Salary Cap: Salary Cap+Roster Building: 'twas a great run....

[Andy99]

I think this board thinks higher of Zucker than his own mother.

He's a good player though don't get me wrong.

My problem with him is not that he’s not a good player...it’s that he’s signed for basically infinity at a$5.5 mil per year contract...all we need to add is another bad contract

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Either way, I'd move Kessel to Arizona for their 1st in a heartbeat. You're never going to get Kessel's replacement in a 1-for-1 deal, so to have the opportunity to get a 1st rounder and $7 million in cap space is probably the best we're going to do for Kessel. Gives you some space to go after a big name this summer on July 1st, and gives you a premium asset to package with some other asset(s) to land a significant player via trade.

But again, for the nth time, we've got three dummy blueliners to move out first and foremost, and a GM who just said he's got the best blueline he's ever had here. So...

 

[Andy99]

Either way, I'd move Kessel to Arizona for their 1st in a heartbeat. You're never going to get Kessel's replacement in a 1-for-1 deal, so to have the opportunity to get a 1st rounder and $7 million in cap space is probably the best we're going to do for Kessel. Gives you some space to go after a big name this summer on July 1st, and gives you a premium asset to package with some other asset(s) to land a significant player via trade.

And unless that #14 pick turns into a very good nhl player quickly in a year or two, or we sign a Skinner or Panarin, our team is worse for that deal ...odds are that neither of those things happen, so probabilities favor us being worse off for that deal...

 

[JTG]

This is a pretty important offseason because it really sets the tone for the rest of Sid and Geno's career if JR is really committed to getting younger. He brings back guys who are in their early to mid 20's that play the way Sully wants them to, we are in really good shape. Trade these guys or hold on to them for too long and we are going to have a rough go.

 

[PensPlz]

Arizona doesn't want Kessel.

Kessel would only maintain his production (and value) on a handful of teams in the league, and Arizona isn't one of them. He'd be a 40-50 point, older player in Arizona and they wouldn't pay a 1st for that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Arizona doesn't want Kessel.

Kessel would only maintain his production (and value) on a handful of teams in the league, and Arizona isn't one of them. He'd be a 40-50 point, older player in Arizona and they wouldn't pay a 1st for that.

Well this is just incredibly dumb.

 

[Pancakes]

Arizona doesn't want Kessel.

Kessel would only maintain his production (and value) on a handful of teams in the league, and Arizona isn't one of them. He'd be a 40-50 point, older player in Arizona and they wouldn't pay a 1st for that.

Plenty of teams would want Kessel if we offered him up. The question is whether the offers would make it worth it to actually trade him.

My guess is we're not going to love the return if Kessel is moved. If there were good offers out there for him he probably would have been gone last off season.

 

[JTG]

Arizona doesn't want Kessel.

Kessel would only maintain his production (and value) on a handful of teams in the league, and Arizona isn't one of them. He'd be a 40-50 point, older player in Arizona and they wouldn't pay a 1st for that.

I don't know if they want him or not, but I could see why they would have interest. They have such a young team and they do play a game conducive to how Kessel likes to play. I could see it being a fit.

 

[Trade]

WRONG THREAD.


EDIT: uuhhhhh go pens trade JJ/ Simon sucks.

 

[Andy99]

Plenty of teams would want Kessel if we offered him up. The question is whether the offers would make it worth it to actually trade him.

My guess is we're not going to love the return if Kessel is moved. If there were good offers out there for him he probably would have been gone last off season.

I think if we had a skilled forward waiting in the wings or a great FA ready to sign with us, then the return isn’t as critical...but we can’t just trade him for a poor return and HOPE we can sign someone, and we have no high level prospects to take his place...in that case, it’s not a good move to trade him ...

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

This is a pretty important offseason because it really sets the tone for the rest of Sid and Geno's career if JR is really committed to getting younger. He brings back guys who are in their early to mid 20's that play the way Sully wants them to, we are in really good shape. Trade these guys or hold on to them for too long and we are going to have a rough go.

This is the make or break offseason, in my opinion. Either we begin the process of fixing things, particularly on that blueline, or we just sort of accept the process of circling the drain until we're the Kings because we value "pushback" over actually winning games.

Needless to say, I'm less than optimistic with JR at the helm. He's not only got to add a 2nd pairing blueliner, he's got to ship three others out--four if you don't want to see if Schultz can bounce back. He's also got to find Geno's version of Jake, which isn't going to be easy at all, with regard to cap space or assets used to acquire said player if we go about it via trade.

And unless that #14 pick turns into a very good nhl player quickly in a year or two, or we sign a Skinner or Panarin, our team is worse for that deal ...odds are that neither of those things happen, so probabilities favor us being worse off for that deal...

I mean, Phil's almost assuredly gone. That's my feeling anyway, and has been since the Caps series last spring. I figured this would be his last season here regardless, and a pretty miserable season in terms of play on the ice didn't really do anything to change my mind.

I'm kicking around ideas to get the most out of moving the guy. We're never going to get a significant package back that makes us a stronger team immediately in a Phil trade. We're going to have to get creative and pull something like Phil to Arizona for their 1st, then flip that or our other 1st for something else. Or find some way to move him without retaining cap or getting cap back, and use the free space to chase someone this summer.

There's a chance moving Phil blows up in this team's face, sure. But this team's going nowhere with Phil, and if he has another bad season, he'll be essentially immovable. Lot of talent available this summer. Now's the time to strike while the iron's hot, I think.

 

[Coastal Kev]

And unless that #14 pick turns into a very good nhl player quickly in a year or two, or we sign a Skinner or Panarin, our team is worse for that deal ...odds are that neither of those things happen, so probabilities favor us being worse off for that deal...

Worse than what exactly?

A team that barely makes the playoffs and gets swept out of the first round....

 

[Pancakes]

I think if we had a skilled forward waiting in the wings or a great FA ready to sign with us, then the return isn’t as critical...but we can’t just trade him for a poor return and HOPE we can sign someone, and we have no high level prospects to take his place...in that case, it’s not a good move to trade him ...

Agreed. If the offers aren't there, don't move him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The comment that Kessel would only be a 40-50 player on Arizona is so dumb that I'm actually struggling to find a legitimate justification for it. I said a Coyotes fan was being absurd for saying that Kessel would only be a 50-60 point player on Arizona, yet you have someone in here decreasing that to a 40 point player.

 

[JTG]

This is the make or break offseason, in my opinion. Either we begin the process of fixing things, particularly on that blueline, or we just sort of accept the process of circling the drain until we're the Kings because we value "pushback" over actually winning games.

Needless to say, I'm less than optimistic with JR at the helm. He's not only got to add a 2nd pairing blueliner, he's got to ship three others out--four if you don't want to see if Schultz can bounce back. He's also got to find Geno's version of Jake, which isn't going to be easy at all, with regard to cap space or assets used to acquire said player if we go about it via trade.


I mean, Phil's almost assuredly gone. That's my feeling anyway, and has been since the Caps series last spring. I figured this would be his last season here regardless, and a pretty miserable season in terms of play on the ice didn't really do anything to change my mind.

I'm kicking around ideas to get the most out of moving the guy. We're never going to get a significant package back that makes us a stronger team immediately in a Phil trade. We're going to have to get creative and pull something like Phil to Arizona for their 1st, then flip that or our other 1st for something else. Or find some way to move him without retaining cap or getting cap back, and use the free space to chase someone this summer.

There's a chance moving Phil blows up in this team's face, sure. But this team's going nowhere with Phil, and if he has another bad season, he'll be essentially immovable. Lot of talent available this summer. Now's the time to strike while the iron's hot, I think.

I think we have a decent defense in place, but it needs tweaked. I think Schultz is a guy I'd keep. I think his game has really rounded into form, and if Petterson keeps developing, he's a perfect compliment to Schultz, IMO. I like Gudbranson as a bottom pair guy, but his salary is really steep for that role. Dumo is obviously Dumo. I'd try to flip Letang for youth if possible. Trade Maatta for cap relief. Trade Johnson because I'm tired of seeing him. I'd keep Riikola and use him as a 6. I think with one year over here to get comfortable we will see a much better defenseman next year.

 

[Andy99]

Worse than what exactly?

A team that barely makes the playoffs and gets swept out of the first round....

Could be worse...we could be LA...we might never be a Cup contender again but trading point-per-game players for crap is usually not the path to improving...

 

[Pancakes]

The comment that Kessel would only be a 40-50 player on Arizona is so dumb that I'm actually struggling to find a legitimate justification for it. I said a Coyotes fan was being absurd for saying that Kessel would only be a 50-60 point player on Arizona, yet you have someone in here decreasing that to a 40 point player.

I could see him scoring 60-70 I guess in a world where their PP struggles. But even at his worst he wouldn't drop below 60 points I don't think.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I could see him scoring 60-70 I guess in a world where their PP struggles. But even at his worst he wouldn't drop below 60 points I don't think.

Yeah, I personally had him at 65-75, but 60-70 is also reasonable. If the powerplay is going through him, Kessel is probably going to be in the 25-35 point range for powreplay points. Seeing how he hasn't had fewer than 40 ES points since 2014-2015, it's a safe bet for him to be in the 60+ range. The worst case scenario I'd say is 35 ES points and 25 PP points, which has him at 60 points. There's nothing in Kessel's career that suggests less than that is at all reasonable.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I bet GMJR has interest in Gardiner.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Could be worse...we could be LA...we might never be a Cup contender again but trading point-per-game players for crap is usually not the path to improving...

If you trust your organization, then it won't be for crap, it will be for a part of the plan.

I guess the question is, does anyone trust this current FO to handle the build.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think we have a decent defense in place, but it needs tweaked. I think Schultz is a guy I'd keep. I think his game has really rounded into form, and if Petterson keeps developing, he's a perfect compliment to Schultz, IMO. I like Gudbranson as a bottom pair guy, but his salary is really steep for that role. Dumo is obviously Dumo. I'd try to flip Letang for youth if possible. Trade Maatta for cap relief. Trade Johnson because I'm tired of seeing him. I'd keep Riikola and use him as a 6. I think with one year over here to get comfortable we will see a much better defenseman next year.

I like how you said half decent. I'm not sure if that was a pun, but kudos if it was. I agree though. Dumo, Letang, Petts, and maybe Schultz are guys I'd keep for sure, but that's me assuming Schultz can get back to his highest level again with a more competent partner on his pairing. JJ and Maatta are absolute must-move players to me. The league has wholly passed both of 'em up. Gudbranson's a serviceable bottom pairing guy, but he's not a great skater, not a great passer, and you don't pay a bottom pairing guy $4 million. I'd move him as well, if possible. I'm with you on Riikola though. I think he's, at the very least, a capable bottom pairing guy who can turn into a solid contributor for this team. I saw enough good in the guy in flashes that I'd give him a shot to grow into his role here.

But yeah, the blueline's a bit of a mess. Three guys, potentially four if you don't have faith in Schultz, need to be moved and replaced with more competent, better fits. Geno needs a winger. Sid and Jake need a permanent RW. Kessel's done, I think. Horny's got to go either this summer or next summer. And again, we've got JR to handle all this stuff.

 

[Andy99]

If you trust your organization, then it won't be for crap, it will be for a part of the plan.

I guess the question is, does anyone trust this current FO to handle the build.

I’m in the no column and I’d informally put it at 80% no and 20% yes on this board after watching JR work the last two years...

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I just think you gotta move Phil a season too early as opposed to trying to move him after it's too late. There's a bunch of talent available this summer so it's more feasible that we can find a replacement for Phil's role. Land a guy like Skinner and I don't think you'll see much of a difference in overall production, and Geno's line would be much better at ES. Jake needs top power play time anyway, so Kessel's vacancy would just be Jake's spot now.

Again, it's never going to be Phil for X player straight up. Our best bet, in my opinion, is to move him for a deal like that Arizona 1st, then use that asset (and cap) to find the new guy.

This team's dead in the water as is. I'd rather we move on from Phil now and get younger and better at ES than to hang on to Phil just because we're terrified of the "what if" scenario--as if the "what if" scenario is worse than just barely squeaking into the playoffs on the second to last game of the season, only to get decimated in the first round. That's the reality. Even if we use the results from a Phil trade to go after a significant addition to the blueline, I'd be fine with that. This team has some seriously glaring needs at significant spots; top-6 wing, #3 blueliner being the biggest.

 

[The Old Master]

Our best bet, in my opinion, is to move him for a deal like that Arizona 1st, then use that asset (and cap) to find the new guy.

if we can get Arizona's first , i'm keeping it! we could get a very nice player at that spot.imo

 

[Andy99]

Well, since Yohe doesn't print anything like this without permission, I see the article is pushback from Camp Sullivan to Malkin questioning the system and deployment of players. That in turn suggests that Malkin's end of season comments may not have been (or been seen) less of a 'heat of the moment' thing. That's how the Penguins management/coaches pass the buck and name their media whipping boys game has worked for years. My only hope is that Malkin tells them to **** off instead of taking it, but I doubt he will.

Speaking of his end of season comments, you might be interested in this interview...it repeats at points but not entirely so get to the end...he comments that they may need to change the system, that it’s been the same the last several years, but he also blames himself and the players...in other words, the comments don’t seem as bad as his attempt to comment in English...I wonder if his limited command in English was part of what made them seem more damning...