Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Monday, February 26

[Coastal Kev]

The absolute best the Pens have looked all year was when Sully the Oaf placed Sprong on the top line with Sid.


thanks Mike

 

[WayneSid9987]

I would've liked Spronger to get alotta home games to see what he could do. Most of the games he played were on the road, i believe.

But i get the demotion. With Simon, they had enough skill/scoring to go around but then Sheary plays crappy and gets injured, then Horny goes down...

ZAR, a guy who projects out to a bottom 6, Scott Wilson type at best imo, should not have been the call up when you have the NJD and LV next up.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm surprised we haven't seen any significant trades recently, not only from the Penguins but anyone. There has only been 1 significant trade since the start of December, and that was the Panik for Duclair trade. Maybe the big trades for the year have happened already in November, with the Duchene/Turris trade and the Henrique for Vatanen trade. You usually see more significant trades than what we've seen in December and January. Last year was also like this.

 

[NMK11]

People might say this package isn't enough, but I think Cole and Gustavsson for Pageau might get you pretty close to Pageau, if Ottawa is looking to sell off Pageau for a reasonable price. It depends on how highly they value Gus and what the market is for Cole, though. If they like Gustavsson a lot and Cole can bring back a 2nd or more, I don't think it's bad.

Cole is a rental. Unless he agrees to a deal before hand or Ottawa thinks they can flip him for a high pick, they aren't going to want him.

 

[Andy99]

Kypreos is saying the ask for Pacioretty is a 1st, 2nd, "warm body" roster player and a top prospect. This is how ridiculous it's going to be to get someone who can really help us. Sorry, but I wouldn't part with two high draft picks, Sprong and someone else for Patches. I hope JR isn't going to get caught in a massive overpayment somewhere....

Edit: This is why we haven't seen a lot of trades....

 

[ColePens]

Kypreos is saying the ask for Pacioretty is a 1st, 2nd, "warm body" roster player and a top prospect. This is how ridiculous it's going to be to get someone who can really help us. Sorry, but I wouldn't part with two high draft picks, Sprong and someone else for Patches. I hope JR isn't going to get caught in a massive overpayment somewhere....

Edit: This is why we haven't seen a lot of trades....

This is the part that is a bit strange to me. Teams are refusing to commit to a rebuild without being overpaid to do so. That's really silly. Montreal - do you really think you have the pieces moving forward? If no - then make changes. If yes - then stay put and simply move your rental.

Pacs for that price is stupid. Montreal can continue to play like hot garbage. Go out there and get those grinders! Montreal is only hurting Montreal if there is no commitment either way. And i'm not saying they HAVE to sell. Just choose.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Cole is a rental. Unless he agrees to a deal before hand or Ottawa thinks they can flip him for a high pick, they aren't going to want him.

I think the idea would be Ottawa flipping him for a draft pick or 2. That's why I said it depends on the market for Cole, if they can get a good return, they'd probably like him more.

 

[Peat]

I think Sakic finally getting his haul for Duchene (and also seeing Colorado turn around with no other moves) is encouraging other GMs to be a lot more patient and optimistic.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Kypreos is saying the ask for Pacioretty is a 1st, 2nd, "warm body" roster player and a top prospect. This is how ridiculous it's going to be to get someone who can really help us. Sorry, but I wouldn't part with two high draft picks, Sprong and someone else for Patches. I hope JR isn't going to get caught in a massive overpayment somewhere....

Edit: This is why we haven't seen a lot of trades....

I do believe this is why we haven't seen many trades, but I don't think that is too ridiculous of an asking price for Pacioretty. It depends on what they mean by "top prospect", do they mean someone like Kapanen or Sprong or someone like Middlestadt? I think they might be asking for an extra 2nd, but I don't think their ask is that awful.

I think Ottawa is asking for a ridiculous price for guys like Pageau, but I don't think this ask is ridiculous for Pacioretty. If it's just a cap dump, a top prospect, a 1st and a 2nd, that's not horrid. Maybe they're asking for an extra 2nd, but it doesn't seem awful.

 

[Andy99]

I think Sakic finally getting his haul for Duchene (and also seeing Colorado turn around with no other moves) is encouraging other GMs to be a lot more patient and optimistic.

Exactly...coupled with the fact they have no urgency to move him now. They're not going anywhere near the POs. If they can't get a deal with overpayment for him now, then just wait until the offseason/draft....

 

[ColePens]

I think Sakic finally getting his haul for Duchene (and also seeing Colorado turn around with no other moves) is encouraging other GMs to be a lot more patient and optimistic.

Equally teams should look at Ottawa and be scared.

 

[enviSAGE]

It always seemed like Hornqvist was a perfect type of winger to fit with Geno though, I think that he was just say up to fail too much to get it to click in the past. Not to get too sophisticated, but perhaps the first two years by playing with Crosby most of the time molded his game to the crashing the net, balls-out type that Sid plays. And going from Sid's style to Geno's style from one game to the next was too quick of an adjustment for Horny to make. Maybe because Sid's game was what Horny thrived on before anyway in NSH.

But anyway I think by having him spend a good chunk of time with Bonino last year and playing him with a better third wheel fit of Hagelin instead of say a Kunitz or Wilson or a Comeau would enable the Hornqvist and Malkin engine to finally turn over. I think those two can stay running as long as they like too, as long as the Hagelin type of play is there to compliment them. I bet Simon could play nicely with them too.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Those are just the guys that aren't UFA to be's tho.
The holding out Sakic thing is understandable there unless they simply have to unload cash quickly.

McKenzie had a radio spot this morning and said a couple things:

-doesn't know definitively if Pleks will move but he sees the price being at most a 2nd for a team that really needs him.
-said the price for Kane is

“But the Kane and Rick Nash rentals will probably drive the rental market in terms of setting a price. And right now the Sabres are looking for three elements – a first-round pick, a player off the roster, a prospect. I think that might be overly-ambitious. Because as we’ve talked about before, if you look at what Martin Hanzal did or didn’t do for the Minnesota Wild and the owner coming out afterward and saying, ‘I wish we hadn’t done that Martin Hanzal deal,’ I think with things being as tight as they are and teams not even guaranteed a playoff spot – are they going to give up a first-round pick and a prospect for a player and then potentially miss the playoffs. People usually don’t pay rental prices to get yourself into the playoffs; you do it to push yourself over the top if you think you can win the Cup, and that’s the rationale for giving up as much as teams like the Rangers and Buffalo, the asking price for those guys.

McKenzie | Supply And Demand Factors May Impact NHL Trade Pricing

 

[Empoleon8771]

Honestly, I could see JR being interested if the cap could work out (which it almost definitely can't, but still).

 

[Rakell67]

Kypreos is saying the ask for Pacioretty is a 1st, 2nd, "warm body" roster player and a top prospect. This is how ridiculous it's going to be to get someone who can really help us. Sorry, but I wouldn't part with two high draft picks, Sprong and someone else for Patches. I hope JR isn't going to get caught in a massive overpayment somewhere....

Edit: This is why we haven't seen a lot of trades....

So if Cole returns a 2nd, would you deal Pens late 1st rounder, 2nd (Cole), Hagelin and Sprong for Pacioretty?
Essentially it would be turning 1.5 yrs of Hagelin into 1.5 yrs of Pacioretty, for a late 1st, Cole and Sprong. Gives them additional $1.6 cap room but will only count $500k more against the cap next year.
Trade Sheary and Gustavsson for Pague+?

Guentzel Crosby Simon
Pacioretty Malkin Hornqvist
Rust Pague Kessel
Kuhnhackl Sheahan Reaves
Rowney

 

[cheesedanish87]

I would love Nash here, i think he would thrive in a place where he wasn't expected to be the teams best player.

But i just don't see how it works caps wise, even if NYR retain half his salary that's still a 4 million dollar cap hit.

 

[Peat]

Equally teams should look at Ottawa and be scared.

Scared of making the payment Ottawa did? I think, judging from the lack of trade activity, they are.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Well 7.8M(Nash's hit) cut in half is 3.9.
It's doable if you trade away Cole for whatever and use Sheary in the Nash deal but i don't see JR trading Sheary for only 1 potential run with Nash.

I dunno if you can clear enough with just Cole+a Reaves or what have you waiving.
Lemme see...
Well i guess you could get to 4M in space with a Cole for picks trade + Reaves waived...

Nash is certainly a guy i'd be willing to pay a premium rental price for.

 

[DesertPenguin]

So if Cole returns a 2nd, would you deal Pens late 1st rounder, 2nd (Cole), Hagelin and Sprong for Pacioretty?
Essentially it would be turning 1.5 yrs of Hagelin into 1.5 yrs of Pacioretty, for a late 1st, Cole and Sprong. Gives them additional $1.6 cap room but will only count $500k more against the cap next year.
Trade Sheary and Gustavsson for Pague+?

Guentzel Crosby Simon
Pacioretty Malkin Hornqvist
Rust Pague Kessel
Kuhnhackl Sheahan Reaves
Rowney

Nope. I have yet to see a deal that involves Sprong going the other way that was worth it. Maybe 2nd(Cole), Hagelin and Sprong, but not all 4 pieces. A big part of the Pens winning the past couple seasons was because they had young, cheap talent filling out the roster: Sheary, Rust, Guentzel, Murray, Dumoulin, Cole, Bonino were all bargains. Some of them have already gotten new deals and they are coming for the rest, here or elsewhere. The Pens need to continue reloading with young cost controlled guys to remain competitive, and Sprong is the best talent we have. Simon has been a nice surprise but his ceiling is as a 3rd wheel on a scoring line. ZAR may have something, may not. Who is coming after them?

 

[WayneSid9987]

In the Cole trade get a 3rd.
Waive Reaves.
1st+conditional 2nd if we reach the Finals(3rd or 4th if we don't) + a prospect of NYR's choosing outside of Jarry, Sprong, Gus and maybe ZAR/Lauzon. Maybe 1st+conditonal 2nd+Bengtsson for Nash. :

I know the NYR probably aren't gonna deal with us but this lineup is doable.
If JR believes no C out there makes them better of course.

 

[chethejet]

Unless things change, Pens are dealing with many teams unwilling to give the Pens the goods to win a third cup. GMJR has to balance costs with the fact Sid and Geno are not on their last legs here. They have three years of quality play left. Secondly, the off season the Pens are in better position to make the deals that fill the holes in the roster. Because the cap is going up doesn't mean teams will spend wildly here. Pens can still be a good cup candidate with a modest move. But GMJR knows he has to bring in a quality third line center to take the load off Sid and Geno.

 

[ColePens]

Unless things change, Pens are dealing with many teams unwilling to give the Pens the goods to win a third cup. GMJR has to balance costs with the fact Sid and Geno are not on their last legs here. They have three years of quality play left. Secondly, the off season the Pens are in better position to make the deals that fill the holes in the roster. Because the cap is going up doesn't mean teams will spend wildly here. Pens can still be a good cup candidate with a modest move. But GMJR knows he has to bring in a quality third line center to take the load off Sid and Geno.

That's fine. And I understand it. It takes two to tango. But there are players in our organization and that could probably be had cheap that are bottom 6 speed/skill that we could technically get and be fine with. We wouldn't be Cup favorites, but it'd be better than playing all these pluggers.

As i've said all offseason and through today: As is - we are a playoff team, but most definitely not a Cup favorite. Fix the 3C and add a tiny bit of depth and we are Cup contenders. But if we are going to only play 3 lines and not have a great 3C, no way. Sure Geno/Sid/Kessel could go God mode, but that's throwing a hail mary. Not the route we should be going.

I'm just saying there are ways to better this team without having to break the bank. Heck some of them are already in the organization.

 

[BrokenStick]

If the main piece in a trade for Pageau were to be Gustavsson, that deal would have already been made.

They've got to be asking for way more than that.

 

[chethejet]

Sprong should be almost an untouchable. He has what the Pens value more than anything, star potential. So I am not trading him for a decent third line center. Picks perhaps and a goalie but not the guy who will be a first line big time scorer. Pens can address a reload for 2019 and beyond.

 

[Pancakes]

Maybe I'm crazy but I'd happily pay a first, second, and Sprong for Max Patches. Guy is an elite scorer. He also has another year left on his deal at an absolute bargain.

That's easily worth that type of price.