Proposal: Sam Bennett (CGY) for David Pastrnak (BOS)

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
37,549
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Calgary
IMO Bennett becoming what you outlined is unlikely.

Bennett is already going into his fourth NHL season and he is SO far from becoming that he would have to develop leaps and bounds. Most players reach their prime at 23 and stay there for a few years before declining. Bennett would need two massive leaps in development this year and next if he is compared to the standard development curve.

There's lots of examples of players that peak in their 3-5 seasons. Development is never linear, you cannot say all players are going to be doing "this" and producing like "that" by their 2nd season. Bennett also plays a complex game, built on skill and power, those players tend to take the longest to reach their potential due to physical maturation. Gaudreau took 3 years of college to develop to become a star, Jankowski took 4 years of college, 1 year in the AHL, and will likely need a full year in the NHL of development time and the payoff is looking like he could be a top 6 player. Look at Schiefele, Johanson, Turris, Backlund, Kadri, Wheeler, the list goes on and on. I'm not sitting here telling you that Bennett is going to be a superstar. But you telling me that he should be already playing to his potential at this point in time is completely false. All I care about is the way that he's trending and there are many signs in his game that he's going to be a very good player.
 

Alberta_OReilly_Fan

Bruin fan since 1975
Nov 26, 2006
14,331
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Edmonton Canada
Neutral fan, don't have a dog in the fight, but am a fan of Sam Bennett.

With rumors about Boston's difficulty signing Pastrnak, what does each side think of a deal like this?

On the surface, Calgary gets their young goal scoring top 6 RW.
Boston gets a young center who fits their "style" perfectly and has top 6 potential as Krejci and Bergeron continue to age.

Who says no, who has to add, what has to be added, etc.

honestly if things go horribly wrong and boston is forced to trade pastrnak then a return of Bennett and a first or something might be one of the better trade offers we might get

but I only see that happening if pastrnak is asking for like 9 mill a year... and if he is... why would Calgary want him?


if the contract is reasonable I expect boston would rather keep the better player
 

blankall

Registered User
Jul 4, 2007
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IMO Bennett becoming what you outlined is unlikely.

Bennett is already going into his fourth NHL season and he is SO far from becoming that he would have to develop leaps and bounds. Most players reach their prime at 23 and stay there for a few years before declining. Bennett would need two massive leaps in development this year and next if he is compared to the standard development curve.

The standard curb does not deal with players who started playing at age 18.

Bennett is also going into his 3rd season....1 game plus 2 rounds of playoffs does not qualify as a season.

In his first season he put up 18 goals and 36 points at age 19. In his second season, he was used in a more limited role in order to develop his all around game. I really don't see how he is deviated from this development curve? He put up 36 points and 18 goals as a 19 year old. What exactly are these leaps and bounds he needs to make to become a 50 point 2 way centre? That's his low mark at this stage.

The Bennett proposals need to stop. The Flames have been playing Bennett in a limited role so that he can work on having a well-rounded game. He just turned 21. Please come back in 3 years with the low-ball offers on Bennett.

Other teams are just seeing a great prospect who hasn't put up good numbers yet and hoping they can get Bennett at a severe discount. If Bennett was such a failure, there wouldn't be multiple teams making offers on him.
 

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
16,133
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2022 Cup to Calgary
The Bennett proposals need to stop.

B-b-but he's ripe at age 21. He'd look so decent on people's 4th line LW since apparently that's all he is that teams should just take him off our hands for a nickel and a dime.

:laugh:
:help:

(not referring to this thread specifically, just the general saturation of "Bennett's value is low so we want him" trade threads)
 

Ziggdiezan

Registered User
Apr 10, 2015
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I feel like Calgary fans value Bennett as though he will hit his ceiling for sure while other fan bases values him as a early 1st round pick who hasn't made the impact in the NHL you would hope for from a 21 year old top 5 pick.

Don't see any trade involving Bennet, no one is going to pay the price Flames fans want for him and Calagry would be stupid to sell low on him.
 

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
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2022 Cup to Calgary
I feel like Calgary fans value Bennett as though he will hit his ceiling for sure while other fan bases values him as a early 1st round pick who hasn't made the impact in the NHL you would hope for from a 21 year old top 5 pick.

You're painting Calgary fans as being solely fixated on his ceiling. There's more to it:

Bennett is a 21 year old center who hasn't played an NHL game as a 21 year old yet.

Most offers for Bennett are 26+ year old players with a year left on their deal, who don't fit our long term window or wingers, who, well, are wingers. Often, for both at the same time.

Bennett doesn't need to hit his ceiling to still be a very good center. His ceiling with his hands speed and vision is truly high-end but a few steps below would still be an upgrade on Sean Monahan. Even a Nazem Kadri type "plan B" outcome is more useful to a contender than a lot of the offers being discussed.

Bennett also essentially missed most of his Draft+1 season.

Bennett may have been ranked higher than certain others before his draft, but NHL readiness is a thing. Some players are ready to contribute sooner and put into a role to do so, others might have better projections but need physical development, coaching, experience to get there. Bennett wasn't coached well as a center in Major Junior, and that was why sending him back made no sense either, before you say he was rushed there just wasn't a good choise because last year was his first AHL eligible year and he already had a year (at LW) in the NHL under his belt. He made huge observed strides in his game last year from October to April - only people not watching him think he stagnated. Physically he is still immature, and loses balance at times and lacks strength at others. These are things that are normal for 20 year olds, and guys like Matthew Tkachuk and Leon Draisaitl who are physically mature at 19 are not normal. There's nothing stopping Bennett from filling out his frame with Zetterberg type strength.

Bennett's point totals also shouldn't be judged independant of his role. He got the worst wingers, the awful third defense pair the most often, and his quality of competition actualy wasn't far behind Monahan and many other quality scoring centers. He was put in this situation because developmentally it was better for him.

Finally, our scouting staff and development team has a history of drafting slow-burn NHLers rather than favoring NHL readiness. Backlund took 10 years to hit the 50 point mark, when he turned 21 he only had 12 NHL GP and it was still a long road to mature into the player he is now. Brodie, Giordano, Gaudreau were not instant successes either at Bennett's age. Ferland is just now hitting his stride as a top 6 forward. Baertschi and Granlund had impressive seasons last year. Jankowski was drafted with a 6 year path to the NHL described the night of his draft and yet the Flames were happy to do it. Klimchuk and Poirier have been brought along slowly. Kylington and fox were more players who obviously needed extended development time. Tkachuk and Monahan were exceptions to the Flames' draft history - our team is almost completely homegrown and it is all about exercising patience. Bennett being taken 4th overall does not mean the Flames ever saw him as a player they planned to plop onto the first line and let fly.


Will Sam Bennett hit his ceiling? It doesn't matter, he is not a finished product. He could only hit 75% of his ceiling and be a fantastic two-way top six forward. If he did his his ceiling though, Tkachuk and Bennett would be a nightmare first line for the NHL to deal with, never mind having Gaudreau, Monahan, Jankowski, and Backlund all locked up within a mostly sustainable cap structure.
 

Hunter368

RIP lomiller1, see you in the next life buddy.
Nov 8, 2011
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How is this a thread even? These two players shouldn't be compared to each other, their value is far apart.

/thread
 

Ziggdiezan

Registered User
Apr 10, 2015
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You're painting Calgary fans as being solely fixated on his ceiling. There's more to it.......

As I said I don't think Calgary should trade him and most offers are low balls.

Thing is I feel like some Calgary fans don't incorporate the risk that he will not come close to his ceiling when assigning a value to him. That is only natural, the player is on your team, you watched him develop and like him. Understandable. I get that he is a slow burning prospect but some of those style of prospects burn out and never come close to reaching their ceiling.

Also I don't think Bennett's floor is even close to Kadri. That would be much much closer to his realistic ceiling. The other players you listed that weren't good at Bennett's age probably were top 5 picks though. That is going to change the expectations of a player at a young age.

However other teams are going to look at that risk that he tops out at a 3C or something like that and will value him accordingly. That risks definitely is real.
 

67 others

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Jul 30, 2010
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Sam Bennett is heading into in the same boat as Tomas Hertl right now.

Potential is there, but might never reach it. Has been given opportunities but not capitalized except for a streak here and there.

He is not remotely close to being worth Pastrnak.

Pastrnak is near equal in value to Monahan or Gaudreau.
 

b in vancouver

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Jul 28, 2005
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I get that Cowtown fans like Bennett. There's a lot to like. They see him as a very solid top 6 winger if he reaches (or comes close) to his potential.
Difference is that if Pastrnak reaches his potential he could be challenging for the Art Ross.
 

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
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2022 Cup to Calgary
I get that Cowtown fans like Bennett. There's a lot to like. They see him as a very solid top 6 winger if he reaches (or comes close) to his potential.

He is already a solid top 6 winger. Bennett-Backlund-Frolik was probably our best line in 2015-16 and Bennett was IIRC leading them in scoring before they were split up. Bennett-Backlund-Colborne was also a strong second line in the 2015 playoffs when Bennett was still 18 yeara old. He has never struggled to produce with other top 6 guys, except for his stint with Monahan when Monahan was playing like an AHLer.

The goal is to get Bennett to play center. Top 6 winger, he already is one.

If he truly reaches his potential he will be a bonafide first line center. 70-80 points, strong two-way game, matching up physically to and skating alongside opponents from McDavid to Kopitar.

Difference is that if Pastrnak reaches his potential he could be challenging for the Art Ross.

Perhaps Pastrnak should lead his line in scoring first.
 

Alberta_OReilly_Fan

Bruin fan since 1975
Nov 26, 2006
14,331
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Edmonton Canada
There's lots of examples of players that peak in their 3-5 seasons. Development is never linear, you cannot say all players are going to be doing "this" and producing like "that" by their 2nd season. Bennett also plays a complex game, built on skill and power, those players tend to take the longest to reach their potential due to physical maturation. Gaudreau took 3 years of college to develop to become a star, Jankowski took 4 years of college, 1 year in the AHL, and will likely need a full year in the NHL of development time and the payoff is looking like he could be a top 6 player. Look at Schiefele, Johanson, Turris, Backlund, Kadri, Wheeler, the list goes on and on. I'm not sitting here telling you that Bennett is going to be a superstar. But you telling me that he should be already playing to his potential at this point in time is completely false. All I care about is the way that he's trending and there are many signs in his game that he's going to be a very good player.

Brnnent is reminding me a bit of one of my favorite ex bruins wes walz. I remember how walz destroyed whl and i was expecting him to be our top center... and then i blinked and he was gone

We was just a little undersizes to compete in nhl successfully

So years passed... he got stronger as he became a man... he retuned to nhl at age 30
And had 5 pretty good seasons as one of the leagues better 3rd line centers. Im sure bennent fans will be disappointed if he tops out as a 40 point 3rd line center but as wes walz teaches us theres certainly precedent

Personally i can find value in having a great 3rd liner around. Brian rolston is another ex bruin that has more size/strength... he basically got stuck on 3rd line and was an asset. Then he started scoring and actually was a betted player by the time he was 30

Marc savard got better with more age

We can always find examples that exempt any rules

But anyone that feels bennent is worth pastrnak... they cleary dont understand trade value at all.

Savard became very good later on... rolston became good... even walz became good... none of them has trade value when they were struggling 21-22 year olds
. Heck, marty st louis has to go on waivers. Just because kids have a ton of potential talent doesnt mean they have unlimited trade value if warts are showing on their game
 

Brock Radunske

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I'm sure its been said a hundred different ways so far, but just to summarize:

It would take three Bennetts to move the needle for Boston in a Pasta trade
 

nbwingsfan

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Dec 13, 2009
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He is already a solid top 6 winger. Bennett-Backlund-Frolik was probably our best line in 2015-16 and Bennett was IIRC leading them in scoring before they were split up. Bennett-Backlund-Colborne was also a strong second line in the 2015 playoffs when Bennett was still 18 yeara old. He has never struggled to produce with other top 6 guys, except for his stint with Monahan when Monahan was playing like an AHLer.

The goal is to get Bennett to play center. Top 6 winger, he already is one.

If he truly reaches his potential he will be a bonafide first line center. 70-80 points, strong two-way game, matching up physically to and skating alongside opponents from McDavid to Kopitar.



Perhaps Pastrnak should lead his line in scoring first.

I don't think 36 and 28 pt seasons make you a top 6 player.
 

PatriceBergeronFan

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Jul 15, 2011
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He is already a solid top 6 winger. Bennett-Backlund-Frolik was probably our best line in 2015-16 and Bennett was IIRC leading them in scoring before they were split up. Bennett-Backlund-Colborne was also a strong second line in the 2015 playoffs when Bennett was still 18 yeara old. He has never struggled to produce with other top 6 guys, except for his stint with Monahan when Monahan was playing like an AHLer.

The goal is to get Bennett to play center. Top 6 winger, he already is one.

If he truly reaches his potential he will be a bonafide first line center. 70-80 points, strong two-way game, matching up physically to and skating alongside opponents from McDavid to Kopitar.



Perhaps Pastrnak should lead his line in scoring first.

Pastrnak is far closer to that than Bennett is to reaching your prediction.
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
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Calgary
@AOF, I don't know him personally, but my brother actually played with Walz, they were buddies. Interesting to hear his name again, and yeah he was a good player. Rolston is an interesting name as well.

But I think Bennett is right in that Kadri/Turris wheelhouse, I'm just hopeful that his scoring reaches higher totals. In no way is Bennett worth Pasta, but if the Flames feel confident about who he's going to become (they do). Then they would have no reason to cough up A level assets to fill in the difference of what the B's would want. Apparently the Ducks came calling about Bennett this offseason and nothing came of it. The Flames won't be selling low on him. At the end of the day, this proposal just doesn't make sense, especially at this point in time.
 

McFlyingV

Registered User
Feb 22, 2013
22,860
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Edmonton, Alberta
@AOF, I don't know him personally, but my brother actually played with Walz, they were buddies. Interesting to hear his name again, and yeah he was a good player. Rolston is an interesting name as well.

But I think Bennett is right in that Kadri/Turris wheelhouse, I'm just hopeful that his scoring reaches higher totals. In no way is Bennett worth Pasta, but if the Flames feel confident about who he's going to become (they do). Then they would have no reason to cough up A level assets to fill in the difference of what the B's would want. Apparently the Ducks came calling about Bennett this offseason and nothing came of it. The Flames won't be selling low on him. At the end of the day, this proposal just doesn't make sense, especially at this point in time.

Calgary would certainly be better off keeping him and hoping he can get on track because although the Ducks may have come calling, I feel pretty confident they were likely low-balling just as pretty much every team in the league probably would in a potential Bennett trade. No one is going to give up significant value for a very big maybe of a player.
 

Paralyzer

Hyman >>> Matthews
Sep 29, 2006
15,657
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Neutral fan, don't have a dog in the fight, but am a fan of Sam Bennett.

With rumors about Boston's difficulty signing Pastrnak, what does each side think of a deal like this?

On the surface, Calgary gets their young goal scoring top 6 RW.
Boston gets a young center who fits their "style" perfectly and has top 6 potential as Krejci and Bergeron continue to age.

Who says no, who has to add, what has to be added, etc.

LOL 1 for 1 ain't happening unless the GMs were drinking too much. Calgary adds big time.
 

nmbr_24

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He is already a solid top 6 winger. Bennett-Backlund-Frolik was probably our best line in 2015-16 and Bennett was IIRC leading them in scoring before they were split up. Bennett-Backlund-Colborne was also a strong second line in the 2015 playoffs when Bennett was still 18 yeara old. He has never struggled to produce with other top 6 guys, except for his stint with Monahan when Monahan was playing like an AHLer.

The goal is to get Bennett to play center. Top 6 winger, he already is one.

If he truly reaches his potential he will be a bonafide first line center. 70-80 points, strong two-way game, matching up physically to and skating alongside opponents from McDavid to Kopitar.



Perhaps Pastrnak should lead his line in scoring first.

He was pretty close. He was great for a 20 year old. If he was on the Flames he would have been the leading scorer.
 

Calgareee

Registered User
Jun 29, 2015
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I don't think there has been a single Flames fan that has said that this is fair value. It's simply Flames fans responding to the people that are saying "LOL Bennett is a bust".

Boston would be insane to accept a one for one trade involving Bennett and Pasta. Calgary would take it and run and figure out the cap concerns later.

Calgary is not in a position to be packaging numerous futures on top of Bennett to make the value work.

Calgary also has high hopes for Bennett and have brought him along patiently. They know that selling him now would be selling him for pennies on the dollar.

Hopefully he signs a decent bridge contract this summer and comes on looking to prove himself.
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
37,549
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Calgary
Calgary would certainly be better off keeping him and hoping he can get on track because although the Ducks may have come calling, I feel pretty confident they were likely low-balling just as pretty much every team in the league probably would in a potential Bennett trade. No one is going to give up significant value for a very big maybe of a player.

I have no doubts they were low balled. I'm thinking Nick Ritchie or their 1st round pick from this past draft. I think it's very similar to the Drouin situation last season and look how good Yzerman looks now. Patience is the smart mans game here, if Bennett is dealt for a B-level asset, it will likely haunt the Flames for years.
 

Shruggs Peterson

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Mar 1, 2017
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He is already a solid top 6 winger. Bennett-Backlund-Frolik was probably our best line in 2015-16 and Bennett was IIRC leading them in scoring before they were split up. Bennett-Backlund-Colborne was also a strong second line in the 2015 playoffs when Bennett was still 18 yeara old. He has never struggled to produce with other top 6 guys, except for his stint with Monahan when Monahan was playing like an AHLer.

The goal is to get Bennett to play center. Top 6 winger, he already is one.

If he truly reaches his potential he will be a bonafide first line center. 70-80 points, strong two-way game, matching up physically to and skating alongside opponents from McDavid to Kopitar.



Perhaps Pastrnak should lead his line in scoring first.

I don't understand this thinking at all. Obviously you're a Flames fan and you want your player to do well, but you discredit a player who put up 30 goals and 70 points because Marchand outscored him? While at the same time paint a hypothetical scenario where Bennett could surpass Pastrnak in value if everything goes well.

Bennett may very well have been a part of the Flames best line at one point but the argument you've made is a false equivalency, or could even be used to argue for Pastrnak who has more success in the NHL.

As it's been said many times in this thread, Calgary adds a fair bit if this is a deal they'd want to make.
 

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