Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building: Does it even Maatta? The defense is still absolute Jack.

[Riptide]

There's not one team in the East I favor us against if Johnson is getting 18 minutes per game.

JJ received 15 minutes a game in the POs... almost a full minute less than Gudbranson and 2:40 less than Pettersson. And as bad as he's been at times, he wasn't the reason why we got swept, or really even why we lost.

I think though we have to recognize that if Johnson is on this roster he's on the ice and most likely the second pair with Schultz. We can talk about him being in the press box this season all we want but he sat exactly once this season. The dude has a talent for getting coaches to trust him in big minutes.

Not when we're healthy and things are on the line. JJ played 3 PO games for us and his minutes went down each and every game (14:30, 13, 12 at ES).

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Never said anything about Kakko other than including him in the comment about getting hyped. That said - for a top pick I wouldn't stack him in either the top echelon (Sid, Ovi, McDavid) or the group right below (Matthews/Eichel). This is a draft year below those two - and even those top two classes require help in other areas on your roster. I'd have to seriously consider Kakko over Hughes to an extent - but I'm no scout.

It sounds like talking in absolutes but I rather mean to speak in a logic-based sense. Hughes may end up lighting the world on fire, but usually when you have a guy like that you begin hearing about them at a younger age - and they become unanimous picks. Of course the inverse can happen - anything can happen. Hughes has shifted for his draft year in what seems like every other month. I don't remember such waffling in generational draft years - nor even that tier below.

And because you don't think Miller is worth his contract he's "soo overrated" - how's that reasonable? Mentioning a guy a lot does not make them overrated.

Idk man. Really doesn’t matter for us but Hughes went wire to wire for McKenzie as the consensus top guy. He’s not “generational” but only Sid and McDavid were.

Yeah I think Miller gets overrated because he seemingly always scores/plays well against the Pens and is from Pittsburgh. I don’t think he’s a bad player though.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I wonder if the Jets would be swayed by something like Rust and a 1st for Ehlers.

They keep speed, add proven playoff performance and defense, shave a few mil off the cap, and add a good futures asset.

 

[Andy99]

i think they're really fishing with Letang being there

Remember TIOPS and Eklund saying Letang has been coming up in trade discussions...Lol

 

[TKalltheTime]

I'm not the one who signed Jack Johnson.

Also - Rust is completely expendable at this point.

What's your stance here?

JJ needs to be moved & was incredibly stupid to sign him to a 5-year deal.

It would have been less vomit inducing if it was a 2-3 year deal at most.

Moving a guy like Rust is incredibly stupid, we need more guys like rust not moving them off the team because... TRADES!!1!!

If you want to clear spots & money there are about 4-6 other players that should be shot to the moon rather than moving a very versatile player like rust.

If you want to know who those players are; look at my previous posts, I usually mention them a lot. There are way more vanilla trash players to be expelled over a guy like Rust.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...tion=L&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=evPoints

Cost-controlled, lightning-fast 23 year old LW who has solid underlying metrics and produces at an elite level at ES.

I'd say so. If Kessel were definitely on the move I'd want a guy like Ehlers to replace him.

He's like Zucker but young and productive enough to make it palatable.

Zucker is 27, not 31 or something. Ehlers is 23.

Zucker has 76g 77a 153pts in that span--120pts at ES

Ehlers has 75g 86a 161pts in that span--129pts at ES.

They have almost identical production, but Ehlers would make trading Phil palatable whereas Zucker wouldn't?

I'm with you on the contract situation though. That's the big one--everything else is so similar it isn't even really worth mentioning.

Maybe if JR is feeling real zany, he could try and get both. That'd be an exceptional summer.

 

[TKalltheTime]

Remember TIOPS and Eklund saying Letang has been coming up in trade discussions...Lol

I can tell you this. He would be moved WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY before a guy like 71 would ever be in they really wanted to shake things up.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

In those 3 years, he had 12, 17 and 20 ES goals. I think you're just really underrating Miller.

12, 12, 17, 20 if we discount last year in a decent bit of ice time. Average of 15 tucks a year at evens.

Not bad but nothing to write home about either. Idk, is that something we’d want to give up assets for and pay ~6M long term with a No trade clause too?

Feel like you could deploy Rust where you would Miller and get very comparable output.

 

[ColePens]

Ehlers would fit well anywhere. And his contract is beautiful.

I've always thought this as well. I feel like he plays such a different game than the Jets want.

Just thinking outside the box, if I'm the Oilers - i'm going HARD to get him on the team.

 

[molon labe]

Totally disagree! Way too many people base this Penguins team off 4 games. That is crazy and not very smart. Pens played poorly and it happens. You need to be hot at the right time and the Pens obviously played poorly. Blues won the Cup but no way are they the best team in the NHL. I would take our roster over theirs anyday.

Giving up our 1st to get rid of Johnson is ridiculous. Johnson was not the reason this team got swept. Crosby had 1 assist and was a -4 in those 4 games. You are not going to win when your 100 point star gets shut down. The whole team played like crap and Johnson is not great but he certainly is serviceable.

JJ’s first 25 games he was horrendous and -13. After that point Johnson was +9 the rest of the season while playing top 4 minutes. Johnson is nothing spectacular for sure but hardly the reason this team flopped in the playoffs. I know plus minus is not everything but if he truly was as bad as people say he would not be on the ice for 9 more goals scored than given up while playing big minutes. I am all for moving on if we can get someone better and wish we would of went for Trouba as a rental for that price he went for but giving up our 1st just to get rid of JJ’s modest salary is ludicrous. I would buy him out before doing that which would only be $1 million cap hit lost. Personally I think we could trade him with no retention or giving up anything close to a 1st. Glad you are not the GM.

Also I read a quote from Rutherford that Johnson was never part of that Kessel trade so that was fake news!

Eh, you can judge a team on two straight years of mediocrity though - which is what most of us are doing. When you ice the cake with a first round sweep you fix the issues, not act like you're beyond a missed playoff berth. Notice how every other team in the Metro keep getting stronger? Playoff berths are no longer guaranteed - and when you have a guy who, for 18 minutes a game will negatively impact whoever he's with (as in, less goals, less shots, more shots against, etc) - you're not setting yourself up for success

 

[JackFr]

I've always thought this as well. I feel like he plays such a different game than the Jets want.

Just thinking outside the box, if I'm the Oilers - i'm going HARD to get him on the team.

If Nurse for Ehlers was possible Id leap of I'm the Oilers.

 

[Peat]

I shan't go over the Hughes stuff because CheckingLineCenter did that well enough, but regardless of whether you want to trade the 1st now, or draft and trade the prospect later if needs be, it's still one of the only trade chips we have for real difference makers and we should only be using it to move Johnson if there's no other way.

 

[ColePens]

I wonder if the Jets would be swayed by something like Rust and a 1st for Ehlers.

They keep speed, add proven playoff performance and defense, shave a few mil off the cap, and add a good futures asset.

I know both of us love Rusty and every thing he has done, but Rust on the Jets is a nice fit. Ehlers on the Pens is a nice fit. That's just one of those win/win type scenarios.

I'm just thinking in terms of the idea for how the players would play on one another's team.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The dude has a talent for getting coaches to trust him in big minutes.

Perhaps, but his last two coaches have benched him in b2b playoffs.

 

[Riptide]

If GMJR trades the 1st round pick just to move JJ he should be fired on the spot
He has done enough damage in the past 3 years moving picks just to get rid of mistakes he has made

Selling low on Sheary and acquiring McCann and Bjugstad isn't exactly all that much damage...

 

[molon labe]

JJ received 15 minutes a game in the POs... almost a full minute less than Gudbranson and 2:40 less than Pettersson. And as bad as he's been at times, he wasn't the reason why we got swept, or really even why we lost.

Both this year and last we had many factors affecting the loss - agreed.

What I said before that quote was that having Johnson on the roster will prevent us from chasing another cup. It sounds insane - but I don't think a run to the cup (which are largely based on a series of small events) can withstand such a net-negative presence. Can we afford - say 15 minutes per game - of a guy who shaves 5% or more production from whoever he's with? Crosby can take a hit and still be the best player on the ice, but what about McCann? Or Schultz? How many bad bounces, defenders pushed into his own netminder, missed plays behind the net can a true cup contender withstand? He not only requires Murray to be even better when he's out there, he requires everyone else to as well. We're paddling up river and I'd rather folks who are rowing versus dead weight sitting in the boat.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I've always thought this as well. I feel like he plays such a different game than the Jets want.

Just thinking outside the box, if I'm the Oilers - i'm going HARD to get him on the team.

If I’m the Oilers I’m going hard to add any winger who’s shown he can be even slightly capable at the NHL level lmao

 

[ownal]

{hypothetical} Ehlers - Malkin - Zucker would be a very good line.

 

[JRS91]

I think Ehlers will go to Colorado.

 

[Riptide]

12, 12, 17, 20 if we discount last year in a decent bit of ice time. Average of 15 tucks a year at evens.

Not bad but nothing to write home about either. Idk, is that something we’d want to give up assets for and pay ~6M long term with a No trade clause too?

Feel like you could deploy Rust where you would Miller and get very comparable output.

Guess it's a good thing he doesn't make anything close to 6m then isn't it? And his NTC is an 8 team list. That's so minor that I wouldn't even be worried about it.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Believe it or not, the Penguins are the only team in the league who have never bought anyone out. . (Not counting Vegas). I guess we really havent had any putrid contract during the Sid era (until now). Scuderi stands out but we were able to get rid of it.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Zucker is 27, not 31 or something. Ehlers is 23.

Zucker has 76g 77a 153pts in that span--120pts at ES

Ehlers has 75g 86a 161pts in that span--129pts at ES.

They have almost identical production, but Ehlers would make trading Phil palatable whereas Zucker wouldn't?

I'm with you on the contract situation though. That's the big one--everything else is so similar it isn't even really worth mentioning.

Maybe if JR is feeling real zany, he could try and get both. That'd be an exceptional summer.

For me, yes. Because Ehlers is quite a bit younger (same difference between he and Zucker as Zucker and Kessel) and more productive at ES over that span in 16 fewer games.

Ehlers is also coming off a more productive season at ES, with 30 ES points in 62 games opposed to Zucker's 28 in 81.

He's a good enough version of what I'd want at ES - with room still to grow and a longer deal signed through his absolute prime - that he would be a suitable replacement for Kessel where Zucker wouldn't hit the mark.

 

[molon labe]

Idk man. Really doesn’t matter for us but Hughes went wire to wire for McKenzie as the consensus top guy. He’s not “generational” but only Sid and McDavid were.

Yeah I think Miller gets overrated because he seemingly always scores/plays well against the Pens and is from Pittsburgh. I don’t think he’s a bad player though.

In threads about Hughes - fans are dillusional. His value trumps anything and everything - and it's a gripe I have every year with draft picks.

If Buffalo offers you Eichel (say, they want to get cheaper because of Skinner and view their window as 3-4 years from now) - you take it and run. People argue that Hughes is the 'next coming' and it takes a massive overpayment for him. Give me a proven talent 9/10 times versus a 'maybe'.

What if Toronto offers you Marner for the same reason? These are guys who are all-stars but not generational. I've seen fans who straight up won't hear any of it. That's fine when you're set to draft Ovi, Sid, McDavid like you mentioned - but in other draft years I think it's worthwhile to consider. That extends tenfold to these middling first round picks (21OA especially). You look at the draft years of those generational guys and you get 5-10 all stars in the first round who get pushed to picks 5-20+...that just rarely seems to be the case otherwise. Therefore, I don't know what the obsession is with our 21st pick - the guys we're looking at are some 6' defenders with some decent history, a goalie (why), and a few forward prospects. Of course you never know - but what we KNOW right now is that we have Sid and Geno. The chances of having a 1-2C punch like that are unlikely to ever happen again. I'll take the veteran support piece.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Guess it's a good thing he doesn't make anything close to 6m then isn't it? And his NTC is an 8 team list. That's so minor that I wouldn't even be worried about it.

Thought he was at 5.8M but true. (Although he is making 6M real dollars )

Doesn’t really change my opinion. Better ways to spend assets/cap space IMO.

 

[Empoleon8771]

By the end of the season, Johnson's ice time fell off a cliff. Once it became blatantly apparent that Johnson-Schultz wasn't working, Sullivan gradually decreased his ice time and gave more minutes to Pettersson-Gudbranson, which was dominant when together. I really don't see a reason to think that they're going to reverse that trend with Pettersson only improving.

I think a completely reasonable suggestion is that the Penguins run with Pettersson-Gudbranson as their 2nd pair and Johnson-Schultz as their 3rd pair, but keep Schultz's ice time near his normal levels by double shifting Pettersson or Dumoulin with him sometimes. You're going to see Johnson at only 15 or 16 minutes a night (similar to what guys like Coburn were getting) and you'll have 5 D with top-4 minutes. It's kinda the same thing they do when Ruhwedel is in the lineup.