Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Man, Oh, Man, Oh, Friend of Mine. All Good Things in All Good Time

[Trade]

I hope you guys get Pageau, his talent is being wasted right now. A lot of folks here seem to think he's inconsistent, but that's only because you never get to see him play on a regular basis. He is all heart, key player during clutch moments and a hell of a PK'er. Great puck handling and possession, responsible and defensively minded. He's not having a great year, I'll give you that, but neither's the rest of the team... everyone's completely demoralized. Ottawa's become a toxic environment for hockey thanks to Uncle Euge and the whole team's going down thanks to that clown.

Anyways, I hope a trade gets done and you get Pageau. He's my favorite player and he deserves a good team.

Reading that made my mouth water.

I want somehow to get Ceci and Pageau. I'd easily trade Sheary, Jarry, Cole and our 1st and a more of needed. (Just spitballing)

I'm definitely wishful thinking, but Sheary is being spoonfed prime minutes playing RW for Sid. Hopefully he goes on a little streak to boost his value.

 

[WayneSid9987]

This is in the context of constructing a team. I’m not grabbing a player at the deadline so we can say we have sweet center depth again. I’m grabbing a player to help make us a quick possession monster again like 16.

Im taking Kane over a lot of the center options being thrown out there.

I certainly go after a LW beef up atm. It's prime time to solidify that position for this potential run plus.

JR just recently said theres nothing out there @ C that'll make them way better.
On one hand, it could be gamesmanship. He did say Sept/early Oct. that he had 3 or 4 trade options.
But i tend to take him at his word on this one cuz a Letestu doesn't do much for him 5on5, imo. A guy like Pleks @ 50% retained is still 3M bucks. I can easily see Ventura not liking Pageau all that much...

JR may simply be looking for that LW'er beef up and then shopping around for that C beef up again before the DL if theres something that really interests him that fits cap wise.
If he doesn't find that, he'll atleast have the LW beef up, that he'll likely want to continue into the 18-19 season whether they are under contract or not and then more options become available for the C beef up with a new set of UFA's and a Cap thats hopefully at 80 as they predict it will be.
All about re-tooling piece by piece.

ETA: Or you can flip that.
Maybe they zero in on a guy like Pageau and that piece is set and looks for a LW now/ and/or later.
I think the bottom line is he's looking for a significant piece.
Market atm tends to lean to him getting a LW beef up.

 

[Pens1566]

I think the 3C trade possibilities are really limited to one of Pleks or Pageau. Both have different pro/con arguments. One will leave you with more assets in play to swing an impact LW though.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I think the 3C trade possibilities are really limited to one of Pleks or Pageau. Both have different pro/con arguments. One will leave you with more assets in play to swing an impact LW though.

If i had to guess atm, JR looks heavy into the LW beef up OR Pageau.
He ends up with the LW'er, he then turns to a less expensive C(both their cap hit + cost to acquire) beef up that can win FO's/compliment the wingers. Maybe a Letestu. Maybe look into Dominic Moore. Those sorta guys.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think the 3C trade possibilities are really limited to one of Pleks or Pageau. Both have different pro/con arguments. One will leave you with more assets in play to swing an impact LW though.

I think it's more along the lines of...

Do you go after Pageau? Or Kane? You can't land both, to land both, JR would be giving up ridiculous assets that will incite this board to even worse levels.

If you go after Kane, then you have enough assets to get Plekanec and not make an ass out of yourself by forfeiting a ton of futures and then just miss the playoffs (a real possibility still). Or they go after Pageau, then go after a depth forward not in the Kane caliber.

With that said, I go after Kane, kick the tires on Plekanec.

Kane would help slot the LW situation a little better that will benefit the bottom 6 as well, it'd push players that shouldn't be on the 3rd line to another line. I think the biggest problem with the bottom 6 scoring is Sullivan is so focused on making the top 6 work that he's f***ed over the bottom 6 just to do it. So now he's put together 2 wingers with a C that don't work as a trio (yet) and then the 4th line now has a rookie C. I'm not sure who gets bumped, who gets moved to RW, etc.

Sheary & Rust can play both wings, which is a huge help. So can Simon.

 

[Pens1566]

If i had to guess atm, JR looks heavy into the LW beef up OR Pageau.
He ends up with the LW'er, he then turns to a less expensive C(both their cap hit + cost to acquire) beef up that can win FO's/compliment the wingers. Maybe a Letestu. Maybe look into Dominic Moore. Those sorta guys.

I agree with your first sentence. I just don't see him moving the pieces that would be required to bring back a good LW and Pageau. 2nd part is where I disagree. I don't think you can bring in someone like Test tube or Moore and have it be an "upgrade". Then its just moving pieces to move pieces. Test tube won't do hardly anything without PP time, and Moore is ... meh. I think if he's going for an upgrade at 3C that won't break the bank (trade or cap), it screams Pleks. He'd get an immediate upgrade in wingers and checks all the other boxes (defensively capable, FOs, etc). Another, less likely, route would be to re-acquire Cullen and roll 3A/3B.

Any of those is better than what we currently have. Just depends on who the LW is and how much is left over afterwards.

 

[Pens1566]

I think it's more along the lines of...

Do you go after Pageau? Or Kane?

If you go after Kane, then you have enough assets to get Plekanec and not make an ass out of yourself by forfeiting a ton of futures and then just miss the playoffs (a real possibility still). Or they go after Pageau, then go after a depth forward not in the Kane caliber.

I think we're saying the same things.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think we're saying the same things.

Yeah my bad.

I was just expanding on it then I guess. I was thinking, to land Pageau, Dorion would for sure want someone like Sprong and a 1st, but both the Sabres and Senators would covet Jarry, most definitely. Neither team has an heir apparent in net. To land Kane and Pageau, we would likely lose Jarry and Sprong, I know people are like "Who cares, we'd win a 3rd cup!" which is cool and that is the goal for the team, sure, but it wouldn't fix the underlying issues that have started to marinate last season and are in full display this season. I couldn't stomach losing a game breaker goalie and a potential Kessel type winger in Sprong.

 

[JackFr]

Ceci is bad, I don't want him at all, especially at his perceived value.

I wouldn't give up Sprong or Jarry for Pageau or any rental - they're our prime assets going forward, giving up either of them for anything but a big piece is a mistake.

 

[Pancakes]

Ceci is bad, I don't want him at all, especially at his perceived value.

I wouldn't give up Sprong or Jarry for Pageau or any rental - they're our prime assets going forward, giving up either of them for anything but a big piece is a mistake.

I'd include the first round pick in that too tbh. I don't like the idea of trading it for a rental unless that rental is exceptional (like Evander Kane for example).

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'd include the first round pick in that too tbh. I don't like the idea of trading it for a rental unless that rental is exceptional (like Evander Kane for example).

The 1st I am ok losing for Kane, but I don't want to lose Sprong or Jarry.

 

[Pancakes]

The 1st I am ok losing for Kane, but I don't want to lose Sprong or Jarry.

I have a feeling EK would cost one of them plus the pick.

 

[mpp9]

I have a feeling EK would cost one of them plus the pick.

Hell no. No rental has brought back an NHL ready scoring winger with pedigree in recent memory.

For Pacioretty? I could see Sprong being available because Patches is less of a risk in terms of personality/room dynamic and has another year on his deal for 4.5 mil. He might be the only guy available Id be ok moving Sprong for because he has the potential to be every bit productive as Kessel for signifantly less money.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I agree with your first sentence. I just don't see him moving the pieces that would be required to bring back a good LW and Pageau. 2nd part is where I disagree. I don't think you can bring in someone like Test tube or Moore and have it be an "upgrade". Then its just moving pieces to move pieces. Test tube won't do hardly anything without PP time, and Moore is ... meh. I think if he's going for an upgrade at 3C that won't break the bank (trade or cap), it screams Pleks. He'd get an immediate upgrade in wingers and checks all the other boxes (defensively capable, FOs, etc). Another, less likely, route would be to re-acquire Cullen and roll 3A/3B.

Any of those is better than what we currently have. Just depends on who the LW is and how much is left over afterwards.

Think the obstacle to a Patches or Galchenyuk type plus Pleks is Pleks' 3M after 50% retained. Thats why i think he aims lower on the C pole. Maybe i'm wrong tho on the $ cuz Sheary likely goes in the LW deal. Cole probably goes for picks.

Just as an example: Trade a 1st+Sheary, etc for Patches(4.5M). Cole for picks.

That leaves(sample roster):

Jake-Sid-Simon
Patches-G-Horny
Hags-Sheahan-Phil
Kuhn-Rowney-Rust
Reaves

Dumo-Tang
Maatta-Schultz
Oleksiak-Ruh
Hunwick

Murray
Jarry

='s 1.516979M in space

Now getting a Kane @ 50% retained(using Sheary). Trading Cole for picks leaves something like:

Kane-Sid-Simon
Hags-G-Horny
Jake-Sheahan-Phil
Kuhn-Rowney-Rust
Reaves

Dumo-Tang
Maatta-Schultz
Oleksiak-Ruh
Hunwick

Murray
Jarry

='s 3,391979M

Now you could go for Pageau maybe if you used a 2nd + Sheary in the deal for Kane or Pleks i suppose.

I really dunno how "Deadline Cap Space" works.
Like if JR did the Patches scenario above ^, does he have enough cap space to bring in Pleks at 50% retained or not?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

RE: Kane, I wouldn't do Sprong + 1st for him, I would definitely never do that package for Pageau either.

Hell no. No rental has brought back an NHL ready scoring winger with pedigree in recent memory.

For Pacioretty? I could see Sprong being available because Patches is less of a risk in terms of personality/room dynamic and has another year on his deal for 4.5 mil. He might be the only guy available Id be ok moving Sprong for because he has the potential to be every bit productive as Kessel for signifantly less money.

I love Patches, so I am 100% on board with that. Haters be damned, Patches would be phenomenal on this team.

Not only that, we could probably work out a deal with the Habs to land Plekanec for a depth C as well for not so much and retained salary.


Pacioretty + Plekanec (50% retained).

 

[WayneSid9987]

RE: Kane, I wouldn't do Sprong + 1st for him, I would definitely never do that package for Pageau either.




I love Patches, so I am 100% on board with that. Haters be damned, Patches would be phenomenal on this team.

Not only that, we could probably work out a deal with the Habs to land Plekanec for a depth C as well for not so much and retained salary.


Pacioretty + Plekanec (50% retained).

See thats what i'm trying to solve tho.
Would Cole gone for picks + Sheary used in the Patches deal fit cap wise as i posted above.

Patches would be expensive BUT i'm waivering back and forth between who i prefer between him and Kane. Patches has the edge atm...

 

[Honour Over Glory]

See thats what i'm trying to solve tho.
Would Cole gone for picks + Sheary used in the Patches deal fit cap wise as i posted above.

Patches would be expensive BUT i'm waivering back and forth between who i prefer between him and Kane. Patches has the edge atm...

Kane is a tool, as in, with the right C, he's going to score because it takes a solid playmaker to make him even more potent, Patches is a guy that can score 30 goals and will elevate his line, multi faceted. I think around this time, Patches' cap hit is around what, 2.5m-ish? We can move Cole and then waive or move Rowney and that should be enough for the rest of the season. But next year, yeah they'd need to move someone to fit under the cap.

Unless I am getting this wrong with the cap.

According to CapGeek, he's either a 1.7m cap hit right now or a 2.7m cap hit, I am way too tired to make sense of it.

 

[Pancakes]

Hell no. No rental has brought back an NHL ready scoring winger with pedigree in recent memory.

For Pacioretty? I could see Sprong being available because Patches is less of a risk in terms of personality/room dynamic and has another year on his deal for 4.5 mil. He might be the only guy available Id be ok moving Sprong for because he has the potential to be every bit productive as Kessel for signifantly less money.

What pedigree? He's a second round pick who has like three goals at the NHL. We love him as a prospect but his value is likely nowhere near what we'd like it to be.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Kane is a tool, as in, with the right C, he's going to score because it takes a solid playmaker to make him even more potent, Patches is a guy that can score 30 goals and will elevate his line, multi faceted. I think around this time, Patches' cap hit is around what, 2.5m-ish? We can move Cole and then waive or move Rowney and that should be enough for the rest of the season. But next year, yeah they'd need to move someone to fit under the cap.

Unless I am getting this wrong with the cap.

According to CapGeek, he's either a 1.7m cap hit right now or a 2.7m cap hit, I am way too tired to make sense of it.

It doesn’t fit right now. I think you might be using Cole and Rowneys full AAV compared to what Patches is at right now.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It doesn’t fit right now. I think you might be using Cole and Rowneys full AAV compared to what Patches is at right now.

Cole is around 886k and Rowney much less.

Our "Deadline Cap space" is 2.2m not including those two. I think he fits.

 

[mpp9]

What pedigree? He's a second round pick who has like three goals at the NHL. We love him as a prospect but his value is likely nowhere near what we'd like it to be.

He has 18 goals in 30 games in the A. He’s three behind the league lead with 8 fewer games played.

I’m not calling him McJesus. But Id say that qualifies as having some pedigree as a guy adjusting to pro hockey.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Kane is interesting because it leaves open the possibility of Sheahan staying as the 3C if you bring in Kane. I said this a while back, you either need to bring in the right wingers to have Sheahan to be the right 3C or the right 3C. If you brought in Kane and put him on the 3rd line, Sheahan as the 3C is perfectly fine. A Kane-Sheahan-Hornqvist line would be incredibly effective, which leaves Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel and Guentzel-Crosby-Simon as your 2nd and 1st lines. You'd still need to add another center, but it might be easier to bring in Kane and a good 4C than it is to bring in a good 3C. You know Buffalo is trading Kane and you know that say Edmonton is trading Letestu. You don't know if Ottawa is going to trade Pageau or Brassard.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Cole is around 886k and Rowney much less.

Our "Deadline Cap space" is 2.2m not including those two. I think he fits.

I used the armchair GM tool on cap friendly and he didn’t fit. Included sending down Kuhn and we were down about a million

 

[Ryder71]

Kane is interesting because it leaves open the possibility of Sheahan staying as the 3C if you bring in Kane. I said this a while back, you either need to bring in the right wingers to have Sheahan to be the right 3C or the right 3C. If you brought in Kane and put him on the 3rd line, Sheahan as the 3C is perfectly fine. A Kane-Sheahan-Hornqvist line would be incredibly effective

And how exactly can you conclusively say that line would be ''incredibly effective''? Based on what exactly?

If we don't upgrade our center core, we're screwed. And there's a reason why a 3C is harder to come by than a top six winger. That however doesn't mean you take the easier path and try to dress up your wings and leave your centers as is. You do all you can to accentuate your advantage at center and not mitigate it and hope adding good wingers will offset the void. It doesn't work that way.

 

[Empoleon8771]

And how exactly can you conclusively say that line would be ''incredibly effective''? Based on what exactly?

Because:

A. Kane and Hornqvist are both extremely good players.
B. Kane and Hornqvist are the kind of wingers that mask Sheahan's weaknesses extremely well and complement his style of game.

What's your evidence that they wouldn't be incredibly effective together? Sheary-Sheahan-Hornqvist worked really well earlier in the year, Kane in Sheary's spot is that original line on massive steroids.