Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Yeah, I got nuthin' ....

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I'm not trying to get in a shot. I phrased everything about as diplomatically as possible, I think, and I sure didn't know any more about Panarin than you did.

But the relevant parallel to the present situation was too good to pass up.



The similarities that are there are what matter: a low risk/potentially high reward KHL winger being dismissed out of hand simply because he isn't an NHL property/household name. If Chicago had followed that line of reasoning, they'd have missed out on a rare talent making pennies on the dollar.

We're not so stacked on the wing that we couldn't use a skilled winger on Geno's LW, which is what Zaripov could be if things break right for him. If he fails, we waive him and lose very little of consequence, just like with Plotnikov.



It's not an either/or with Hagelin at this point. We'd only move Hags at the TDL if Zaripov clicked and we needed to open up some cap space.

I mean, moving Hags to open up cap space is an idea that's been banged around here all summer. I like the guy, but in terms of value-for-money, it's difficult to deny that he's the most expendable asset we have right now.

There just flat out isn't a realistic comparison between the two situations, and you know that. We were desperately looking for a winger in 2015, and while Panarin was an unknown, he was in his early 20s and has elite skill. We're now stacked at wing, and this unknown is not only a winger--which we have a ton of, all good fits to boot--but he's 36 years old. It's not that he's an unknown, though that is a factor, it's that he's an unknown that plays a position we're absolutely stacked at. A low risk/high reward situation is fine, but we don't have a spot for him, or a need to take a flier on him.

We have a skilled wing for Geno, it's Kessel, or Sprong. We need a workhorse type, a puckhound, to play with them. I already don't like the Geno-Kessel dynamic much because of Kessel's inability to score off a one-timer and the fact that both rely on carrying the puck to do the most damage/push the pace of the play, but putting someone like Rust or Hagelin on that LW makes a ton more sense.

Even if this guy comes for "pennies on the dollar," where does he fit? Geno's LW? So who gets bumped down, Rust or Hagelin? Cuz someone is going to drop to the 4th line, which without Cullen driving it and Reaves on RW, will likely be getting less than 10 minutes a night.

59-87-43
Z-71-81
17-X-72
62-X-75

Yeah, I don't know, man. Probably not the best use of Hagelin, and likely irritates a guy that seems determined to prove last season was an anomaly based on reports from camp/pre-season.

No thanks. Let someone else receive this boon of Russian talent that's already 36 and banned for PEDs in a country that forcibly loads their athletes full of 'em anyway. I think the 2015 Pens that got eliminated by the Rangers with Johnston at the helm take a shot at him, but the 2017 Pens have absolutely zero need whatsoever.

 

[Gurglesons]

I would like to take this opportunity to say a lot of people seem to be putting Hagelin and Hornqvist together and I don't get it. This team has really benefited from maintaining a high threat level at all times and that's about the least skillful line we can put out from our top 9 forwards. I'd much rather see one of Sheary/Rust down there with Hagelin moving up the order.

What's there to like about Hagelin-x-Hornqvist?

From what I remember they played together a decent amount this playoff run?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

There just flat out isn't a realistic comparison between the two situations, and you know that.

Like I said, the similarities that are there are what matter.

We were desperately looking for a winger in 2015, and while Panarin was an unknown, he was in his early 20s and has elite skill. We're now stacked at wing, and this unknown is not only a winger--which we have a ton of, all good fits to boot--but he's 36 years old. It's not that he's an unknown, though that is a factor, it's that he's an unknown that plays a position we're absolutely stacked at. A low risk/high reward situation is fine, but we don't have a spot for him, or a need to take a flier on him.

If Zaripov came in and had a similar impact to what Panarin had in his rookie year, would you remain adamant that we're too stacked to accommodate him?

We have a skilled wing for Geno, it's Kessel, or Sprong. We need a workhorse type, a puckhound, to play with them. I already don't like the Geno-Kessel dynamic much because of Kessel's inability to score off a one-timer and the fact that both rely on carrying the puck to do the most damage/push the pace of the play, but putting someone like Rust or Hagelin on that LW makes a ton more sense.

Imagine if we could have Zaripov-Malkin-Horny as our 2nd line and Hagelin-XXXXX-Kessel on our 3rd line.

Yeah, I don't know, man. Probably not the best use of Hagelin, and likely irritates a guy that seems determined to prove last season was an anomaly based on reports from camp/pre-season.

Hagelin's been a 3rd line staple virtually his entire time here. I'm not sure why he'd be irritated by that.

 

[Peat]

Providing he's not a defensive liability, Zaripov could do half of what Panarin did in his rookie season and still be a great pick up for under a million.

From what I remember they played together a decent amount this playoff run?

As a walking wounded 4th line unit. Where they were tough, cunning and scored some important goals... but as a 3rd line?

I do remember Sid getting the pair of them at some point. That one didn't last long before it became apparent Sid needed someone with above average hands to do some damage with. I doubt 3C will fare too much better.

Empoleon - Fair enough, but that's a really good reason not to leave the top 6 as is imo. They're gotta be pretty much winning everything single handed with that 3rd line.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Like I said, the similarities that are there are what matter.



If Zaripov came in and had a similar impact to what Panarin had in his rookie year, would you remain adamant that we're too stacked to accommodate him?

The odds that some random 36 year old comes in and drops 30g and 70pts in a league that's a couple years removed and worse off when it comes to production than Panarin's rookie season are minuscule. So much so that it's not even really worth discussing. There's a chance Hagelin puts up those numbers too, I suppose. But the odds are so slim it's not worth discussing.

Imagine if we could have Zaripov-Malkin-Horny as our 2nd line and Hagelin-XXXXX-Kessel on our 3rd line.



Hagelin's been a 3rd line staple virtually his entire time here. I'm not sure why he'd be irritated by that.

So we're gonna drop Rust to the 4th line, in doing so give one of our more effective puckhounds and a guy that's shown great chemistry with Geno in the past (particularly the playoffs, when it matters most) 10 minutes a game, while shoehorning Hornqvist onto Geno's wing, since that's proven to be intensely effective in the past. All in an effort to fit this dude into the lineup when none of us really know a damn thing about him beyond statlines and random snippets from people who watch the ****-show that is the KHL. I dunno man, I just don't see a need for it at all. I get wanting to constantly improve, and evolve, so as not to be stagnant and that kinda thing. I just don't think this is a move that makes a bit of sense whatsoever. And frankly, to continue to compare him to Panarin and that situation from 2015 is a bit disingenuous. You know full well the similarities end at "Unknown Russian player looking to find an NHL team," and the rest of the factors matter a whole lot more than you're letting on.

I get that it's the end of the summer and we're itching for hockey, but this Zaripov situation reeks of "I'm bored, shiny new toy" to me. This roster is set at wing, in my opinion. It's quite literally the last thing we need to be spitballing about when it comes to tinkering with the roster in an effort to improve and work toward a third consecutive Cup. If he was a decade younger, or a center, sure, let's take a shot at him. But he's neither, so, even though good guy Geno spoke up, I'll be happy when he decides to go elsewhere.

Even if this Zaripov guy signs elsewhere and has a decent season, it doesn't mean he'd have been a good fit here, or we should make room for the guy just because. /shrug

 

[PensandCaps]

Hagelin-Sheahan-Hornqvist has the makings of an offensive abomination.

True that.

I'd rather just put Kessel on the third line just for offensive reasons. Hags-Sheahan-Kessel would be fine imo.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

No thanks. Let someone else receive this boon of Russian talent that's already 36 and banned for PEDs in a country that forcibly loads their athletes full of 'em anyway. I think the 2015 Pens that got eliminated by the Rangers with Johnston at the helm take a shot at him, but the 2017 Pens have absolutely zero need whatsoever.

Ya I pretty much agree with this thought process...

I've never seen this guy play, but from a couple of people I trust who have, I've heard he's not a very good skater.

A 36 year old player new to the NHL that isn't a very good skater.... that should throw up a lot of red flags.

We can make Panarin comparisons, which is swell and all, but Plotnikov was a poor skating player brought in from the K and well...

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I'd be a lot more open to the Zaripov thing if A. we didn't have an absolute horde of quality (not just warm bodies) NHL wingers that play important roles on this team, and B. he wasn't ancient. People talk about guys earning a spot all the time, particularly curious when it comes to guys with incredible promise and potential like Sprong, but we're clamoring to land Zaripov--to the point where we're willing to move effective, important guys down the lineup? I dunno man. I suppose I'll just stop my ramblings here since I've made my stance known.

 

[Riptide]

seems to me that prices tend to go up at the deadline.....if I remember correctly.

Depends on the player. I somehow suspect that the cost of someone now (Karlsson/Lindberg/etc) is going to be pretty similar now and at the TD. But even if it does... so what. So the cost goes from a 3rd to a 2nd. Is that really the end of the world?

 

[PartyatMarios]

Marginalizing Kuhnhackl and Archibald as our borderline NHL'ers is a low blow shot. There's quite a few teams that would jump at Kuhn for their PK, he's cheap and blocks a ton of shots, Archie is quick and a forechecking demon, those are the kinds of guys cap strapped teams wait for around the end of the camp to pluck off for nothing.

I know I'm behind on this conversation but I'm hanging on to Archie. Some pages back someone said he was Rust Lite and that is what I see. Speed and forechecking and the scoring could be there. He is a pain in the A ss to play against on a 4th line role

 

[Ogrezilla]

I know I'm behind on this conversation but I'm hanging on to Archie. Some pages back someone said he was Rust Lite and that is what I see. Speed and forechecking and the scoring could be there. He is a pain in the A ss to play against on a 4th line role

at the expense of who? Someone is getting waived or traded. We most likely only keep 13 forwards up. Archibald just isn't in our top 13 forwards as a wing.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Yeah, I like Archibald a lot. He'll likely never be more than a 4th liner with speed, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. You need guys to fill out a 4th line, and Archibald's speed and forechecking ability are strong points. That's a solid thing to have in a guy in today's NHL.

 

[Riptide]

It's the most likely combination to be made with the top-6 staying like it is.

Even if that's true... it doesn't mean we have to like it.

 

[PartyatMarios]

at the expense of who? Someone is getting waived or traded. We most likely only keep 13 forwards up. Archibald just isn't in our top 13 forwards as a wing.

Not sure. The wing situation is a good issue to have but not everyone is going to be happy.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Even if that's true... it doesn't mean we have to like it.

That's not what I'd want to see, personally I'd rather see Sheary on the 3rd line in either of these top-9s:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust/Hornqvist
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Sheary-Sheahan-Hornqvist/Rust

or

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Rust-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-Sheahan-Sheary

I think the top one with Rust on the top line is probably the most realistic if we're not running with GCS.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Hagelin-Sheahan-Hornqvist has the makings of an offensive abomination.

I too, like to write off things before it's ever tried or seen on the ice.

But then again, god forbid any of us say Pouliot is crap based off of ample evidence around here.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Like i said, if theres no other C available other than Sheahan JR is likely gonna get him to sure up the C position or stick with what he has to start with a possible McClement signing.

Hypothetical 1: Sheahan acquired.

-would probably involve Pouliot. Don't see DET wanting 2 roster players.
Sample roster:

Jake-Sid-Sheary
Hags-G-Phil
Rust-Sheahan-Horny
Wilson-Rowney-Reaves
Kuhn, Archie

Dumo-Tang
Cole-Schultz
Maatta-Hunwick
Ruh

Muzz
Niemi

='s 23 man roster. If JR wants McKegg up to 4C. There'd have to be an injury or he waives an Archie, Kuhn, etc. This one makes the most sense to me. Doesn't have to waive anyone he doesn't want to/keeps his depth. Could also simply waive an Archie and sign Zaripov.

Hypothetical 2 - Signing McClement
Sample roster:

Jake-Sid-Sheary
Hags-G-Phil
Rust-Rowney-Horny
Wilson-McClement-Reaves
Kuhn, Archie

Dumo-Tang
Cole-Schultz
Maatta-Hunwick
Ruh, Pooh

Muzz
Niemi

='s 24 man roster. 1 of Kuhn, Archie are waived or theres injuries. If JR wants McKegg up to center the 3rd line. 2 of Kuhn, Archie, Pooh are waived or theres injuries.

Hypothetical 3 - Stick with what he has
Sample roster:

Jake-Sid-Sheary
Hags-G-Phil
Rust-Rowney-Horny
Wilson-McKegg-Reaves
Kuhn, Archie

Dumo-Tang
Cole-Schultz
Maatta-Hunwick
Ruh, Pooh

Muzz
Niemi

='s 24 man roster. 1 of Archie, Kuhn waived or theres injuries.

We'll see what happens but i believe those are the 3 options before him right now unless theres another C out there we don't know about.
Either way the 3C search likely continues.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

Hagelin-Sheahan-Hornqvist has the makings of an offensive abomination.

Hornqvist's offensive game: go to the net
Sheahan's offensive game: go to the net, but kinda suck at it.
Hagelin's offensive game: go to the net, but way faster than everyone else.


No triggerman on that line at all, but the goalie won't be able to see a thing. Not that it really matters. With no puck carrier and no playmaker on the line, I don't see how they could even get the puck into the offensive zone to begin with. If they ever did, they'd all just meet in front of the net, only Hagelin would arrive early. And Sheahan would suck.

 

[PensandCaps]

That's not what I'd want to see, personally I'd rather see Sheary on the 3rd line in either of these top-9s:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust/Hornqvist
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Sheary-Sheahan-Hornqvist/Rust

or

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Rust-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-Sheahan-Sheary

I think the top one with Rust on the top line is probably the most realistic if we're not running with GCS.

Well..what if Sprong makes the roster?

 

[#66]

I really like Johnson and hope he gets a legit shot to make the team.

I think a lot of the Pens problems are solved in house. Then reassess in Dec.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Watching Sheahan play tonight, he's kinda poop or playing like he knows he's gonna be shipped out...

 

[Finesse]

Watching Sheahan play tonight, he's kinda poop or playing like he knows he's gonna be shipped out...

Well yeah, he scored like 2 goals last year.

 

[froods]

Remember when we had no wingers? Boy have times changed.

 

[Riptide]

at the expense of who? Someone is getting waived or traded. We most likely only keep 13 forwards up. Archibald just isn't in our top 13 forwards as a wing.

Why? We will likely have the cap space to have 14F, 7D.

 

[Jacob]

Watching Sheahan play tonight, he's kinda poop or playing like he knows he's gonna be shipped out...

Yeah I've focused in on him in two games now.. and it's only preseason but he is painfully vanilla. Very disengaged. Plays like he doesn't even want the puck on his stick.