San Francisco for the NHL

[LadyStanley]

...I think the sharks could definitely end up there in the long run and be very successful.

This thread seemed to propose a SECOND NHL team in the region.

I don't know that SF can support a NHL team at the level needed to succeed (in addition to the Sharks).

 

[SpartanTom]

This thread seemed to propose a SECOND NHL team in the region.

I don't know that SF can support a NHL team at the level needed to succeed (in addition to the Sharks).

Oh... then yes I agree the Bay Area market is already served.

 

[krudmonk]

San Jose = larger population, larger geographic footprint; and becoming bigger financially with more company HQs.

San Francisco = reducing in all of the above

You're preaching to the choir. I was just explaining why his analogy didn't work.

San Francisco is definitely not losing population or business, it's growing. According to the 2010 census, its population is 805,235, while San Jose is 945,942. Not that much of a difference. Plus I think a larger geographic footprint is a negative. That just means it's less dense, so people need to travel farther. Add to that the fact that San Francisco is the cultural/entertainment hub of the bay area with plenty of transit serving it, and I think the sharks could definitely end up there in the long run and be very successful.

It doesn't take long at all to reach the Pavilion from any part of San Jose. This isn't Dallas or Atlanta, sprawling beyond the horizon in all directions.

As for SF being the "hub," it takes either a bridge or a congested 101 or a slow Caltrain to get there. BART is about a mile from AT&T Park, which is next to the speculated arena site for the Warriors. It's not really more convenient at all. Most of the region lives east/south of SF.

 

[HabsByTheBay]

SF is doing fine population wise and generally business wise as well, it's just SJ is doing so well at both that it looks worse by comparison.

The Sharks would do fine if they never left San Francisco, I just can't say they would do any better than if they were in San Jose, where they are the only game in town.

As for SF being the "hub," it takes either a bridge or a congested 101 or a slow Caltrain to get there. BART is about a mile from AT&T Park, which is next to the speculated arena site for the Warriors. It's not really more convenient at all. Most of the region lives east/south of SF.

It's about 3/4ths of a mile, which you can either spend in a 15 minute walk from the park, or walking down the Embarcadero, which is a lovely thing to do on a nice day.

As for SF being the hub, it's the easiest place for the entire region to get to. Transit and roads feed people towards San Francisco and it's the most centrally located city in the region that isn't a giant crack den. San Jose is at one end of the Bay Area, San Francisco isn't.

 

[krudmonk]

As for SF being the hub, it's the easiest place for the entire region to get to. Transit and roads feed people towards San Francisco

The only roads not from the south are two bridges: both require tolls, one is frequently jammed and the other connects to the Presidio on the other side of town. I've done the Friday commute from Berkeley one time (weird schedule that day) and I never want to deal with Bay Bridge traffic again.

it's the most centrally located city in the region that isn't a giant crack den. San Jose is at one end of the Bay Area, San Francisco isn't.

"Centrally located" posits that there are as many people north and west of SF as there are east and south. That's not very true at all. Santa Clara Valley alone has over 100,000 more people than all four North Bay counties.

Pretty much any location is inconvenient for a significant amount of people. That's just how the region is layed out.

 

[Rick Nash homework]

The dynamics of the sports market San Francisco are pretty fascinating, given the public image of SF and how it contrasts with the public image of your average sports fan.

I mean, to be frank, to what extent does the gay community and beyond that, the "urban sophisticate" community in SF support sports?

What are the urban sophisticates?

 

[Hoser]

Hipster douches?

 

[BigT2002]

Put it in Portland or Seattle if it was going on the Pacific coast IMO.

 

[Rick Nash homework]

Put it in Portland or Seattle if it was going on the Pacific coast IMO.

Weren't you just saying in this thread that Portland and Seattle are so liberal in their thinking of hockey as some midwestern sport that was for men who couldn't play football?

 

[OpenIceHit42]

Would love to see a team in Portland. They draw very well for the Winterhawks and those fans are very knowledgable of the game.

 

[dronald]

All people want in SF is a Hockey team obviously.

Would love to see a team in Portland. They draw very well for the Winterhawks and those fans are very knowledgable of the game.

The average person in Portland doesn't know a damn thing about Hockey.

 

[TheDanceOfMaternity]

SF is an odd city. As we have stated, the geographical size of the city is incredibly small, and even the extreme density of the area amounts to only 10% of the population of the whole area. Half the city consists of immigrants or first generation Americans who probably don't know what the NHL is, not to mention a lot of people move here. It is a very unique spot compared to rest of the bay area, but it's more of a cultural hub. It's not manhattan where it's literally the center of the universe.

I chuckled a bit when I read to build an arena in downtown SF. If you haven't been here before, imagine manhattan with hills, and if Penn Station (right under msg) had one platform and there is no parking and not nearly enough cabs as is. So yeah, not very feasible.

SJ is not very far from SF and not considered by anyone here to be a different area. Its about 50 miles away, and less than an hour on the freeway with no traffic. I drove it today, and used to commute from Palo Alto (about 30 miles south right off the same freeway as SJ), which is quite common.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

The average person in Portland doesn't know a damn thing about Hockey.

Says the guy from Hamilton who can't stand the fact some city other than his own could possibly get a team

Because the average person in (insert average American city here) knew a damn thing about hockey before they got a team...

 

[dronald]

Says the guy from Hamilton who can't stand the fact some city other than his own could possibly get a team

Because the average person in (insert average American city here) knew a damn thing about hockey before they got a team...

I'm also from Portland.

Mom = Portland

Dad= Hamilton

And people in Portland don't know a damn thing about Hockey.

 

[one2gamble]

You also have to take into account that the Sharks have a lot of fans, and a lot of season ticket holders on the central coast. You lose that market if you move much further away.

 

[Killion]

I just dont see it as being in anyway viable. Theres' really nowhere to build an arena that would make any sense and of course you'd be looking at some serious indemnification payments to San Jose, who already draw extensively from the Bay Area and who are locally indistinguishable from San Francisco; all part of the same cloth.

Portland or Seattle sure, but SF?.

 

[Jeremy Hronek]

I'm also from Portland.

Mom = Portland

Dad= Hamilton

And people in Portland don't know a damn thing about Hockey.

Did anyone in San Jose know anything about hockey before they got a team?

 

[tp71]

Did anyone in San Jose know anything about hockey before they got a team?

Possibly with the Seals/Golden Seals in Oakland. San Francisco also had a Seals team in the WHL(minor pro) before they were granted an NHL team.

 

[kdb209]

Did anyone in San Jose know anything about hockey before they got a team?

Yes.

You have to realize that San Jose / Silicon Valley is a region of transplants - an area that boomed (from the mid-70's onwards) from a small city with agricultural roots into the 10th largest city in the US and one the technology capitals of the world.

Large numbers of people (myself included) moved here for jobs - from New York, Boston, Chicago, Detroit, St Louis, Canada, etc. A significant chunk of STHs I knew from the Cow Palace days grew up watching the Rangers/Isles, Bruins, Hawks, Wings, Habs, Leafs, Flyers, Caps, etc.

And, unlike what people have observed in some other non-traditional markets, most of those fans switched allegiances (or at least became Sharks fans in addition to their old teams). It was not a case of fans only showing up for games against their old teams.

It was an area with a highly educated and affluent population - with a large amount of disposable income and a huge corporate base.

It was the plum location of all the early 90's expansions - which was why the League jumped through hoops when the Gunds threatened to move the North Stars to Oakland.

It also benefited from what I'll call the New York Islanders Syndrome - an area hungry to put it's name/identity on a team to step out of the shadow of it's more well known (and significantly smaller) neighbor up the peninsula - similar to what I witnessed on Long Island in the 70's.

Possibly with the Seals/Golden Seals in Oakland. San Francisco also had a Seals team in the WHL(minor pro) before they were granted an NHL team.

I don't think the Seals (and certainly not the WHL version) had a large impact on the success of the Sharks. Relatively few fans I knew back in the early days had more than vague recollection that the Bay Area had a team in the 70's - a very different time and place. I only knew a handful of fans who had ever gone to Seals games.

 

[SJSharksfan39]

I would much rather see a team in Seattle than another team in the Bay Area, especially because Seattle is a great city, and would provide a rivalry to Vancouver.

 

[mooseOAK*]

Any arena in San Francisco would need to be financed 100% by the private sector, the city wouldn't give the 49ers nor the Giants much support at all and they are iconic franchises.

Never say never but I'm saying never. Who wants to fend off beggars all the way of a walk to a game anyhow, San Jose has the one guy under the overpass.

 

[Krigsgaldr]

Hell no, ...way too many California teams as it is. 3 is more than enough.

 

[kdb209]

Never say never but I'm saying never. Who wants to fend off beggars all the way of a walk to a game anyhow, San Jose has the one guy under the overpass.

I wouldn't really call the Trumpet Guy a beggar - more of a street performer - and, BTW, he is an HFBoards member.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Hell no, ...way too many California teams as it is. 3 is more than enough.

I'd love to hear the argument that there are way too many teams in California. That would imply that there are at least two teams you don't agree with being there. This state has as many people in it as Canada. Oakland could house a team right now and probably succeed if it's ran properly and competitive. If Sacramento gets the arena done that they're working on, that market can support a team. Anaheim, LA, and SJ are all doing well.

Please back up this statement with something substantial. Please.

 

[one2gamble]

I'd love to hear the argument that there are way too many teams in California. That would imply that there are at least two teams you don't agree with being there. This state has as many people in it as Canada. Oakland could house a team right now and probably succeed if it's ran properly and competitive. If Sacramento gets the arena done that they're working on, that market can support a team. Anaheim, LA, and SJ are all doing well.

Please back up this statement with something substantial. Please.

The ducks should have never been let into Anaheim.