is crazy depressing