Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Now What?

[Ogrezilla]

He's not total garbage but he has absolutely no business even sniffing the ice as a third line center on this squad. He's a decent fourth line center that is being asked to play significantly above his abilities. That isn't his fault, he's exactly as advertised.

This is on mansgement for trying to polish a turd into a diamond and just assuming he could produce with better linemates.

I know, I'm sure you will want to give him another 20 games so we can pretend he isn't terrible offensively.

I just don't want to sit around until January while we wait for Riley Sheahan to sink or swim and I'm afraid that's what is going to happen.

Dude, who should we be getting instead? Who is available right now that would be better? Do you really just not understand the meaning of the word stopgap?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Dude, who should we be getting instead? Who is available right now that would be better? Do you really just not understand the meaning of the word stopgap?

Why are you bothering? Everyone's been explaining this sort of thing to him all summer, but he ignores it and just repeats the same thing over and over.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'm still not convinced Sheahan is any better than McKegg or Rowney - he's scoring about the same (despite playing with better wingers) and isn't really distinguishing himself from them defensively. But we're down Rowney now, so at least Sheahan came in at a good time.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'm still not convinced Sheahan is any better than McKegg or Rowney - he's scoring about the same (despite playing with better wingers) and isn't really distinguishing himself from them defensively. But we're down Rowney now, so at least Sheahan came in at a good time.

again though, nobody is scoring. Nobody. How can you point your finger at Sheahan and say "That guy's offense isn't good enough" when he's keeping pace with Sidney Crosby since getting here.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

again though, nobody is scoring. Nobody. How can you point your finger at Sheahan and say he isn't scoring when he's keeping pace with Sidney Crosby since getting here.

I point my finger at Crosby and say he's playing crappy too. The difference is that we have a long track record of Crosby playing well to fall back on. What Sheahan's doing here has actually been his established standard for the past 100 games or so. He's been given better wingers than any 3rd line center should hope to have and he's still doing jack with it.

Maybe one of the common determining factors of the Pens' lack of success now and the Wings' lack of success last year is that they can't get any offense from their 3rd line because Riley Sheahan centers it.

 

[Pens x]

Dude, who should we be getting instead? Who is available right now that would be better? Do you really just not understand the meaning of the word stopgap?

I just think Sheahan is playing way over his head and it's unfair to him.

For the 30th time, I would have signed some sort of free agent center if I knew Bones was leaving before free agency.

I would have tried Jake at 3C before helping out Detroit by overpaying for their cap dump.

Hell, I might have tried Wilson at center before resorting to Sheahan.

I just don't understand the point of overpaying, even slightly, for Sheahan. I don't think we are any better off now than we were before acquiring Sheahan. In fact, I'd argue we are actually worse off after losing a third round pick, cap space and Wilson (who was a serviceable NHL on this team last season). Instead, we play Wilson for 3 games and decide to ship him off to Detroit. Deteoit's hands were tied, they should have sweetened the deal for us.

This trade by itself isn't going to hurt the Pens long term but I feel we are a worse team as a result.

Now management will likely sit back and give Sheahan time to develop here. I don't think he's good enough to warrant such treatment. I Sheahan was some no name NHLer and played exactly the same as he has played so far, I'm willing to bet the majority would be in the he's not good enough boat.

I think it would be hard to find an NHL player that would produce as little as Sheahan has with the linemates he's had here. I'm surprised some pucks havent accidentally deflected off his stick or his body by now to be honest.

The fact that Crosby isn't producing does change the fact that Sheahan isn't.

 

[Nakawick]

Sheahan is Nick Spaling level of sexiness.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'm still not convinced Sheahan is any better than McKegg or Rowney - he's scoring about the same (despite playing with better wingers) and isn't really distinguishing himself from them defensively. But we're down Rowney now, so at least Sheahan came in at a good time.

You're judging Sheahan's offense over a stretch where Crosby has zero goals as well, and where the Pens, as a team, have something like 5 even strength goals in 8 games.

I don't know how you can judge one specific player based on a stretch where NO ONE is scoring. If anything, it would be miraculous if Sheahan had 3 or 4 points right now because it would make him the top scorer on the entire team at 5 on 5 over that stretch.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You're judging Sheahan's offense over a stretch where Crosby has zero goals as well, and where the Pens, as a team, have something like 5 even strength goals in 8 games.

I don't know how you can judge one specific player based on a stretch where NO ONE is scoring. If anything, it would be miraculous if Sheahan had 3 or 4 points right now because it would make him the top scorer on the entire team at 5 on 5 over that stretch.

It's not like players can only produce within a certain percentage of a star's production over a rough stretch. There isn't some magical spell over the team where everybody has to play poorly. One of the frequently-cited reasons why the Pens are playing badly is because they've played a shit ton of hockey the last 2 years. Well Sheahan's had some real long summers lately, the best wingers he could hope to have here, and he's still a total non-factor offensively...as he's been for over a year straight.

Maybe the problem is just that Sheahan's the equivalent of a 4th liner offensively now.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Yeah, it really needs to be reiterated that Sheahan has been involved in 1 of their 8 ES goals since he's been here. ES scoring is their f***ing unicorn right now.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It's not like players can only produce within a certain percentage of a star's production over a rough stretch. There isn't some magical spell over the team where everybody has to play poorly. One of the frequently-cited reasons why the Pens are playing badly is because they've played a **** ton of hockey the last 2 years. Well Sheahan's had some real long summers lately, the best wingers he could hope to have here, and he's still a total non-factor offensively...as he's been for over a year straight.

Maybe the problem is just that Sheahan's the equivalent of a 4th liner offensively now.

My point isn't that "players can only produce within a certain percentage of a star's production over a rough stretch". My point is the entire team can't score right now, so I'm not sure focusing on Sheahan's offense when the team as a whole can't score, is painting an accurate picture of his ultimate offensive upside.

It would be one thing if everyone else was scoring, but Sheahan wasn't. Or if his wingers are producing when they're on a different line, then suddenly go silent as soon as they get moved onto his line. But that isn't the case.

I simply don't think you can draw conclusions about a specific player during a stretch of games where literally all 12 forwards can't buy a goal.

 

[Peat]

It's not like players can only produce within a certain percentage of a star's production over a rough stretch. There isn't some magical spell over the team where everybody has to play poorly. One of the frequently-cited reasons why the Pens are playing badly is because they've played a **** ton of hockey the last 2 years. Well Sheahan's had some real long summers lately, the best wingers he could hope to have here, and he's still a total non-factor offensively...as he's been for over a year straight.

Maybe the problem is just that Sheahan's the equivalent of a 4th liner offensively now.

Giving a guy a Ferrari sounds great until you reveal he's due to drive over rough terrain. Guentzel and Kessel are some major talent (when in form, their lack of 5v5 scoring pre-dates Sheahan), but its not an ideal pairing for starting deep in your defensive zone and doesn't really do him any favours. He needs Geno's wingers and Geno needs his wingers.

And how do you know there isn't a magical spell over the team forcing them all to play poorly? Its about as logical an explanation of what's going on as most

 

[Ogrezilla]

I point my finger at Crosby and say he's playing crappy too. The difference is that we have a long track record of Crosby playing well to fall back on. What Sheahan's doing here has actually been his established standard for the past 100 games or so. He's been given better wingers than any 3rd line center should hope to have and he's still doing jack with it.

Maybe one of the common determining factors of the Pens' lack of success now and the Wings' lack of success last year is that they can't get any offense from their 3rd line because Riley Sheahan centers it.

You know way too much about hockey to believe that Riley Sheahan is why Crosby and Malkin can't score at 5 on 5. Come on now.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Yeah, it really needs to be reiterated that Sheahan has been involved in 1 of their 8 ES goals since he's been here. ES scoring is their ****ing unicorn right now.

5 ES goals in our last 8 games. 7 if you want to count 3v3 OT as even strength. It's a mess far beyond our bottom 6.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Sheahan is Nick Spaling level of sexiness.

so, an upgrade on what we had.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

5 ES goals. 1 of 5 in those 8 games. 7 if you want to count 3v3 OT as even strength.

...I can't count?

 

[Ogrezilla]

...I can't count?

I just edited. I might be mixing up when he got here. It's 5 in the last 8 games. I think he got here before that though, my bad.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

My point isn't that "players can only produce within a certain percentage of a star's production over a rough stretch". My point is the entire team can't score right now, so I'm not sure focusing on Sheahan's offense when the team as a whole can't score, is painting an accurate picture of his ultimate offensive upside.

It would be one thing if everyone else was scoring, but Sheahan wasn't. Or if his wingers are producing when they're on a different line, then suddenly go silent as soon as they get moved onto his line. But that isn't the case.

I simply don't think you can draw conclusions about a specific player during a stretch of games where literally all 12 forwards can't buy a goal.

Giving a guy a Ferrari sounds great until you reveal he's due to drive over rough terrain. Guentzel and Kessel are some major talent (when in form, their lack of 5v5 scoring pre-dates Sheahan), but its not an ideal pairing for starting deep in your defensive zone and doesn't really do him any favours. He needs Geno's wingers and Geno needs his wingers.

And how do you know there isn't a magical spell over the team forcing them all to play poorly? Its about as logical an explanation of what's going on as most

I dunno, I just thought one of our biggest problems was supposed to be that we were tired from the last couple years, and one of Sheahan's biggest problems was supposed to be that he didn't have good enough wingers in Detroit last year. Sheahan should be fresh as a daisy and he's got better wingers than Sid or Geno now.

As for needing different wingers...if Sheahan had started with Kuhn and Rust and wasn't producing people would be saying he needed a Kessel or Guentzel on his line.

I'm not drawing definitive conclusions here but maybe we should start expecting this to be Sheahan's norm rather than some 100 game aberration.

 

[Peat]

I just edited. I might be mixing up when he got here. It's 5 in the last 8 games. I think he got here before that though, my bad.

Sheahan's played 7 games for us.

 

[Riptide]

That has to be the worst argument that I've ever seen on this site, being the third best center on this team isn't impressive in the least. Come on man. This is equivalent to a Bengals fan bragging that they are the third best team in the AFC North. Give me a friggin break.

That you're being completely ridiculous? No, that's a pretty accurate statement.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Sheahan's played 7 games for us.

well maybe I'm just a damn mess then, I dunno

 

[Riptide]

Yea, I see a non-homer fan that is capable of having a normal conversation about the Pens. I recognize both sides of the coin, what the Pens do right and what they do wrong. I don't blindly accept every decision by management strictly because we just won back to back cups. I didn't defend Fleury because of his personality like half of the fans here.

Then I guarantee you, you're the only one seeing that.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You know way too much about hockey to believe that Riley Sheahan is why Crosby and Malkin can't score at 5 on 5. Come on now.

I'm not saying that though. I'm saying that Crosby and Malkin probably can't score 5-on-5 lately because they've played a lot of hockey the last couple years and have occasional stretches of low production which they always swiftly bounce back from. 3rd lines with Sheahan probably can't score 5-on-5 lately because 3rd lines with Sheahan haven't been able to score 5-on-5 in 100 games.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'm not saying that though. I'm saying that Crosby and Malkin probably can't score 5-on-5 lately because they've played a lot of hockey the last couple years and have occasional stretches of low production which they always swiftly bounce back from. 3rd lines with Sheahan probably can't score 5-on-5 lately because 3rd lines with Sheahan haven't been able to score 5-on-5 in 100 games.

maybe. I'm still guessing he's on our 4th line by March.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

well maybe I'm just a damn mess then, I dunno

I think we're both idiots. Maybe.