Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building: Does it even Maatta? The defense is still absolute Jack.

[pokey10]

Having to trade our first to get rid of JJ would be a disaster.

But JJ is such a disaster that you might not be far off on what it would cost to be rid of him.

I still hold steadfast that if you can move a 2015 version of Scuderi straight up, then you can do the same for JJ. Surprising enough, there are teams with worse defenses that are icing fringe AHL'ers as their 3rd pairings. ( Not to say that JJ played as such at times ) .

 

[Empoleon8771]

Assuming they would have to trade Rust for Cap reasons....I can see Tocchet/Coyotes wanting him.

Our first/Rust for their first...

The Coyotes don't really have the cap space to do that, especially with the rumors of Marleau going to Arizona. I do think you can do that with Colorado, but I don't think trading up from 21 to 16 is worth also giving up Rust.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Speaking for myself, I don't think Zucker's a talentless grinder, I just don't think he's worth moving Kessel.

He's absolutely worth moving a 32 year old, temperamental winger that makes his linemates worse at ES by refusing to play away from the puck though. That's Phil Kessel.

 

[Andy99]

I mean we could waive JJ, send him to the A and get about $1.2 or $1.3 mil in savings off the cap from him, right? If the cap turns out $1 mil less than we expected, that's an option...Riikola would have to play well...

 

[TimmyD]

Hmm...

I'd want to place the coaches under an Ancient Celtic style geas to treat Johnson like that before feeling comfortable with that. Like, the sort where it's guaranteed your hand will wither if you break it, and the very next day an angry naked man with boundary issues will cut your head off and use it as a pillow style geas.

And even then... you've still got a bunch of gambles on the blue line. I'm okay with taking the gambles to start the season, but I want to know how I weasel out of them if they go wrong. And if you've found the Ehlers cap room from the forwards, and have spent your best futures on him, there's not a lot of wriggle room there...



There's a lot of optimism there; I dunno if Kessel moves, I feel pretty sure Ottawa want more than that for a cap dump, and no guarantees Horny would move (and that's an ugly return if he does). Also, we have no natural RWs in the entire top... 12 actually, and that seems a little excessive. Bjugstad is closest, but not entirely sure how comfy he is there.

Kahun prefers RW, Ehlers I could have sworn was a natural RW that can play LW as well, Bjugstad is pretty comfy there and put up solid numbers playing wing in Florida. I don’t love Jarnkrok as a return for Horny if he would waive to go back to Nashville, but that move is more about the cap savings since Jarnkrok only makes $2 million

 

[pokey10]

The Coyotes don't really have the cap space to do that, especially with the rumors of Marleau going to Arizona. I do think you can do that with Colorado, but I don't think trading up from 21 to 16 is worth also giving up Rust.

Im sorry, but I dont see why Marleau would want to waive his NMC to be taken out to pasture when he still has his sights to not be an OGWAC.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Yeah, if it's like $81.7 million, you have to trade Rust for cap space and hope someone like Adam Johnson can replace him. I don't know how else you can get below the cap at that level that doesn't involve trading a player you can't comfortably trade..

I suppose that might put a JJ buy-out back on the table, the period doesn't end until 6/30.

And I agree that it's not entirely unlikely that JJ ends up the year as your #7. Riikola and Guds, on paper, are a much better fit. JR even said yesterday something to the effect that he expects Pets to move up the depth chart next year. There's only one spot up to go, and I can see JJ dropping from the 2nd pair to the bench if the coaches can get comfortable with Guds/Riikola.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I mean we could waive JJ, send him to the A and get about $1.2 or $1.3 mil in savings off the cap from him, right? If the cap turns out $1 mil less than we expected, that's an option...Riikola would have to play well...

It’s minimum salary plus 375k. I think the league minimum is 700k

 

[pokey10]

I mean we could waive JJ, send him to the A and get about $1.2 or $1.3 mil in savings off the cap from him, right? If the cap turns out $1 mil less than we expected, that's an option...Riikola would have to play well...

The trade off then is moot if you carry dead cap.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Im sorry, but I dont see why Marleau would want to waive his NMC to be taken out to pasture when he still has his sights to not be an OGWAC.

His family is moving back to San Jose. He’s asked to be traded to a team close by.

 

[pokey10]

I suppose that might put a JJ buy-out back on the table, the period doesn't end until 6/30.

And I agree that it's not entirely unlikely that JJ ends up the year as your #7. Riikola and Guds, on paper, are a much better fit. JR even said yesterday something to the effect that he expects Pets to move up the depth chart next year. There's only one spot up to go, and I can see JJ dropping from the 2nd pair to the bench if the coaches can get comfortable with Guds/Riikola.

f***, I'd slot Chad in rotation with Riikola and run that till the deadline.

 

[pokey10]

His family is moving back to San Jose. He’s asked to be traded to a team close by.

Changes things a bit then lol. I guess there are bigger things than hockey when you have a family.

 

[Pancakes]

I still hold steadfast that if you can move a 2015 version of Scuderi straight up, then you can do the same for JJ. Surprising enough, there are teams with worse defenses that are icing fringe AHL'ers as their 3rd pairings. ( Not to say that JJ played as such at times ) .

Feel like it's a different situation though because iirc Scuds was a UFA. The problem with JJ is he's a double whammy. He's both awful and signed to multiple years.

I think if JR moves him without giving up a first or valuable prospect to do so he will probably have to both eat salary and give up a mid round pick. If he doesn't want to eat salary, he'll have to give up a major asset or assets.

 

[Beauner]

You're not trading Johnson without taking salary back.

Unless you're dealing with a team that needs salary to hit the cap floor

 

[Lust for Life]

I hope GMJR is aggressive in trade talks for Ehlers.

I wonder if Schultz has Winnipeg on his no-trade list, because he's a guy I would float in trade talks to them otherwise. Yeah, trading Schultz for Ehlers will make a bad D corps even worse, but acquiring a 23-year old 60-point guy who is signed long term... it could be worth the sacrifice, especielly with the absence of young high-quality offensive forwards in the organization. And who knows if Schultz is here in a year anyway.

Plus, it opens up a spot in the top-six for JJ

 

[Peat]

I still hold steadfast that if you can move a 2015 version of Scuderi straight up, then you can do the same for JJ. Surprising enough, there are teams with worse defenses that are icing fringe AHL'ers as their 3rd pairings. ( Not to say that JJ played as such at times ) .

Moving Scuderi required him to have no term left and taking back a more expensive player with term.

Translate the same principles to Johnson and you're basically taking back Lucic to get it done.

Now, sure, there's other ways to skin the cat... but unless we're lucky with another team's valuation of Johnson, none of them pleasant.

Tbh, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense to me that the plan will be to keep him with the hope that he plays better and the expectation that Riikola gets game time if he doesn't. I don't like it, but it's beginning to sound likely.

Kahun prefers RW, Ehlers I could have sworn was a natural RW that can play LW as well, Bjugstad is pretty comfy there and put up solid numbers playing wing in Florida. I don’t love Jarnkrok as a return for Horny if he would waive to go back to Nashville, but that move is more about the cap savings since Jarnkrok only makes $2 million

I should have said RH shot RWs. Bjugstad certainly didn't look comfy there last season, although here's hoping that's a blip.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I suppose that might put a JJ buy-out back on the table, the period doesn't end until 6/30.

And I agree that it's not entirely unlikely that JJ ends up the year as your #7. Riikola and Guds, on paper, are a much better fit. JR even said yesterday something to the effect that he expects Pets to move up the depth chart next year. There's only one spot up to go, and I can see JJ dropping from the 2nd pair to the bench if the coaches can get comfortable with Guds/Riikola.

Honestly, I think this is the most likely scenario as of right now. My guess for their plan with keeping JJ is something like:

1. Start the year with the same D pairs and same usage you ended the playoffs with last year. Johnson will be getting 15-16 minutes a night, Gudbranson will be getting 17-19 minutes a night, Schultz and Pettersson will be getting 19-21 minutes a night and Dumoulin-Letang will be getting their normal ice time. You'll see Pettersson-Schultz pretty often, I think close games will result in a shortened bench with that being the 2nd pair.
2. See how Johnson, Riikola, Gudbranson and Pettersson look as injuries happen. If Johnson continues to suck and Riikola looks good, I think Riikola jumps JJ in the depth chart. If Johnson manages to not suck somehow, I think you may start seeing him get back to around 18 minutes a night.
3. Only trade for a defensemen if Riikola busts, Johnson sucks and/or Pettersson can't handle a top-4 D role.

Unless you're dealing with a team that needs salary to hit the cap floor

Johnson's contract is so long that I don't think any team would want to take him to hit the cap floor. Why do that when you can take Callahan as a 1 year cap dump?

 

[HandshakeLine]

In what world is trading our first to get rid of JJ preferable to just buying him out?

 

[Gurglesons]

In what world is trading our first to get rid of JJ preferable to just buying him out?

In a world where Pittsburgh doesn’t buy players out.

 

[pokey10]

I hope GMJR is aggressive in trade talks for Ehlers.

I wonder if Schultz has Winnipeg on his no-trade list, because he's a guy I would float in trade talks to them otherwise. Yeah, trading Schultz for Ehlers will make a bad D corps even worse, but acquiring a 23-year old 60-point guy who is signed long term... it could be worth the sacrifice, especielly with the absence of young high-quality offensive forwards in the organization. And who knows if Schultz is here in a year anyway.

Plus, it opens up a spot in the top-six for JJ

I dont like top heavy. We would look like an older version of the leafs.

 

[Pancakes]

In what world is trading our first to get rid of JJ preferable to just buying him out?

Depends how cap crunched we'd be by buying him out I suppose.

In a world where Pittsburgh doesn’t buy players out.

Also that. It's easy to say buyout but a trade might be preferable for Mario & Burkle. Ownership does come into play when it comes to buying guys out. The Pens' resources aren't limitless.

 

[Gurglesons]

I hope GMJR is aggressive in trade talks for Ehlers.

I wonder if Schultz has Winnipeg on his no-trade list, because he's a guy I would float in trade talks to them otherwise. Yeah, trading Schultz for Ehlers will make a bad D corps even worse, but acquiring a 23-year old 60-point guy who is signed long term... it could be worth the sacrifice, especielly with the absence of young high-quality offensive forwards in the organization. And who knows if Schultz is here in a year anyway.

Plus, it opens up a spot in the top-six for JJ

I like Ehlers, but I don’t think he is a need we can afford to take unless we move out Kessel or Hornqvist.

 

[Malkinstheman]

In what world is trading our first to get rid of JJ preferable to just buying him out?

Or even just retaining on him. You cant tell me someone wont take JJ at like 1.8m.

 

[Beauner]

Johnson's contract is so long that I don't think any team would want to take him to hit the cap floor. Why do that when you can take Callahan as a 1 year cap dump?

Ottawa isn't competing for anything except the first overall pick for at least the next 2 years. After that the cap will go up enough that his cap hit won't be much of an issue anymore. It only makes sense for Ottawa, but I think it really makes sense for them if they can squeeze a draft pick or another asset out of the Pens.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

The Coyotes don't really have the cap space to do that, especially with the rumors of Marleau going to Arizona. I do think you can do that with Colorado, but I don't think trading up from 21 to 16 is worth also giving up Rust.

Depends who we get. Does everyone think York really falls to 21? I know hes fallen a bit but a proven track record and was ranked anywhere from #9 to #16 from what I've seen. Dont know why some have him going to us at 21.

Would you trade Rust knowing it would land us York(and freeing up cap space)?

Or keep Rust and take whoever else falls to us ...likely being a good prospect as well.

I guess its all about how high one is on York. We haven't had great luck in drafting D but that was under Shero. York could be a game changer. Yeah hes only 18, but if hes what is expected....should be ready sooner than later and would be up during this window