Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | We’re going down, down in an earlier round

[Gurglesons]

JR didn't offer him a contract because Sullivan ran him out of town. He was traded in the Cole deal because he didn't have a future here due to Sullivan.



Crosby was better in 2015-2016 and 2016-2017 than he is now. Schultz hasn't been "very good" since 2017. Malkin and Kessel were both massive problems during the second half of the year. Rust and Hornqvist look like shells of what they once did.



I guess if you pretend that the core somehow isn't clearly worse now than it was 3 years ago, I guess you can conclude that.

Three games doesn’t define a player’s career.

Letang was on Norris level this year.

Sid put up 100 points and likely is in contention for a Selke.

The Ian Cole garbage is perpetuated by the media because it was in regards to a player that was friendly with the media.

 

[cheesedanish87]

The biggest problem with the roster is that father time is catching up to the Pens core.

Sid
Geno
Letang
Horny
Phil

All those players are on the wrong side of 30 and are just going to get worse and worse.

The only way to make this roster a contender right now would be to have high end players in the system ready to play big roles on the team.

Pens don't have that, were headed down the same path as Chicago and LA

Hawks era ended in a sweep in the first round to Nashville.

Kings era ended in a sweep in the first round to Vegas

Pens era is also about to end IMO.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Three games doesn’t define a player’s career.

Letang was on Norris level this year.

Sid put up 100 points and likely is in contention for a Selke.

Malkin and Kessel weren't huge liabilities defensively in 2017. Rust and Hornqvist didn't have a stretch of having 2 ES goals over half a season in 2017. Schultz didn't have laughably bad possession stats in 2017. Hagelin could actually produce in 2017, his lack of production is what caused the Penguins to trade him.

You're bringing up Letang and Crosby being excellent now as if those guys weren't also excellent in 2015-2016 and 2016-2017. The guys you should be bringing up are the guys who AREN'T excellent now, not the guys that are still excellent. Pointing to Crosby and Letang still being good as evidence that their core is fine doesn't make any sense when you realize that the core isn't just Crosby and Letang.

The reason the Penguins are down 3-0 in this series is because they can't score goals. That falls on the stars that aren't scoring. Blaming anything else outside of their top end players who aren't producing is just nonsensical. This is the way the team was down the stretch, too.

 

[MrBurghundy]

The biggest problem with the roster is that father time is catching up to the Pens core.

Sid
Geno
Letang
Horny
Phil

All those players are on the wrong side of 30 and are just going to get worse and worse.

The only way to make this roster a contender right now would be to have high end players in the system ready to play big roles on the team.

Pens don't have that, were headed down the same path as Chicago and LA

Hawks era ended in a sweep in the first round to Nashville.

Kings era ended in a sweep in the first round to Vegas

Pens era is also about to end IMO.

Let's hope we're more similar to the Sharks.

Retool, and go for a few more runs at the tail end of Crosby's and Malkin's playing days.

 

[Gurglesons]

The biggest problem with the roster is that father time is catching up to the Pens core.

Sid
Geno
Letang
Horny
Phil

All those players are on the wrong side of 30 and are just going to get worse and worse.

The only way to make this roster a contender right now would be to have high end players in the system ready to play big roles on the team.

Pens don't have that, were headed down the same path as Chicago and LA

Hawks era ended in a sweep in the first round to Nashville.

Kings era ended in a sweep in the first round to Vegas

Pens era is also about to end IMO.

Toews and Kane were never the issue in Chicago.

Same with Doughty and Kopitar.

The issue is giving players like Jack Johnson five years and downgrading your depth unnecessarily.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

And that isn’t on them. That is roster construction.

It's not about placing blame. It's just part of the reality. I agree about the roster construction, but I think people are making it into something far easier than it actually is. Jake is the only difference-maker that's come through the system in years. I don't agree with the moves JR has made on D, but those are partly borne out of having nothing, like literally nothing, in the D pipeline. When you're always trading picks and prospects in order to load up, the cycle is usually going to do it's thing and you're not going to be able to re-up your talent very easily.

The roster could be better, but you're also looking for answers where there aren't any to some extent. This is pretty much the standard evolution of a franchise from basement to contender and back down. We've recently crested the hill and what's next is not anything unusual.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's not about placing blame. It's just part of the reality. I agree about the roster construction, but I think people are making it into something far easier than it actually is. Jake is the only difference-maker that's come through the system in years. I don't agree with the moves JR has made on D, but those are partly borne out of having nothing, like literally nothing, in the D pipeline. When you're always trading picks and prospects in order to load up, the cycle is usually going to do it's thing and you're not going to be able to re-up your talent very easily.

The roster could be better, but you're also looking for answers where there aren't any to some extent. This is pretty much the standard evolution of a franchise from basement to contender and back down. We've recently crested the hill and what's next is not anything unusual.

Go look at where this roster was in 2017. It was fairly easy what we could have done. Look at 2018. De Hann for JJ and you have a huge difference in terms of our record and D. This trade deadline. Acquire Jensen instead of Gudbranson or hell even Beaulieu.

JR has been stabbing himself in the foot for two years and getting a pass for no reason.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Let's hope we're more similar to the Sharks.

The Sharks had a core of Pavelski Thornton and Marleau.

They were able to have a younger core of players come up and help those guys.

Players like Couture Hertl Meier

I don't think the Pens have those type of players that can help the Pens aging core like the Sharks did.

Maybe Jake, but that's about it.

 

[ChaosAgent]

It's not about placing blame. It's just part of the reality. I agree about the roster construction, but I think people are making it into something far easier than it actually is. Jake is the only difference-maker that's come through the system in years. I don't agree with the moves JR has made on D, but those are partly borne out of having nothing, like literally nothing, in the D pipeline. When you're always trading picks and prospects in order to load up, the cycle is usually going to do it's thing and you're not going to be able to re-up your talent very easily.

The roster could be better, but you're also looking for answers where there aren't any to some extent. This is pretty much the standard evolution of a franchise from basement to contender and back down. We've recently crested the hill and what's next is not anything unusual.

Not accepting the core aging is just...it ignores basic realities.

Like expecting Malkin from ages 33-34 to be as good as B2B Malkin was at ages 29-30 is outright delusional thinking.

 

[Gurglesons]

The Sharks had a core of Pavelski Thornton and Marleau.

They were able to have a younger core of players come up and help those guys.

Players like Couture Hertl Meier

I don't think the Pens have those type of players that can help the Pens aging core like the Sharks did.

Maybe Jake, but that's about it.

San Jose also had some early exits. If the Pens play it right the next few years we should be fine. Issue is JR won’t / is incapable.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Toews and Kane were never the issue in Chicago.

Same with Doughty and Kopitar.

The issue is giving players like Jack Johnson five years and downgrading your depth unnecessarily.

What about Keith and Seabrock? Those guys were part of Chicago's core that fell of a cliff.

What about Dustin Brown Jeff Carter and Johnathan Quick?

All those players were part of those teams core that aren't nearly the same players anymore.

 

[ChaosAgent]

San Jose also had some early exits. If the Pens play it right the next few years we should be fine. Issue is JR won’t / is incapable.

Why we can't nudge him towards an honorable retirement is beyond me.

Priority #1 this offseason should be making sure JR is not setting priorities #2-#x.

 

[chethejet]

The concern is the disconnect between who GMJR likes and Sully. Reaves was a capable fourth line RW who gave the Pens needed size and toughness that didn't fit sully's four line concept. then the massive mistake of the Brassard deal was just a killer. Now the Florida trade was a reprive to a degree but the cost in time and picks was enormous.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not accepting the core aging is just...it ignores basic realities.

Like expecting Malkin from ages 33-34 to be as good as B2B Malkin was at ages 29-30 is outright delusional thinking.

Malkin is 32?

 

[Gurglesons]

Why we can't nudge him towards an honorable retirement is beyond me.

Priority #1 this offseason should be making sure JR is not setting priorities #2-#x.

The play was obvious. Bump JR to president and Botts to GM. Instead we’ve got a politician aide as our president and a
bumbling idiot as our GM.

 

[Joejosh999]

I think Maatta has decent value for teams w less speed oriented systems, and systems where the Fs are deeper and come back reliably. You can even see it on the Pens, Olli is far better w support and less open space to manage. When the Fs are AWOL he’s swimming.
Dumo and Schultz in their primes but need injury recovery time.
I don’t see anybody biting on JJ’s contract because it’s ridiculous and he sucks, but Sid likes him so here we are.
Who would bite on Horny or Letang? Horny is one concussion short of retirement, and Letang’s history is worse.
I guess that leaves Phatty, but that’s a scary contract too.

I’m not sure anyone but Olli is easily shop-able.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Malkin is 32?

Oh sorry, here I thought this was a thread about next season.

 

[Joejosh999]

Malkin is 32?

Yes about to turn 33. No spring chicken. And Sid a year behind.

 

[Gurglesons]

Oh sorry, here I thought this was a thread about next season.

Malkin’s issues this year imo were not “Father Time”. Irresponsible D play is not associated with age.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Soooo let’s say this bad boy is over... I think (assuming CAR loses) that the Pens will draft 19th?

 

[JRS91]

JR didn't offer him a contract because Sullivan ran him out of town. He was traded in the Cole deal because he didn't have a future here due to Sullivan.

Can I get a source?

 

[MrBurghundy]

The Sharks had a core of Pavelski Thornton and Marleau.

They were able to have a younger core of players come up and help those guys.

Players like Couture Hertl Meier

I don't think the Pens have those type of players that can help the Pens aging core like the Sharks did.

Maybe Jake, but that's about it.

I think McCann can turn into that type of player. We're going to need an impact center though.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

The play was obvious. Bump JR to president and Botts to GM. Instead we’ve got a politician aide as our president and a
bumbling idiot as our GM.

Buffalo fans don’t exactly love Botteril right now though.

 

[Multigrain]

Things could be worse just think Tampa Bay. Do you unload Gudbranson or keep him?
What about Letangs health? I don't blame age as much as team chemistry as a whole.

 

[Multigrain]

Should they stay or should they go?

Sully - stays
JR - fired yesterday. Please. I wish he'd have already retired.

Alphabetically - forwards
ELC/RFA forwards (ZAR, Simon, Blueger) - keep them but all are available for the right price.
Bjugs - keep him. Bad reflection on us if we deal him again.
Cullen - he's going to retire. Besides, it's time to move on.
Jake - these 3/4 games have probably caused his value to dip. I'm only trading him for a #1D anyway. So he stays.
Hornqvist - thanks, man. But bye.
Kessel - his effort during this series has me reconsidering him for a bit...but he's still a deteriorating asset who is dependent on a powerplay that he also kills at times. Bye.
Malkin - look, as an organization you have to do right by your legends. He's only gone if he asks out, and I don't see that happening.
McCann - available for a top-4 D. Like, a legit one. Otherwise we'll keep him.
Rust - we can't lose all of our RWs in 1 offseason and the other two are greater priorities. He has been miserable since coming back from his latest injury, though. I loved him before that.


Defense
Jacques and Gonchar gone immediately.

Dumo - I'm listening. I think he's a very good defenseman but I fail to understand what he's doing out there sometimes. Perhaps there are external factors; playing Ryan Clark to Letang's Polamalu may not come that easily to him anymore. Or maybe he could benefit from a system change.
Guds - sigh. I guess he can stay.
JJ - I'm willing to go up to a 3rd rounder to dump this contract. Anything beyond that is gravy.
Letang - A great player but not untouchable to me. When the team plays better without him you have to seriously question him. He cultivates dependence in his teammates when he's on the ice.
Maatta - go away.
Petterson - I'd really like to keep him but there are trade scenarios, especially where we're trying to move Kessel and land a big fish on D, where he could prove very valuable in the trade market.

Wonder if its worth trading Letang?

 

[Gurglesons]

Buffalo fans don’t exactly love Botteril right now though.

Well, he improved the team point wise. I dunno.

That team wasn’t a year away from contention.