Friedman: Saros linked to devils and canes

[Jerzey Devil]

I don't know if they will get him signed, but apparently that was a thing on DFO the other day and Gregor said that they want to re-sign him. I think if they want to re-sign him, not trading him would go along way to helping that. I figure Toffoli may be suffering a bit from that Haula moving exhaustion to be honest. Not quite as bad, but what's he on now, like 5 teams in 6 or 7 years?

I hate Ruff’s line combinations right now. Bratt and Hughes should not be playing apart. I don’t care if they are the only line scoring. And Toffoli should be on the right side of that line. I’d go with these combinations and let them develop.

Bratt- Hughes-Toffoli
Meier-Hischier-Holtz

Also might be in the minority of Devils fans but I can’t wait for Hamilton to come back. He needs to be back on PP1 whether we go with 2 defenders with Luke or Luke goes to PP2.

An off-year is no big deal in the grand scheme of things. Tampa missed the playoffs in 2017, 2 years after a Stanley Cup Finals birth and right before that high 2018-2022 peak. Similar story with Washington 2014, Dallas 2021 and Vegas 2022.

New Jersey will be a contender for a while. Think of it as a development year for the young players on defense.

Off years are fine as long as they don’t give up and develop that loser mentality they’re being accused of in the NHL forum.

 

[Armourboy]

They may be young but their window is open now. The rest of the teams in the bubble in the East are struggling too so, while I understand why Devils fans are down right now, I think they can still go on a hot streak and make the playoffs.

They could but getting Saros for example is going to cost something you may not want to actually move. Trotz isn't going to abandon his own shot at the playoffs for a 1st and some ok prospect and that seems to be where the disconnect comes in. Your GM is unwilling to pay the price to get those assets.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

They could but getting Saros for example is going to cost something you may not want to actually move. Trotz isn't going to abandon his own shot at the playoffs for a 1st and some ok prospect and that seems to be where the disconnect comes in. Your GM is unwilling to pay the price to get those assets.

I think it’s becoming more and more apparent that he’s going to have to be willing to part with more than he anticipated but in all honesty I don’t think it’s going to take what’s being asked on here.

It’s not going to be Jack, Luke, Nemec, Hischier, Bratt, or Meier (for obvious reasons). I don’t think it will take Mercer but even if it did, assuming the goalie pans out, the upgrade in goal would eventually offset the loss. I mean it would obviously hurt to lose Mercer but the upgrade in goal is important.

For the record I do see the value in waiting for the offseason to see what goalie may be available. I just want Fitz to do something to let us know he has t given up on the team like everyone seems to have.

 

[Reinhart]

Just some alternative thoughts here to some recent posts from someone who just may be clueless like I am:

• Flames will take a lesser deal in the summer because Edwards is too cheap to retain.

This has been debunked already. Conroy has the ability to retain as he sees fit. Calgary shopped around and the cheapest that they could find in terms of retention for Monahan's 6.375 million cap hit was a first to Montreal. This is 3 years of retention. Markstrom makes 6 million a season, for another 2.5 seasons. We don't know what was offered by NJ, so we can't exactly comment on if things were fair or not. Did Fitzgerald want Calgary to retain half for.. nothing? A 2nd round pick? We don't know. We do know that the price Calgary paid for 6.375 last season was a first, and that's probably the ballpark that they are looking at in their formula.

• Trading for Markstrom now is stupid since Ruff is a terrible coach anyway.

Maybe. Ruff may not be the greatest coach around, but he is not the worst either. Show me a great coach, and I will show you a great goalie. That's a common euphemism in the NHL. At any rate, lots of bad coaches have won the Jack Adams, and I bet some of them even won the Cup too. Regardless, it is a hole on the team that needs to be filled. The Devils were touted as being contenders this year, after having a fantastic season last year. There is at least one glaring hole that needs to be resolved. Maybe there won't be a better goalie available in the off-season, or whenever Ruff gets replaced. From that logic, it is probably better to just throw in the towel and turn into sellers?

• Too many injuries anyway. Just punt the season and try again next season.

Siegenthaler just returned, and I am sure that helps. Hamilton is probably back for the playoffs it seems. Next season may be worse. Who knows if the Devils will be more healthy next season or less healthy. It seems better right now, and it is expected that everyone will be back by playoffs (Hamilton being the big question mark I guess - sounds like he is, but may not be??).

I like Kevin Woodley's takes on goalies. Here is a Feb 16 spot on a Calgary Flames' radio broadcast. He makes some really interesting points, especially when he talks about the fit in New Jersey, and his rationale as to why the Devils should pick Markstrom over Saros. Starts at the 3:30 mark. One thing that is helpful is how he states how Markstrom has never been that guy to be unwilling to work with younger goalies in the system to help them become better. Some goalies are like that and feel it is a competition, but Markstrom apparently has always been a really strong team guy. Woodely seems to like both Daws and Schmid.

Kevin Woodley on Markstrom Rumours and Wolf! | Flames Talk Podcast

Here is another hit on Calgary's airwaves, as well as talking about other goalie related things. Again, starts at the 3:30 mark.

Flames Talk

He seems like what the Devils need. Sure, there may be other holes, there may be other things to consider, but it sure seems like Markstrom is a good fit for the Devils. Either way, it iwill be interesting to see what ends up shaking out of all of this. Either way, I hope that the Devils make it to the playoffs since they are an entertainig team to watch.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I'm always baffled when people defend their arguments with the narrative that the Blues won with a rookie goalie, Vegas won with no-name Hill, Pittsburgh won with Murray.. blah blah.

Blues defense the year they won:

Pietrangelo
Bouweester
Parayko
Dunn
Edmundson
Gunnarsson

That is one hell of a defense. Perfectly built for the playoffs.

Vegas defense the year they won:

Pietrangelo
Theodore
Martinez
McNabb
Whitecloud
Hague

Again, probably the best top-6 defense for playoff hockey in the league.

Pittsburgh had two generational talents in Crosby and Malkin.

I'm sorry, but a team like NJD is nowhere near good enough to win with these types of goalies. Their defense is not nearly good enough. They actually DO need a decent goalie back there.

Good point. I know your post was aimed at NJ, it's another reason why I'm not a fan of Carolina trading for a goalie.

Slavin
Burns
Pesce
Skjei
Orlov
Chatfield
DeAngelo

Canes have a great defense right now. Orlov, who Boston paid a 1st for at the deadline last year, is typically on our 3rd pairing. DeAngelo, who is an NHL caliber defenseman, is our #7.

We need goal scoring more than anything IMO. I hope that's where Carolina focuses at the deadline, but I suspect they will only make minor moves again as that's their MO.

 

[Scoresberg]

Good point. I know your post was aimed at NJ, it's another reason why I'm not a fan of Carolina trading for a goalie.

Slavin
Burns
Pesce
Skjei
Orlov
Chatfield
DeAngelo

Canes have a great defense right now. Orlov, who Boston paid a 1st for at the deadline last year, is typically on our 3rd pairing. DeAngelo, who is an NHL caliber defenseman, is our #7.

We need goal scoring more than anything IMO. I hope that's where Carolina focuses at the deadline, but I suspect they will only make minor moves again as that's their MO.

Yeah, Canes are certainly fine in that area.

 

[NMacrules]

Friedman is becoming worse than Eklund. He just makes shit up.

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

I think it’s becoming more and more apparent that he’s going to have to be willing to part with more than he anticipated but in all honesty I don’t think it’s going to take what’s being asked on here.

It’s not going to be Jack, Luke, Nemec, Hischier, Bratt, or Meier (for obvious reasons). I don’t think it will take Mercer but even if it did, assuming the goalie pans out, the upgrade in goal would eventually offset the loss. I mean it would obviously hurt to lose Mercer but the upgrade in goal is important.

For the record I do see the value in waiting for the offseason to see what goalie may be available. I just want Fitz to do something to let us know he has t given up on the team like everyone seems to have.

Sometimes the best thing to do is do nothing and leave it a growth year.....

 

[hidek91]

• Trading for Markstrom now is stupid since Ruff is a terrible coach anyway.

Maybe. Ruff may not be the greatest coach around, but he is not the worst either. Show me a great coach, and I will show you a great goalie. That's a common euphemism in the NHL. At any rate, lots of bad coaches have won the Jack Adams, and I bet some of them even won the Cup too. Regardless, it is a hole on the team that needs to be filled. The Devils were touted as being contenders this year, after having a fantastic season last year. There is at least one glaring hole that needs to be resolved. Maybe there won't be a better goalie available in the off-season, or whenever Ruff gets replaced. From that logic, it is probably better to just throw in the towel and turn into sellers?

The problem is that even if you replace the coach (FWIW, I think that Ruff takes too much heat for the roster issues), you still add high quality goalie to the roster that:
- plays two 7D in their lineup on regular basis (Bahl, Smith),
- plays two rookie D, one of which has a lot to learn defensively (L. Hughes),
- since Hamilton is injured, one could argue we have no legit top pair D-man.
- our forwards don't make up for that this season (Meier, Palat disappointing, losing McLeod, losing fast pieces).

I'd argue that behind this defence, Markstorm's SV% likely drops to .905 and we most likely still miss the playoffs, the absolute best case scenario would be the quick first round exit. Do I sell futures for that? No, thanks.

 

[Smitty426]

The problem is that even if you replace the coach (FWIW, I think that Ruff takes too much heat for the roster issues), you still add high quality goalie to the roster that:
- plays two 7D in their lineup on regular basis (Bahl, Smith),
- plays two rookie D, one of which has a lot to learn defensively (L. Hughes),
- since Hamilton is injured, one could argue we have no legit top pair D-man.
- our forwards don't make up for that this season (Meier, Palat disappointing, losing McLeod, losing fast pieces).

I'd argue that behind this defence, Markstorm's SV% likely drops to .905 and we most likely still miss the playoffs, the absolute best case scenario would be the quick first round exit. Do I sell futures for that? No, thanks.

Add Hanifin or Marcus Pettersson if u want to go less $

 

[Jerzey Devil]

The problem is that even if you replace the coach (FWIW, I think that Ruff takes too much heat for the roster issues), you still add high quality goalie to the roster that:
- plays two 7D in their lineup on regular basis (Bahl, Smith),
- plays two rookie D, one of which has a lot to learn defensively (L. Hughes),
- since Hamilton is injured, one could argue we have no legit top pair D-man.
- our forwards don't make up for that this season (Meier, Palat disappointing, losing McLeod, losing fast pieces).

I'd argue that behind this defence, Markstorm's SV% likely drops to .905 and we most likely still miss the playoffs, the absolute best case scenario would be the quick first round exit. Do I sell futures for that? No, thanks.

Thing is we’re probably going to have to sell futures whether it’s now or in the offseason. Saros and Markstrom both have term left on their contracts so any trade for them now would also benefit the next couple of seasons.

But maybe it is best to wait for the offseason to see who is available,

 

[Bond]

Just some alternative thoughts here to some recent posts from someone who just may be clueless like I am:

• Flames will take a lesser deal in the summer because Edwards is too cheap to retain.

I think that Edwards set the bar too high on retention. Kaplan put out an article that Markstrom himself thought he was traded. That seems like to me the deal just needed to be approved and then fell apart again.
Too bad because keeping Markstrom is a lose/lose the Flames

 

[Reinhart]

I think that Edwards set the bar too high on retention. Kaplan put out an article that Markstrom himself thought he was traded. That seems like to me the deal just needed to be approved and then fell apart again.
Too bad because keeping Markstrom is a lose/lose the Flames

I don't think it is Edwards setting the bar. I don't believe that Edwards is micromanaging things to this level.

I see it as the Flames spent a 1st recently to get rid of x amount salary, and they expect a similar ratio in exchange.

 

[Scintillating10]

Friedman is becoming worse than Eklund. He just makes shit up.

Way Askarov is playing makes sense Saros is traded