SCF Game 2 - 6/01/16 - Sharks at Penguins - Part II

[Dubi Doo]

No you goof. I meant I felt bad for them(in an odd way) because Thorton and co obviously came into the series thinking "gee wiz, if we can just get under Cindy's skin it will be easy. He is so soft. Just look at what Chara, Staal, and Giroux did to them in the playoffs. Just have to get them rattled," so they come out with the faux tough guy routine and the Pens don't even respond and ironically the Sharks whine more in response. Their ego has to be in the toilet right now. And I feel bad for them because I like the Sharks and if any of the aformentioned teams deserved a Cup it is the Sharks. It is just sad and a bit funny that they feel like perennial losers and can't even rough up Crosby the right way.

Your post totally comes off as someone who's empathetic towards the Sharks.

Just be honest- you're enjoying every moment of this. There's nothing wrong with feeling hatred towards a team your favorite team is playing in the SCF. The way you're going about it is petty, though.


The Pens have been amazing this post season. Has there ever been a coaching change that's caused such an incredible turn around in one season?

 

[Section337]

Have any neutral fans in here seen enough out of the Sharks these first two games to believe that they can realistically win 4 out of the next 5 games???

In general, I am unwilling to write off a team until they lose at home.

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

The Pens have been amazing this post season. Has there ever been a coaching change that's caused such an incredible turn around in one season?

Therrien to Bylsma in '09?

 

[Cherpak]

Rutherford deserves kudos for the trades he made and hiring Sullivan. However, so does Shero. Seems like he and his staff did a pretty good job drafting secondary players, while remaining one of the top teams in the league. Picking late most of the time gives me confidence that he's now drafting for the Devils . If anyone did a horrible job drafting the last decade its Lamoriello and Conte. I know most Pitt fans won't admit it, since they basically accuse Shero of being terrible at drafting.

It wasn't Shero being bad at drafting per say. It was his reluctance and sometimes downright refusal to draft the needed forwards the team required. DP taken 8th overall when Forsberg was available being one of the most obvious. Even though DP still may be a good player, as we know defense take longer to develop. Forsberg was more of an immediate need for a contender. He had this pattern of drafting defense that would either play for the Pens or bring value in trades. For the most part that hasn't been the case. I have little doubt Shero will do good things with the Devils. Just hope he learned from his mistakes with the Pens.

OT: I see in your avatar your with the 82nd. Looks like 319th FA from what I can tell from the flash. I was Division LRRS and 3/4 325 when I served there. AATW!

 

[Remington 700]

In general, I am unwilling to write off a team until they lose at home.

That only works if the team has home ice.

 

[Cherpak]

Therrien to Bylsma in '09?

I just hope Sullivan sticks with whats working and doesn't pull a Bylsma such as trying to implement a system that he feels is best but clearly doesn't work and is so stubborn that he refuses to accept its failure.

For the record I don't think thats the case with Sullivan. I believe this is the system he adheres to.

 

[Lebowski]

Your post totally comes off as someone who's empathetic towards the Sharks.

Just be honest- you're enjoying every moment of this. There's nothing wrong with feeling hatred towards a team your favorite team is playing in the SCF. The way you're going about it is petty, though.


The Pens have been amazing this post season. Has there ever been a coaching change that's caused such an incredible turn around in one season?

Bylsma, circa 2009.

 

[Lebowski]

I just hope Sullivan sticks with whats working and doesn't pull a Bylsma such as trying to implement a system that he feels is best but clearly doesn't work and is so stubborn that he refuses to accept its failure.

For the record I don't think thats the case with Sullivan. I believe this is the system he adheres to.

I believe in coaching, but only up to a certain degree. No matter the coach, you have to move on sooner or later. Some have a longer shelf life than others, but ultimately they all struggle to get their message across at some point down the line. It's just the nature of the business.

Sullivan is doing a great job now. Even if he keeps coaching the same way going forward, it's very likely that in 3 years, the team would probably benefit from having a new voice behind the bench.

 

[SEALBound]

I just hope Sullivan sticks with whats working and doesn't pull a Bylsma such as trying to implement a system that he feels is best but clearly doesn't work and is so stubborn that he refuses to accept its failure.

For the record I don't think thats the case with Sullivan. I believe this is the system he adheres to.

Bylsma came in mid February. He didn't have enough time per say to implement his system in 09. He basically took MT's defensive structure and told the forwards to actually forecheck. That was really about it.

The next season he implemented his system.

Sullivan came mid December and had plenty of time to implement a new system/style. What you are seeing with Sullivan now is what you will be seeing with Sullivan next year.

 

[Cherpak]

I believe in coaching, but only up to a certain degree. No matter the coach, you have to move on sooner or later. Some have a longer shelf life than others, but ultimately they all struggle to get their message across at some point down the line. It's just the nature of the business.

Sullivan is doing a great job now. Even if he keeps coaching the same way going forward, it's very likely that in 3 years, the team would probably benefit from having a new voice behind the bench.

My point is that you implement the system that the team is built for. During the run for the cup in 09 the Pens were more of an attack team like they are now. They basically steamrolled teams after Bylsma arrived. Then the next season for some reason only Bylsma knows they changed it to a more defensive one that the Pens were not built and designed for. We have seen the results ever since.

Sullivan may not be here after his contract is up or he may not even finish his contract. HC in the NHL is a fickle thing for sure. All I am saying is stick to what works and don't try to fix something that isn't broken.

 

[BHD]

Rutherford deserves kudos for the trades he made and hiring Sullivan. However, so does Shero. Seems like he and his staff did a pretty good job drafting secondary players, while remaining one of the top teams in the league. Picking late most of the time gives me confidence that he's now drafting for the Devils . If anyone did a horrible job drafting the last decade its Lamoriello and Conte. I know most Pitt fans won't admit it, since they basically accuse Shero of being terrible at drafting.

Terrible (or reluctant) to draft skilled forwards in the first round. Jordan Staal (debatable), Angelo Esposito (bust), and Beau Bennett (a classic case of what could have been) in 8 years.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

I just hope Sullivan sticks with whats working and doesn't pull a Bylsma such as trying to implement a system that he feels is best but clearly doesn't work and is so stubborn that he refuses to accept its failure.

For the record I don't think thats the case with Sullivan. I believe this is the system he adheres to.

The thing that gives me hope long-term is that Bylsma won using Therrien's system and only instituted his system after the fact...Sullivan rolled out his system from the start this time around, which is what led to that unsightly 0-4 start of his tenure as the team was still out of sorts and learning a new system.

 

[Cherpak]

The thing that gives me hope long-term is that Bylsma won using Therrien's system and only instituted his system after the fact...Sullivan rolled out his system from the start this time around, which is what led to that unsightly 0-4 start of his as the team was still out of sorts and learning a new system.

Great point. But can you blame me for being just a little skeptical?

 

[SidDidNothingWrong]

Your post totally comes off as someone who's empathetic towards the Sharks.

Just be honest- you're enjoying every moment of this. There's nothing wrong with feeling hatred towards a team your favorite team is playing in the SCF. The way you're going about it is petty, though.


The Pens have been amazing this post season. Has there ever been a coaching change that's caused such an incredible turn around in one season?

Well, I mean you can try to tell me my complex emotional processes if you'd like but that isn't the way I feel at all.
Living on the East Coast, San Jose was always irrelevant to me. A likable group, in fact I would say Pavelski, Burns, Hertl, and Thorton were some of my favorite players. I never had a problem with them nor did I really pay a whole lot of my team focused on them. I always felt bad because they totally deserved at least a finals appearance and in a sport with so much fighting and hitting I never really felt vitriol for them and felt they were always made fun of for being losers. So, in my opinion and according to me, I feel BAD that if anybody has to start self-destructing in the finals it has to be San Jose. Like, it is such a San Jose Sharks thing to do to try roughing up Crosby, a formula that has worked for 6 years for every other team, and then when San Jose tries it they get unlucky and Crosby finally figured it out with his new coach. It is like the nerdy kid in high school who is told by the other 5 jocks to treat this girl like **** because she totally likes bad boys and then the second he tries it he gets rejected. I may be snarky and sarcastic and I get what you think I feel, but I honestly feel bad that SJ Fans, if they lose in 4 or 5 games a big IF and continue this Thorton nonsense after the whistles and whatnot, that the one time they get to the finals they self-destruct. Of course I am enjoying my own team doing well.

 

[PensandCaps]

Terrible (or reluctant) to draft skilled forwards in the first round. Jordan Staal (debatable), Angelo Esposito (bust), and Beau Bennett (a classic case of what could have been) in 8 years.

Rust,kuhn,maatta and murray. Who are helping contribute in the SCF, all shero picks. He was nowhere near as bad as people made him out to be.

 

[stepdad gaary]

I've seen enough that they're making me actually root for the Penguins.

And **** that. I don't want to do that.

you're welcome on board. It is any exciting team. The lightning have an exciting team as well. Both teams play good hockey. The sharks play good hockey as well. They just arent doing it as much right now.

 

[BHD]

Rust,kuhn,maatta and murray. Who are helping contribute in the SCF, all shero picks. He was nowhere near as bad as people made him out to be.

I said put an emphasis on "skilled forwards in the first round." Although, Brian Gibbons definitely filled that role when he played next to Sid.

 

[stepdad gaary]

That only works if the team has home ice.

well it still gets you to a game 7 and at that point everyone know anything can happen

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I keep getting back to the thing Cole hates the most, stats and use of analytics, but GMJR's fingerprints are all over this. If he does not win GM of the year it will be a crime.

From an article last year, GMJR said that prior to his hiring the Pens were skeptics. Since his hiring not a single trade, free agent signing or player evalution did not involve the use of analytics. I am sure that the style of play that they adopted and seeking out misfit toys from other teams who would be available to fit that system were part of that, and as two thirds of this team was not here last year, the changes made using these tools are pretty much the reason for what you see on the ice:

General manager Jim Rutherford said analytics were used heavily in the analysis of the Patric Hornqvist trade at the 2014 draft and will be a part of every move the organization makes moving forward.

"Prior to me getting here, they were using analytics, but everybody didn't buy in," Rutherford told ESPN.com. "I brought Jason Karmanos with me, and used the same analytics company that we used for a long time [in Carolina]. I also suggested that everybody needs to buy into it, and they have. We're believers in it."

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12331388/the-great-analytics-rankings

That article shows what teams bought into the concept last year and is an interesting read. The use in the day to day operations has only increased since that article was published, to the point that a 26 year old whiz kid was hired as GM this year whose claim to fame was skills in that areaL

http://thehockeywriters.com/information-or-instinct-the-new-world-of-hockey-analytics/

Toronto just tripled its budget on this area.

The fun stuff is what goes on on the ice, and it will always be about the players, and great coaching like Sullivan has been doing all year.

But a lot of credit needs to go to what the Pens have done behind the scenes.

 

[tom_servo]

Maybe the Sharks can pull an '09 Penguins. Right now, aside from the lead, I'm just glad the Western Superiority narrative is taking a punch in the mouth.

 

[Riptide]

And just think - PIT is doing this without Daley. Could you imagine how screwed SJ would be if Martin or Vlasic were not playing?

 

[WhatsaMaatta]

So everyone raves about what a great disparity there is between the Western Conference and Eastern Conference, then pulls out the travel excuse when the East goes up 2-0. Eastern Conference fans just can't win.

 

[The Macho King]

And just think - PIT is doing this without Daley. Could you imagine how screwed SJ would be if Martin or Vlasic were not playing?

Daley is not equivalent to Vlasic. Maybe Martin.

But Pens D still isn't great - their forwards are doing a fantastic job of covering up D deficiencies.

 

[Novak Djokovic]

Daley is not equivalent to Vlasic. Maybe Martin.

But Pens D still isn't great - their forwards are doing a fantastic job of covering up D deficiencies.

True, he's not as good as Vlasic, but still, Pens are without their second best defenseman in this series. It's amazing what they've done so far. The toughest test will be in Sharks tank though.

 

[Riptide]

Are the Pens getting the short end on the PP s again,,,, Poor little fellas !!

Sharks getting split open by sticks to the face uncalled and this is what we take away from the game ???

Wasn't aware it's "high sticking" when your face is around knee level and the pucks there. But whatever. Might have more sympathy for it if they were calling everything nice and tight... seeing how they're letting damn near everything go, those were good non calls.