Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Monday, February 26

[Gurglesons]

Well our 4C is awful, so I agree.

Yeah, I think ideally you get a player that pushes Riley to the 4C, but if you can get either a more offensively talented center that can share minutes with Sheahan, or at worst someone that can lessen that line’s defensive role you can do some damage in the playoffs.

 

[Ryder71]

Well our 4C is awful, so I agree.

Can't argue with that point.

 

[Riptide]

Please stop cherry picking, thanks.

Yeah that's what I thought. Logic and rational... naw I'll ^^ just go with a one liner because once I can't actually refute what was said. And you're the one talking about clowns. Sad.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Yeah, I think ideally you get a player that pushes Riley to the 4C, but if you can get either a more offensively talented center that can share minutes with Sheahan, or at worst someone that can lessen that line’s defensive role you can do some damage in the playoffs.

agreed. A really good 3C would be best. But if solid 4C and a LW upgrade is a route we should consider if we can't get a high end 3C for a reasonable price. And honestly, we probably can't. Not unless we take a risk on someone either unproven or a reclamation project.

 

[ColePens]

DobberHockey Presents FrozenPool's Line Production

yeah, 6 of his points have come while playing with Reaves.

That deserves a damn medal.

 

[Riptide]

Pageau isn't that much of a upgrade to offset the costs.

He comes in as another smallish player who'd help contribute to loss in puck battles.

Pageau is a lateral move. You'll have to rob Peter to pay Paul. He just doesn't have enough stock for me to just pull the trigger. At that cost I'd want more than either Sheahan or Pageau provide.

So why even trade for him. He doesn't improve if you are just swapping out. That isn't depth.

Yes and no. The big advantage is you now have RS or JGP as your 4C. That's pretty good depth. I don't think you've moved the needle much (if at all) as your 3C, but you've made a drastic change to your 4C vs what we currently have in Rowney. I think there's much cheaper ways to do that by getting someone like Letestu or Richardson or the likes... but RS/JGP as your 4C is the exact definition of depth.

 

[Ogrezilla]

That deserves a damn medal.

Both of their biggest weaknesses offensively is being left behind the play imo. Together, they don't have that issue. Put one slow guy on a line and he gets left behind. But put them together and they work as a change-up line basically.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Please stop cherry picking, thanks.

Please start figuring out that analysing two different things is stupid.

Looking at PP stats for players that will never recieve PP time is so dumb.

Might as well include how many little league HRs they had too. Is almost as irrelevant.

 

[Ryder71]

Yeah that's what I thought. Logic and rational... naw I'll ^^ just go with a one liner because once I can't actually refute what was said. And you're the one talking about clowns. Sad.

What's sad is that you constantly cherry pick. And I'm not the only person who's called you out on it. You can't aptly or accurately debate a matter and omit stats or numbers you don't like. It's not the adult way to debate a subject.

Here's an analogy that perfectly describes what you do at times. My friends wife went to a casino, she told her husband that she won $1,500.00. So he was pretty pumped. But when she got home she only had $200. And he asked her what happened. She then proceeded to tell him that ''it took about 1,300.00 to get the 1,500.00''. lol

That's what you do, you distort the truth.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes and no. The big advantage is you now have RS or JGP as your 4C. That's pretty good depth. I don't think you've moved the needle much (if at all) as your 3C, but you've made a drastic change to your 4C vs what we currently have in Rowney. I think there's much cheaper ways to do that by getting someone like Letestu or Richardson or the likes... but RS/JGP as your 4C is the exact definition of depth.

The other big advantage is Pageau is versatile as a winger. Pageau - Malkin - Rust could be a monster line down the line if one of the WBS centers show to be a solid player.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Yes and no. The big advantage is you now have RS or JGP as your 4C. That's pretty good depth. I don't think you've moved the needle much (if at all) as your 3C, but you've made a drastic change to your 4C vs what we currently have in Rowney. I think there's much cheaper ways to do that by getting someone like Letestu or Richardson or the likes... but RS/JGP as your 4C is the exact definition of depth.

What I mean is who is going out that Ottawa would take?

If it's Sheary then that's a lateral move.

The cost for Pageau is high.

 

[Ryder71]

Please start figuring out that analysing two different things is stupid.

Looking at PP stats for players that will never recieve PP time is so dumb.

Might as well include how many little league HRs they had too. Is almost as irrelevant.

I'm not talking about PP stats in particular, I'm speaking in general terms that you should look at all components and variables. Common sense.

 

[Riptide]

What's sad is that you constantly cherry pick. And I'm not the only person who's called you out on it. You can't aptly or accurately debate a matter and omit stats or numbers you don't like. It's not the adult way to debate a subject.

Here's an analogy that perfectly describes what you do at times. My friends wife went to a casino, she told her husband that she won $1,500.00. So he was pretty pumped. But when she got home she only had $200. And he asked her what happened. She then proceeded to tell him that ''it took about 1,300.00 to get the 1,500.00''. lol

That's what you do, you distort the truth.

Like I said, you won't respond to what's actually written - well done.

 

[Riptide]

This will all be dependant on this year plus playoff success.

He should be right in the Pageau contract stage around the 3.0 range. He also doesn't require sending more assets to retain.

I doubt he's getting that if he's not getting term as well. And I think we would need to see a lot more of him with different players before even starting a discussion about how much term and at what AAV we'd want to give him.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

What's sad is that you constantly cherry pick. And I'm not the only person who's called you out on it. You can't aptly or accurately debate a matter and omit stats or numbers you don't like. It's not the adult way to debate a subject.

Here's an analogy that perfectly describes what you do at times. My friends wife went to a casino, she told her husband that she won $1,500.00. So he was pretty pumped. But when she got home she only had $200. And he asked her what happened. She then proceeded to tell him that ''it took about 1,300.00 to get the 1,500.00''. lol

That's what you do, you distort the truth.

No what hes doing is excluding variables that dont matter.

Your shit examble is someone using fact to distort the true answer.

What Rip is doing is changing the question to correctly exclude unuseful information.

If anything YOU are the one using total points (won 1500) and he is using iseful information (net 200).

 

[Shaffer]

What's sad is that you constantly cherry pick. And I'm not the only person who's called you out on it. You can't aptly or accurately debate a matter and omit stats or numbers you don't like. It's not the adult way to debate a subject.

Here's an analogy that perfectly describes what you do at times. My friends wife went to a casino, she told her husband that she won $1,500.00. So he was pretty pumped. But when she got home she only had $200. And he asked her what happened. She then proceeded to tell him that ''it took about 1,300.00 to get the 1,500.00''. lol

That's what you do, you distort the truth.

Why don’t you make up an agrument for what Riptide isn’t saying instead of complaining about him “cherry-picking stats*”

*I didn’t actually read EVERYTHING Riptide said, but don’t complain about it. Make an argument. Maybe Riptide did cherry-pick and maybe he didn’t ... but make an argument.

 

[Ryder71]

Like I said, you won't respond to what's actually written - well done.

And you won't stop cherry picking and manipulating an argument and in the process moving the goal posts and distorting the truth. You're consistent if nothing else.

 

[Ryder71]

Why don’t you make up an agrument for what Riptide isn’t saying instead of complaining about him “cherry-picking stats*”

*I don’t actually read EVERYTHING Riptide said, but don’t complain about it. Make an argument.

I've made arguments about this matter time and time again. I don't need to do it every time he cherry picks.

 

[Shaffer]

I've made arguments about this matter time and time again. I don't need to do it every time he cherry picks.

1) What is he cherrypicking? What stats are he using?

2) Provide an argument using stats that he didn’t use.

 

[Ryder71]

No what hes doing is excluding variables that dont matter.

Your **** examble is someone using fact to distort the true answer.

What Rip is doing is changing the question to correctly exclude unuseful information.

If anything YOU are the one using total points (won 1500) and he is using iseful information (net 200).

And they don't matter because they don't fit his argument? All I'm saying is you can't just take one stat and pretend that nothing else is relevant. Again this is common sense. This should not be a unique or foreign concept.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I've made arguments about this matter time and time again. I don't need to do it every time he cherry picks.

Cant understand the difference between cherry picking and eliminating useless varaibles. No wonder you keep losing this argument.

 

[Ryder71]

1) What is he cherrypicking? What stats are he using?

2) Provide an argument using stats that he didn’t use.

He looks solely at ES numbers. He doesn't use any other stat that is relevant. He doesn't take into account ice time, the quality of line mates, the team a player is on, Possession numbers, PP, EN,PK and on and on. And if he does he doesn't look at all numbers. Just the ones he wants to.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

And they don't matter because they don't fit his argument? All I'm saying is you can't just take one stat and pretend that nothing else is relevant. Again this is common sense. This should not be a unique or foreign concept.

They dont matter because that player will not be used on the PP so including his PP stats is distorting the actual relevant information to the specific team acquiring him.

Does having a bunch of PP points make one guy better than the other? I sure can. But it is IRRELEVANT to US. Because that player wont be getting PP time.

Its not that hard.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This needs to be reiterated: Sheahan as the 3C isn't a problem. Rowney as the 4C is the problem here. You need to find some way to get Rowney out of the lineup, whether it's bringing in a 3C or 4C. The Penguins will be fine if Sheahan sticks as the 3C, he's an average 3C who has played like a good 3C for the Penguins.

Bringing in a better 3C is a better option because it means the Penguins bottom-6 centers will be better than if they just brought in a 4C, not because Sheahan can't be a 3C here.

 

[Riptide]

What I mean is who is going out that Ottawa would take?

If it's Sheary then that's a lateral move.

The cost for Pageau is high.

Maybe. That would really depend on how Simon continues to do and what ZAR shows and what Sprong could show should he get another chance (I think he will). I constantly go back and forth on how willing I am to move Sheary this season. Off season? Sure, no issue (in the right deal). But now? It's really dependent on who you're getting for him but also on how you plan on constructing the lines and how well Simon does, and how willing you'd be to place Sheary or Simon on the 4th line if that's what's best for the rest of the lineup. I mean in the below example, if you can replace Sheary with another center that's at or above Sheahan's level, that's not really a lateral move. But in order to do that you have to be pretty confident in Simon/Sprong and how the rest of the lines fit together... because Sheary really is a solid depth winger who can kind fit anywhere depending on the rest of the line.

Simon - Crosby - Rust
Hagelin - Malkin - Kessel
Guentzel - Sheahan - Hornqvist
Sheary - XXXXX - Kuhnhackl