Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Tell me where it hurts you and I'll tell you who to call

[KIRK]

I got the distinct impression that JR's summer was waiting for Duchene and he believed he was really in on him until the end. That's why I think other moves may not have been made. Duchene was his holy grail this year and it slipped through his grasp. Not too late perhaps with the OTT fire sale...maybe?

Duchene may or may not be why JR didn't try to leverage his 1st for a Karlsson type instead of in the Reaves deal (and again that ASSUMES a deal like that was out there, which I don't, because I know JR was talking to Dallas around the draft, so I do think he was looking for a nice young C/W).

In that context, if he thought Cullen was coming back and that he'd get Duchene or a higher impact 3C eventually, then one can see another reason perhaps why he didn't go bonkers over the summer.

 

[Pancakes]

Maatta, Sheary, Cole, etc aren't going to bring back a huge piece. An earth shaking trade would be Letang being moved. Short of that, you'll get another complementary player back, but nothing more. Nobody is giving us a great piece for Maatta or Cole or any of those guys. You might get a comparable player back, and that might change the chemistry enough to spark things. Or, it might not.

So while I have no doubt JR is big game hunting I do doubt that he can actually pull something meaningful off.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I got the distinct impression that JR's summer was waiting for Duchene and he believed he was really in on him until the end. That's why I think other moves may not have been made. Duchene was his holy grail this year and it slipped through his grasp. Not too late perhaps with the OTT fire sale...maybe?

Dorion might try to recoup as much as he lost for Duchene though, that deal looks horrendous for them right now for what they gave up and they will never get back the spot their 1st and even their 3rd will land (which is a very very high 1st and basically a late 2nd) and a former 1st round player that was just taken in this year's draft.

That's ugly. Real ugly for where they sit and his production. I mean at that point, you're definitely looking to get back a 1st and a top prospect.

I don't think I give up Sprong and a 1st for Duchene after what we've seen. People saying he's lost a step, I see it as well and he's young, that shouldn't happen this early.

And people saying Turris wasn't going to sign, really? It seemed like his ask was 6m/yr which is exactly what Duchene makes and Turris was a better fit. Sens didn't want to commit, then barfed over assets to get a guy that clearly hasn't fit. Hindsight and all of that considered, yikes.

 

[Gurglesons]

Maatta, Sheary, Cole, etc aren't going to bring back a huge piece. An earth shaking trade would be Letang being moved. Short of that, you'll get another complementary player back, but nothing more. Nobody is giving us a great piece for Maatta or Cole or any of those guys. You might get a comparable player back, and that might change the chemistry enough to spark things. Or, it might not.

So while I have no doubt JR is big game hunting I do doubt that he can actually pull something meaningful off.

Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Jake and a combo of Murray and Fleury won us a cup last year.

We don’t need monumentous changes. We need different depth players, different voices, and hungry depth players. I love most of the players on this team, Sheary, Rust, Maatta, Etc. at the same time, shuffling them and getting different players is how you win MULTIPLE cups. Look at the Hawks, look at the Isles, look at the Pens.

 

[WayneSid9987]

TIOPS is saying (for whatever it's worth) that Pens are looking for a trade with BUF. It's not a shake up trade but it would involve Pouliot for Hagelin. Pens like his grit and production this year, and apparently JR wanted to trade for him his first summer here. BUF needs speed on the roster. Pens might have to throw in a pick or mid-level prosepct too. Says Pens aren't interested in Kane
Discuss....

Despite what peeps will say about TIOPS, targeting Pouliot does make sense to me.
Ultimately, like i've been saying JR wants a beef up @ LW and a 3C with Hags and one D of their chosing gone eventually to comfortably pay Horny.

 

[KIRK]

The only problem with that is that the horse trading he's going to have to do now, might be more involved in terms of what he would have had to give up in the summer vs now when maybe the guy he was targeting as a lower risk pick up is doing better and valuations are different now.

I'm hoping or the best, but also dreading the worst.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Despite what peeps will say about TIOPS, targeting Pouliot does make sense to me.
Ultimately, like i've been saying JR wants a beef up @ LW and a 3C with Hags and one D of their chosing gone eventually to comfortably pay Horny.

I was going to say if we can get Pouliot for the 3rd line or even to put with Malkin, we'd be much better situated on the left side. I think it'd take Hagelin + a pick though, no way Botterill does that 1 for 1.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If Haula is available because GMGM has a crush on Cole, I explore that. I stay the f*** out of trying to go for Duchene.

 

[KIRK]

Maatta, Sheary, Cole, etc aren't going to bring back a huge piece. An earth shaking trade would be Letang being moved. Short of that, you'll get another complementary player back, but nothing more. Nobody is giving us a great piece for Maatta or Cole or any of those guys. You might get a comparable player back, and that might change the chemistry enough to spark things. Or, it might not.

So while I have no doubt JR is big game hunting I do doubt that he can actually pull something meaningful off.

1. I think you're underselling Maatta's value, especially by equating it on some level to Cole's.
2. I don't know how much value Sprong has, but Jarry and a 1st definitely also would have value.
3. It may not be just one deal, which is why I keep saying to look 'at the cumulative effect' when he's done.
4. Everyone acknowledges that JR wanting to make a big trade and his finding a dance partner are different issues.

 

[KIRK]

If Haula is available because GMGM has a crush on Cole, I explore that. I stay the **** out of trying to go for Duchene.

You're not getting Huala, who has a higher goals per game number than any Penguins player save Phil, for Cole.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Probably baseless and premature claim: Hagelin is about to be traded.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Probably baseless and premature claim: Hagelin is about to be traded.

Interesting...
GRENADEEEEE! Heh.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I’ve put my pugs in a freezer for a couple of minutes after a walk on a hot day (I kept the door open).

 

[Speaking Moistly]

What really interests me is Cole's value as a trade and sign.

 

[Andy99]

Probably baseless and premature claim: Hagelin is about to be traded.

Maybe TIOPS got that lucky guess right...although Mackey just tweeted everyone was present and accounted for at Pens practice

 

[Pancakes]

1. I think you're underselling Maatta's value, especially by equating it on some level to Cole's.
2. I don't know how much value Sprong has, but Jarry and a 1st definitely also would have value.
3. It may not be just one deal, which is why I keep saying to look 'at the cumulative effect' when he's done.
4. Everyone acknowledges that JR wanting to make a big trade and his finding a dance partner are different issues.

1. I'm sure he has more value than Cole (mostly because of the contract/youth) but I'm not sure he has great value. If we could get a top six forward for him for example I am pretty sure he would have been gone yesterday.

2. Agreed

3. Fair enough. The clock is ticking however. If he wants to heavily tinker with this team with a bunch of deals it's going to take time for all of that to come together.

4. Not so different maybe because the more willing he is to give up something substantial the more likely he is to actually get something done.

Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Jake and a combo of Murray and Fleury won us a cup last year.

We don’t need monumentous changes. We need different depth players, different voices, and hungry depth players. I love most of the players on this team, Sheary, Rust, Maatta, Etc. at the same time, shuffling them and getting different players is how you win MULTIPLE cups. Look at the Hawks, look at the Isles, look at the Pens.

We need a 3c, and could use better depth in general, so on balance I agree with you. But this team might also just be tanked this year. The Metro is very competitive and right now we're on the outside looking in, and maybe a new mix of players won't be enough to change that because maybe our top dogs have too many miles in their legs the past two years. I mean as long as Sid/Malkin continue their up and down play we're going to have an up and down record. A 3c or better roleplayers won't change that much.

 

[KIRK]

Probably baseless and premature claim: Hagelin is about to be traded.

DELETE. DELETE. DELETE.

* My original reply, based on thinking Hags was on L2 LW rather than a HS.

 

[Andy99]

Maybe Hags is scratched or injured?

 

[KIRK]

1. I'm sure he has more value than Cole (mostly because of the contract/youth) but I'm not sure he has great value. If we could get a top six forward for him for example I am pretty sure he would have been gone yesterday.

2. Agreed

3. Fair enough. The clock is ticking however. If he wants to heavily tinker with this team with a bunch of deals it's going to take time for all of that to come together.

4. Not so different maybe because the more willing he is to give up something substantial the more likely he is to actually get something done.

FWIW . . .

1. I know that very early last season, when the Pens were struggling to score, Maatta for JVR was broached. Didn't get overly serious, and then the Pens had a few injuries and D and started scoring. I think Maatta's value is higher now than it was 13 months ago . . . I think they've been so happy with his play they haven't even contemplated to trade him for a top six forward.

3. Not sure how much time. He's been working the phones since summer, but as noted yesterday, he was inquiring. Now, he's pursuing. So, yeah, it won't happen straight away (I doubt anything before the freeze of any significance) but I think it very well could happen by end of month.

4. Of for sure, which is why I noted JR now is pursuing . . .

 

[Gurglesons]

FWIW . . .

1. I know that very early last season, when the Pens were struggling to score, Maatta for JVR was broached. Didn't get overly serious, and then the Pens had a few injuries and D and started scoring. I think Maatta's value is higher now than it was 13 months ago . . . I think they've been so happy with his play they haven't even contemplated to trade him for a top six forward.

2. Letang is a god

3. Not sure how much time. He's been working the phones since summer, but as noted yesterday, he was inquiring. Now, he's pursuing. So, yeah, it won't happen straight away (I doubt anything before the freeze of any significance) but I think it very well could happen by end of month.

4. Of for sure, which is why I noted JR now is pursuing . . .

Interesting # 2.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Maybe TIOPS got that lucky guess right...although Mackey just tweeted everyone was present and accounted for at Pens practice

I was referring to Hagelin being a healthy scratch meaning that he was about to be moved. It seems weird to just HS Hagelin, I didn't notice him to have a particularly bad game against Colorado. Combine that with the Penguins needing a shakeup and Hagelin being a big part of that locker room (presumably), plus Hagelin being poor for over a year now and Rutherford loving to make deals in December, and it's not crazy to think that he could be moved really soon.

 

[KIRK]

Interesting # 2.

 

[KIRK]

Interesting # 2.

Oh crap, I misread that . . . Horny, not Hags, on Geno's LW.

I'm NOT a fan of Horny with Geno OR Horny on the LW, but when I say Geno and Phil need a player with more jam on their LW, Horny is the only guy who realistically qualifies.

 

[Gurglesons]

I was referring to Hagelin being a healthy scratch meaning that he was about to be moved. It seems weird to just HS Hagelin, I didn't notice him to have a particularly bad game against Colorado. Combine that with the Penguins needing a shakeup and Hagelin being a big part of that locker room (presumably), plus Hagelin being poor for over a year now and Rutherford loving to make deals in December, and it's not crazy to think that he could be moved really soon.

I wish Hags made like 2.5 mil like Hansen, because he’d still be worth it at that price as a “go to” 4th liner. Much like Grabs in New York.

 

[Tom Hanks]

DELETE. DELETE. DELETE.

* My original reply, based on thinking Hags was on L2 LW rather than a HS.

Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel was one of the best lines in hockey near the start of last season although it was a shortly lived for some reason.