Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Insert Witty Thread Title Here

[Shady Machine]

I agree with you on Pouliot, but I disagree with you on Sheahan. I think Sheahan would bring everything Bonino brought, but with a worse offensive ability. I think you'd have a 10 or so point drop from Bonino to Sheahan (although Sheahan is still young and he's had good offensive seasons before, so who knows), but I think Sheahan would be able to replace Bonino defensively, on the PK, at faceoffs and with possession stats.

Sure, but I think we need as good as Bonino or better with Cullen moving on. I suppose that will depend on how good Blueger can be this year.

I can get behind a Sheahan-Blueger bottom 6 if both are 30ish points.

My disagreement with your view boils down to having higher expectations for what we need from the depth center positions. Every other argument comes out from that differing viewpoint.

 

[Andy99]

I agree with you on Pouliot, but I disagree with you on Sheahan. I think Sheahan would bring everything Bonino brought, but with a worse offensive ability. I think you'd have a 10 or so point drop from Bonino to Sheahan (although Sheahan is still young and he's had good offensive seasons before, so who knows), but I think Sheahan would be able to replace Bonino defensively, on the PK, at faceoffs and with possession stats.

The article for anyone who didn't read it:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...ed-wings-nhl-2017-season/stories/201709130143

He better play at 4C. We don't need a worse offensive player than Bonino on the third line. We need someone who can get Phil the puck because that line is where Phil should be playing....

 

[Speaking Moistly]

If Blueger looks great in the preseason then I'll be a lot more okay with Sheahan.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He better play at 4C. We don't need a worse offensive player than Bonino on the third line. We need someone who can get Phil the puck because that line is where Phil should be playing....

Who said Sheahan isn't good enough offensively to get Kessel the puck?

 

[Corvidae]

Some major break pumping on Blueger needs to happen.

 

[Shady Machine]

Some major break pumping on Blueger needs to happen.

I agree. I'm interested to see how he looks in NHL pre season games before getting all that excited about him this season.

 

[Peat]

Sheahan's ES offensive stats from good seasons (i.e. not that flustercluck last season) are pretty close to what Bonino offered last season. PP may or may not be in new 3C's job description anyway. I am going solely by stat watching here but Sheahan does fit the minimum requirements and has a history which suggests he could be more. I'd not be overjoyed to see him but would not be dismayed either. Don't know how quick/how much of a playmaker he's meant to be.

I am unsure whether Mackey is right to suggest Detroit want dmen though, they've got 9 on the roster according to CF. And only 12 forwards. I'd have thought giving a cheap wing and/or pick back would be more useful to everyone.

 

[Shady Machine]

Sheahan's ES offensive stats from good seasons (i.e. not that flustercluck last season) are pretty close to what Bonino offered last season. PP may or may not be in new 3C's job description anyway. I am going solely by stat watching here but Sheahan does fit the minimum requirements and has a history which suggests he could be more. I'd not be overjoyed to see him but would not be dismayed either. Don't know how quick/how much of a playmaker he's meant to be.

I am unsure whether Mackey is right to suggest Detroit want dmen though, they've got 9 on the roster according to CF. And only 12 forwards. I'd have thought giving a cheap wing and/or pick back would be more useful to everyone.

Here's the issue I have. A large group of posters here were *****ing about Bonino's season all year long and part of that was why they didn't want to extend him. Now those same posters might be okay trading for a guy whose best seasons are on par with Bonino's worst season. I get he's cheaper, but that still seems odd to me.

I want a player who has the potential to be better than Bonino and soon. At 25 years old, with the years he has under his belt, I believe Sheahan is unlikely to get materially better offensively. He's a 25-30 point center if he rebounds.

 

[Riptide]

I also completely disagree with the idea that the difference between Maatta and Hainsey is small enough for the upgrade from Sheahan to Duchene. I'd rather have Sheahan and Maatta.

I'd take Duchene and Hainsey over Sheahan and Maatta every single day of the week. The upgrade from MD over RS is absolutely massive. The downgrade from Maatta to a Hainsey type is significantly less than the difference between RS and MD.

I guess I am not as high on a Duchene trade as most, because I would not pay that price (Maatta, Sheary AND a 1st) for Duchene. I love Matt Duchene as a player, but I love him more as a right-winger than a center to be honest. Plus, it's a two-year rental because I seriously doubt we are keeping him beyond that (unless we move him to wing).

There's little point in trading for him if he's going to get played as a RW vs C. His high price league wide is due to him being a center, and if we're not going to primarily use him as that, there's not much point in paying the premium to acquire him.

Which always brings me back to my main point: the player to trade in order to land a quality No. 3 center is Patric Hornqvist.

If we have to part with a defenseman, my preference would be to deal Hunwick.

If we are talking about the most expendable assets, for me they are Hornqvist and Hunwick.

The issue with that is that Hornqvist A) doesn't have that sort of value - unless you're talking about a lower end guy (and then there's likely issues with his term), and B) is kind of someone we really need/want if not going forward, then at least for this season. His POs last year might not have been great, but we certainly needed him (GM6 aside), and will likely continue needing him going forward. And lets not forget his contributions in 15/16.

The same goes for Hunwick. Not to mention that we will almost certainly be losing Cole next summer... do we really want to lose Hunwick as well? I know Pixy said that these guys are a dime a dozen every summer... but I don't think that's quite the case, and even if it is, that we'll be getting a replacement any cheaper.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Who said Sheahan isn't good enough offensively to get Kessel the puck?

Well, he has a grand total of 22 assists in his last 161 games.

Ian Cole had 21 last year.

 

[pistolpete11]

I would be OK with Sheahan. A little nervous about his production, but that entire team has been sliding for years. Their top guys were able to (barely) keep their playoff streak alive in Blashill's first year, but it finally bottomed out last year without Dats.

But he was a 40 point/82 game player under Babcock and he's still very young. I think an offensive rebound on the Penguins is reasonable. I'd rather give up a pick than Pouliot, but I wouldn't say no if they insisted on Pouliot.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think people are more okay with trading for Sheahan than they were with bringing back Bonino because:

A. His cap hit is half as high as Bonino's new cap hit and he's younger
B. Sheahan looks like he's more consistent offensively than Bonino was in Pittsburgh, at least based on his game logs from 2013-2016.
C. Bonino put up those numbers while playing a lot with Kessel here, while Sheahan put up those numbers with mainly Nyquist and/or Tatar (he didn't play with those guys last year I think). If Sheahan can get 25 ES points per 82 games with Nyquist as his main winger, why couldn't he get close to 30 with Kessel? If he'd hit between 25 and 30 ES points with say 5 PP and SH points combined, that's only a couple points less than what Bonino did in Pittsburgh.

Well, he has a grand total of 22 assists in his last 161 games.

Ian Cole had 21 last year.

Nick Bonino only had 19 assists last year, I guess Ian Cole can get the puck better to Kessel than he can as well.

 

[Riptide]

I will repeat my criticism of JR if Sheahan is the guy he gets. Major ugh.

Also, I know it's just Mackey's opinion, but I will be very disappointed if Pouliot is moved for Sheahan. Give them a 3rd or 4th over Pouliot.

Personally I'd be indifferent. I think Sheahan would be a meh acquisition as a #3C, but if the price is right, then sure w/e. The kid is youngish (2 yrs till FA) and could be half decent I suppose. And honestly, I do not think highly enough of Pouliot to be upset at losing him for a #3C - even a low end one.

Sure, but I think we need as good as Bonino or better with Cullen moving on. I suppose that will depend on how good Blueger can be this year.

I can get behind a Sheahan-Blueger bottom 6 if both are 30ish points.

My disagreement with your view boils down to having higher expectations for what we need from the depth center positions. Every other argument comes out from that differing viewpoint.

That would be ideal obviously, but addressing the #4C can be done at the deadline, and usually fairly cheaply. Re-acquire Fehr. Or go out and get one of half a dozen career #4Cs that are typically available every spring.

 

[Tender Rip]

Here's the issue I have.
.....
I want a player who has the potential to be better than Bonino and soon.

This is your actual issue.



Warts and all, Bonino is a very good 3C league wide. Good enough that he just got himself a fat, long 4 million per year contract in free agency. You want someone who is likely to be better - and soon. While we have the best 1-2 punch at center in the league, wicked winger depth and a high end D (at least top 10 in the league) and one of the very best goalies.

Its a bit spoiled is all .

I'm with you in terms of finding the notion of a "better than Bonino 3C" very desirable.... but if we want to be strong and have depth everywhere else too, this requires getting lucky on someone outproducing his cap-hit. Sheahan could be a candidate. I'd rather a William Karlsson, but I understand why people could get their hopes up with Sheahan. Also simply because he seems accessible and cheap to acquire more so than most any other options.

 

[Peat]

Here's the issue I have. A large group of posters here were *****ing about Bonino's season all year long and part of that was why they didn't want to extend him. Now those same posters might be okay trading for a guy whose best seasons are on par with Bonino's worst season. I get he's cheaper, but that still seems odd to me.

I want a player who has the potential to be better than Bonino and soon. At 25 years old, with the years he has under his belt, I believe Sheahan is unlikely to get materially better offensively. He's a 25-30 point center if he rebounds.

Bonino pissed me off royally at times and I feel the need to be quite sharp with the idea he was always a premium 3C for us, but ultimately I feel we can be successful with 2017 PO Bonino and I am okay with getting that if there is minimal roster disruption. I'd prefer better but can live with giving continuation a try.

He's also only 2 years removed from a 36 point season. Is it really that unrealistic to believe a 25 year old can be the player they were at 23?

 

[Shady Machine]

This is your actual issue.



Warts and all, Bonino is a very good 3C league wide. Good enough that he just got himself a fat, long 4 million per year contract in free agency. You want someone who is likely to be better - and soon. While we have the best 1-2 punch at center in the league, wicked winger depth and a high end D (at least top 10 in the league) and one of the very best goalies.

Its a bit spoiled is all .

I'm with you in terms of finding the notion of a "better than Bonino 3C" very desirable.... but if we want to be strong and have depth everywhere else too, this requires getting lucky on someone outproducing his cap-hit. Sheahan could be a candidate. I'd rather a William Karlsson, but I understand why people could get their hopes up with Sheahan. Also simply because he seems accessible and cheap to acquire more so than most any other options.

I am definitely a little spoiled. That's why I continue to have high expectations because of how much I love the rest of the roster.

I'd take W. Karlsson over Sheahan. I'd take Haula, obviously, over Sheahan. Frankly, I just don't like Sheahan. If JR gets him, I will complain for a while and then hope he proves me wrong.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I can't speak about last season, but I watched Sheahan play his first couple years in the league and really liked him. He scored a lot of his goals right in front of the net... tips, banging in rebounds and using his big body to shield defenders. He's very good at screening goalies ala Hornqvist with his big frame.

He also had nice hands and I've seen him do some sick dangles. He even scored a goal doing the Stevie Y move and turned a few defenders inside out.

He's a big guy with skill. He could definitely use his size more, but Bones wasn't exactly a bruiser either.

I'm just shocked he's fallen like this because two years ago I was jealous the Wings drafted him and wished the Pens had a big, talented and young pivot like that.

 

[The Old Master]

I am definitely a little spoiled. That's why I continue to have high expectations because of how much I love the rest of the roster.

I'd take W. Karlsson over Sheahan. I'd take Haula, obviously, over Sheahan. Frankly, I just don't like Sheahan. If JR gets him, I will complain for a while and then hope he proves me wrong.

the stars have two guys fighting for the 3rd spot....you might be able to get the guy who loses. there are still a lot of good choices still out there.

 

[Giant Yankee Pens]

Any scouting report on the skating of the below 5 players? Ranking from greatest to least?

Faksa
W. Karlsson
Sheahan
Lindberg
Eakin

Simply in terms of skating ability/speed.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I can't speak about last season, but I watched Sheahan play his first couple years in the league and really liked him. He scored a lot of his goals right in front of the net... tips, banging in rebounds and using his big body to shield defenders. He's very good at screening goalies ala Hornqvist with his big frame.

He also had nice hands and I've seen him do some sick dangles. He even scored a goal doing the Stevie Y move and turned a few defenders inside out.

He's a big guy with skill. He could definitely use his size more, but Bones wasn't exactly a bruiser either.

I'm just shocked he's fallen like this because two years ago I was jealous the Wings drafted him and wished the Pens had a big, talented and young pivot like that.

That's just what happens when you're playing on a collapsing organization under an incompetent coach. All of Nyquist, Tatar, Adbelkader, Sheahan, Mrazek and DeKeyser (aka their entire prime aged group) have been significantly worse since Babcock left. Nyquist and Tatar looked like they were on the way to being consistent 30-30 players in Babcock's last season, neither of them have even hit 50 points in each of the last 2 seasons. Abdelkader went from putting up a 50 point pace in Babcock's last season to not even having a 40 point pace in the last 2 years. Same kind of production dip came with Sheahan. Mrazek was at a .920 save% before Babcock left, has been at a .910 save% since. DeKeyser changed from looking like a promising top-4 D with top pair upside to only putting up 32 points in the next 2 years combined (put up 31 in Babcock's last season) while being a -20. Their entire prime aged group (or the young group when Babcock was still there) has had massive regressions under Blashill. Sheahan has just had the sharpest decline.

Any scouting report on the skating of the below 5 players? Ranking from greatest to least?

Faksa
W. Karlsson
Sheahan
Lindberg
Eakin

Simply in terms of skating ability/speed.

Eakin is a legitimately good skater, clearly the best skater of that group. Karlssson is quick. Faksa and Lindberg aren't bad skaters, probably around average. Sheahan is probably about the same as Bonino.

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

I can't speak about last season, but I watched Sheahan play his first couple years in the league and really liked him. He scored a lot of his goals right in front of the net... tips, banging in rebounds and using his big body to shield defenders. He's very good at screening goalies ala Hornqvist with his big frame.

He also had nice hands and I've seen him do some sick dangles. He even scored a goal doing the Stevie Y move and turned a few defenders inside out.

He's a big guy with skill. He could definitely use his size more, but Bones wasn't exactly a bruiser either.

I'm just shocked he's fallen like this because two years ago I was jealous the Wings drafted him and wished the Pens had a big, talented and young pivot like that.

He's only 25 and that Wings team wasn't very good. It's a team in transition and I think losing Babcock killed some of his development. I think Sully and Recchi could get him back to form.

I think he makes sense and should be a buy low candidate.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

How's Sheahan's skating?

 

[Riptide]

Here's the issue I have. A large group of posters here were *****ing about Bonino's season all year long and part of that was why they didn't want to extend him. Now those same posters might be okay trading for a guy whose best seasons are on par with Bonino's worst season. I get he's cheaper, but that still seems odd to me.

I want a player who has the potential to be better than Bonino and soon. At 25 years old, with the years he has under his belt, I believe Sheahan is unlikely to get materially better offensively. He's a 25-30 point center if he rebounds.

I imagine his expected contract also played a large part in that. I mean we probably should have run a poll on how many would have extended him at 2m. I suspect most would have.

I doubt Sheahan will ever be better than Bonino. But (last season aside), would he really be that much worse? And honestly, given some of the #3Cs we've had... I suspect that we'll be complaining about whomever we get.

And while the concern about the downgrade at #4C is legitimate, I think that's something that can easily be rectified later on - to the point that I'm not worried about it in the least right now.

How's Sheahan's skating?

My first thought on it is "slightly better than Bonino's". He's not Hagelin or Rust, but overall it's not an issue.

 

[Corvidae]

I agree. I'm interested to see how he looks in NHL pre season games before getting all that excited about him this season.

As an addendum to that, he certainly looks promising and fits the bottom 6 C mold, but with only one AHL shortened season under his belt, it's pretty crazy to be penciling him in for regular NHL center duties. Best case scenario, I think, is a Guentzel situation where he looks some good in WBS that they have to bring him up to fill a gap. More likely he stays there most of the year unless injuries force their hand to give him or Johnson a long-term shot (which 100% will happen) unless they pull a trade. He's at least as likely to be Sundqvist 2.0 as Bonino's replacement at this point in his career. It's not a knock on him, just pointing out the relatively small sample size for a player that wasn't too high on most people's radar until this summer (at age 23). He is not a Sprong/Guentzel-level prospect and C is much harder than W to make the jump to.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

...



My first thought on it is "slightly better than Bonino's". He's not Hagelin or Rust, but overall it's not an issue.

That doesn't sound bad, for his size.