Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building: Stanley Cup Champions Summertime Blue's...

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ColePens

RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
Mar 27, 2008
107,023
67,649
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@ColePens Most people wouldn't consider a 24 yr old making 925k "salary" when discussing taking back salary to move a player.

My main argument is the people who claimed Maatta would get us a high 2nd or a late 1st for Maatta straight up were out to complete lunch. The guy we got back wouldn't have brought a 1st or 2nd. It's the equivalent of what I thought all around and to be 100% is the absolute best case scenario we could have ever had. We got a 5th and a young cost controlled player. IMO - that was the maximum value.

But that value does not equal a 1st or early 2nd as some thought. It probably doesn't even equal a 3rd. But it was a good move, IMO. People kept thinking #3 was going to bring back a 1st or 2nd.
 

Jag68Sid87

Sullivan gots to go!
Oct 1, 2003
35,590
1,269
Montreal, QC
They better trade Jarry unless they're getting a 1st for DeSmith. It seems like a given that Jarry is being moved though, probably for a mid round pick at the draft.

Why would trading Jarry for a mid-round pick be better than trading DeSmith? I believe a lot of teams would be significantly interested in DeSmith as their backup. I also believe Jarry has more talent to push Matt Murray to greater heights than does DeSmith. Jarry could be a starter for a stretch if Murray gets hurt again. I think DeSmith is more valuable as a strict backup to a 55-60-game goaltender.

Now that they signed Larmi, however, I am fine with trading either player. I just think the player to trade should be the guy with greater value. I believe DeSmith has more value right now.


@audioslaved Kahun played a total of 5:25 on the PK last season. So while CHI isn't lying that he did play there... I'm not sure that's enough to really form much of an opinion as to whether he's actually all that good in that role.

True. Though we should not always take what a player does with one organization as the only reality. Tyler Bozak, for example, never killed penalties for Mike Babcock. He goes to St. Louis and becomes one of their top guys under Berube and helps them win a Cup.

I think Kahun has the speed and defensive chops that Sullivan loves. If we can use someone like this on the PK instead of someone like Garrett Wilson, then it's a pure win for us.

Here is to hoping that Sullivan likes this guy (because with the coach these days, who really knows?).


Cluster of viable bottom 6 Fs.

Wonder what we do with them.

Blueger
ZAR
Rust
Kahun
Simon
A. Johnson
Bjugstad

Even guys like
Di Pauli
Lafferty
Haggerty
Angello

Are probably NHL ready.

I think Simon or ZAR are traded or just waived

I highly doubt that we would waive either player. Aston-Reese does not even have a contract yet. If they have no plans for him they could simply not qualify him. I doubt they will do that. I also think Aston-Reese could be a throw-in as part of a bigger trade.

I suppose Simon could be a throw-in candidate as well, but his cap hit makes him quite valuable to keep.

Blueger and Johnson also need a contract. We might not qualify them if they are not in the plans.

One other bottom-sixer to put on that list is Hornqvist. He should not play with Crosby or Malkin, which makes him a bottom-six winger.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,579
25,408
Doubtful...let’s say you’re JR and you think the problem with the team in part was players with two Cups getting fat and sassy and you want to move JJ and clear some cap space for FA signings. What do you do when looking at your list? Well, as Jules said yesterday, you’re probably going to try to send out Rust with JJ because you can’t get JJ outta here without a sweetener...not signing the young guys you like in ZAR and Simon (regardless of what we think of them) isn’t going to do much for you....

But let’s say you could send Rust and JJ to Ottawa (they need to reach a cap floor) for OTT’s third round pick (top of the round)...would you do it? Yes, it’s a lesser return for a good player in Rust but there’s the JJ anchor lessening his value...now you’ve got a solid pick in the draft and you’ve opened over $7 mil more in space...would you do that?

Not my preferred option, but I'd do it. Particularly if I thought FA looked super tempting.

That said - if you can move a goaltender with Johnson for nothing, and then move Rust, I suspect Rust's futures return would beat that 3rd + whatever the goaltender got. Same end effect, better return.

My main argument is the people who claimed Maatta would get us a high 2nd or a late 1st for Maatta straight up were out to complete lunch. The guy we got back wouldn't have brought a 1st or 2nd. It's the equivalent of what I thought all around and to be 100% is the absolute best case scenario we could have ever had. We got a 5th and a young cost controlled player. IMO - that was the maximum value.

But that value does not equal a 1st or early 2nd as some thought. It probably doesn't even equal a 3rd. But it was a good move, IMO. People kept thinking #3 was going to bring back a 1st or 2nd.

I think you're very much overrating what pick is worth vs a cheap effective player.
 
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Ryder71

Registered User
Nov 24, 2017
23,231
11,213
OM just didn't fit our identity, plain and simple. We garnered cap space, picked up a young speedy playmaker with upside and got a late 5th rounder. It's rare that nearly EVERYONE likes this trade for the Pens.
 

WheresRamziAbid

Registered User
Oct 31, 2013
7,241
2,093
My main argument is the people who claimed Maatta would get us a high 2nd or a late 1st for Maatta straight up were out to complete lunch. The guy we got back wouldn't have brought a 1st or 2nd. It's the equivalent of what I thought all around and to be 100% is the absolute best case scenario we could have ever had. We got a 5th and a young cost controlled player. IMO - that was the maximum value.

But that value does not equal a 1st or early 2nd as some thought. It probably doesn't even equal a 3rd. But it was a good move, IMO. People kept thinking #3 was going to bring back a 1st or 2nd.

I dont think its worse value than a 2nd. A young, cheap winger that put up 35 even strength points as a rookie has value and a 5th
 

Lust for Life

Registered User
Jun 30, 2018
849
1,111
If Kessel waives for Minnesota, I like our forward lineup as it stands. I wouldn't be in a rush to trade anyone from it, but I'd listen to offers for the guys with big contracts (Bjugstad and Rust).

McCann - Crosby - Guentzel
Zucker* - Malkin - Kahun
Simon - Bjugstad - Hornqvist should continue together, for the time being at least.
X - Blueger - Rust

Let ZAR and the others battle it out in camp for the X spot. I think it could be a really good fourth line.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
81,494
79,660
Redmond, WA
I've been saying for months that Maatta's value is a young top-9 forward with 2nd line potential, with me saying that Maatta will probably be traded to Montreal for Lehkonen. Maatta being moved for Kahun is 100% what I expected, so I don't know why anyone is acting like the Penguins got a bad deal with him. He was more undervalued than overvalued by hockey fans without a doubt.
 
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ownal

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Jan 26, 2019
3,041
1,565
Pittsburgh
If Kessel waives for Minnesota, I like our forward lineup as it stands. I wouldn't be in a rush to trade anyone from it, but I'd listen to offers for the guys with big contracts (Bjugstad and Rust).

McCann - Crosby - Guentzel
Zucker* - Malkin - Kahun
Simon - Bjugstad - Hornqvist should continue together, for the time being at least.
X - Blueger - Rust

Let ZAR and the others battle it out in camp for the X spot. I think it could be a really good fourth line.

Why do people keep suggesting Guentzel on the right side? He is very bad on the RW. Check out the split between him on the LW & RW.

Did you not watch Worlds? Zucker - Malkin - Horny would be an amazing line.

Rust isn't a 4th liner. McCann - Bjugstad - Rust would be the most logical 3rd line. Atleast they would score.

Simon - Blueger - Haggerty would probably be the 4th line.

Ethan Prow needs to be looked at as well on RD.
 
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Andy99

Registered User
Jun 26, 2017
50,815
32,893
Not my preferred option, but I'd do it. Particularly if I thought FA looked super tempting.

That said - if you can move a goaltender with Johnson for nothing, and then move Rust, I suspect Rust's futures return would beat that 3rd + whatever the goaltender got. Same end effect, better return.
.

Yeah, I just don’t see our goaltenders being a good enough sweetener to get JJ off the roster without salary retention....I’m not really eager to part with Rust unless it’s either (1) getting JJ out or 2) a really good hockey trade for something else we need like a top 4 LD...
 

Lustaf

Registered User
Nov 26, 2008
5,122
1,147
Victoria, BC
I just want JJ out. JJ out and go with speed/youth. I would be so pumped. Even if we don't win, we are going to a strategy that I love.

But like @IcedCapp said - just stay in a lane and commit to it. This bull**** "balance" is stupid.
Yea I don't get wanting to be a jack of trades kinda team. Pick one thing and be the best at it, not average in everything.
 
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ownal

Registered User
Jan 26, 2019
3,041
1,565
Pittsburgh
How do we get a good look at what Prow could do? Trade Gudbranson for a LD and rotate Ruh/Prow?


Gudbranson/Zar/Jarry for Martinez

Dumo - Letang
Martinez - Schultz
Pedds - Prow

I'd like to see how this shakes out the first half of the season and then make adjustments the second part of the season.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
81,494
79,660
Redmond, WA
So why would anyone trade if they can just wait to pick up waivers?

Because another team may claim them from waivers? This is the same bad argument that people use when they say "why should I trade for a player when I can sign them as a free agent?". It's because there are 29 other teams, and you wanting to get a guy for free doesn't mean you'll get him for free.
 
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Darren McCord

Registered User
Dec 15, 2015
9,516
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So why would anyone trade if they can just wait to pick up waivers?

Cause I trade is guaranteed. You can miss out on player waiting until waivers. Someone will pay. Might not be a lot but could easily be a late round pick
 

NMK11

Registered User
Apr 6, 2013
3,997
1,985
You have to trade one of them because you're losing one of them to waivers if you don't move one.
Yeah, but people pretending they're a big enough sweetener with JJ to get any sort of decent return are deluding themselves
 

Fraction Jackson

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
1,027
49
Phoenix, AZ
With Kahun in the mix now, I really hope the Phil for Zucker trade can happen after all. Kahun seems like an ideal third wheel on pretty much any line - I don't know how much higher his offensive ceiling is than what he showed this year as a rookie, but it doesn't need to be higher than the 40-45 point range for him to be a really useful piece given what else he seems to bring. If you add Zucker to that lineup in Kessel's place, even if it's an offensive downgrade, all of a sudden we have a ton of speed and much better two-way play.

So let's go a little crazier here: let's say we can also move Hornqvist. I like Hornqvist, but his contract, age, and declining production are all worries, so let's say we move him for a bag of pucks. We can probably get someone like Dzingel for similar money or a bit more in FA. That, in this scenario, gives us something like this:

Guentzel-Crosby-Kahun
Zucker-Malkin-Dzingel
McCann-Bjugstad-Rust
Simon-Bluegers-ZAR

It might not be the most dynamic offense in history, but it doesn't need to be; what it does have is speed, depth, and two-way play in spades, and complementary players for both Crosby and Malkin. That in turn takes a lot of pressure off our defense. It doesn't absolve us of the need to improve there, but it means they won't be left out to dry as often. It also gets us back to the kind of team identity that works best for Sullivan's system.

It might not be The Answer, but it might be crazy enough to work.
 
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