Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building: Does it even Maatta? The defense is still absolute Jack.

[molon labe]

If that’s what he was quoted saying I wouldn’t take it literally. He himself won’t know what he’ll do as he doesn’t control what’s offered to him. He’ll make the decisions at the time they present themselves. He’s not going to make a couple of moves and then stop just because he was quoted saying that in the past that’s what he’d do.

Even if he does say something today that opinion/thought can change later that day with one phone call. Take what is reported he says in the media with a grain of salt.

Most of the time I do.

With JR - he tends to mean what he says. I know he's being honest about Kessel controlling his own destiny and I also know he's probably posturing for the Minnesota deal. Part of me holds out that it'll still happen (and I pray that Johnson is part of it as rumored) since Zucker is still on the table...but I don't know man. He's a guy who believes in incremental chances. Sometimes they're big changes, but I'm not sure he's got the stones to do 4-5 changes in one Summer.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah. I don't think we can ride Schultz like the Hawks did with Hjalmarsson in that run though.

Pettersson is good. But it's asking enough of him to be a #4.

I actually think you'd be relatively fine with riding Pettersson-Schultz as a standard 2nd pair. Pettersson was averaging about 16 minutes a night at ES in the last quarter or so of the season, which is pretty standard for a top-4 defenseman. He just didn't get the PP or PK TOI that other top-4 D get, but he was used like a top-4 D down the stretch.

If you ran with Dumoulin-Letang and Pettersson-Schultz as your top-4, I think you'd only see Pettersson's ice time increase with special teams minutes. I don't think he'd get a big jump in ES TOI, maybe 30 seconds a game.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Yeah. I don't think we can ride Schultz like the Hawks did with Hjalmarsson in that run though.

Pettersson is good. But it's asking enough of him to be a #4.

The goal(when trading for him) is for Pettersson to become exactly that. And he showed enough promise in his rookie season to expect a jump in production.

Seems like some keep evaluating the team going forward as they were from last year but we have plenty of young guys who "should" improve. That's what this team is relying on. We'll see if it happens but thats what needs to happen if we are going to be a top contender.

McCann becoming a Zucker type. Blueger a luxury at 4C..the talent to be 3C but Bjugstad playing well enough that he stays there. Pettersson being a solid 2nd pairing dman. Kahun/Simon/ZAR.

There are alot of players that could improve and be valuable to this team...and this is the year we should know for sure with alot of them. They got their experience here last year. Time to step up or be replaced....

These are the players that will determine how great this team can be. We know what to expect from our top guys.

 

[JackFr]

If we can trade that first for a top 4 defenceman or a home run like Ehlers then I'm all for it. If we can't, I admit wasting a 1st on getting rid of Johnson seems a bit much

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I get the premise of unloading JJ with the 1st... but in theory if we draft a player and slide his ELC even just for one year... it kinda covers the rest of Johnson’s contract from a salary cap standpoint.

If nothing obvious presents itself via trade best option IMO is to bury him in WB/S. Opens a little space and maybe he develops a skin condition.

 

[JackFr]

I think though we have to recognize that if Johnson is on this roster he's on the ice and most likely the second pair with Schultz. We can talk about him being in the press box this season all we want but he sat exactly once this season. The dude has a talent for getting coaches to trust him in big minutes.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

If we can trade that first for a top 4 defenceman or a home run like Ehlers then I'm all for it. If we can't, I admit wasting a 1st on getting rid of Johnson seems a bit much

Do you think Ehlers fits well here?

 

[molon labe]

Jack Hughes is at best going to be a 55-60 point player? What?

And, leaving aside that I think Miller is an overrated low IQ player, if the 1st gets you a player of the caliber at which he's generally rated, sure, do it. Elsewise, keep the pick because you can always trade that prospect for guys like Miller later. There are very few people among the people talking the draft who'd heavily disagree with that.

First off - yes. Why is this a question? He's plastered all over the headlines but he's not some generational kid. EVERY single year the 1-2 guys in the draft get ridiculously hyped. In some cases it's justified -this is not one of them.

Second, Miller is not low IQ nor overrated. He's mentioned here a lot - but that's because he'd be a great LW with Geno (theoretically of course). Nobody is running around talking about him as some sort of stud. Overrated is calling someone like Jack Hughes a game changer.

In generational drafts, your potential 55-60 point guys get pushed to the 5-20 range. This ain't one of those. Those guys are getting taken right away and what we're left with is a goalie (lol), some D prospects that look to have solid builds...but that's all they are - prospects...and some forwards who have shown a little potential. Nothing special there. Youth will always be available, the core we have won't. I'd let anyone here choose 50 names from the draft board and seriously wonder how they could believe any single one of them would make an impact during the rest of Sid or Geno's tenure. If it even came close, it would be ousted by the veteran who that pick could have garnished. Folks who are obsessed with picks usually want to build for post-Sid/Geno. I can't disagree more with any stance on this board.

 

[JackFr]

Do you think Ehlers fits well here?

Ehlers would fit well anywhere. And his contract is beautiful.

 

[domaug]

Ehlers would fit well anywhere. And his contract is beautiful.

I'm scared to see what they want for him tbh

 

[JackFr]

I'm scared to see what they want for him tbh

After that Trouba trade who knows honestly. It's a pipe dream obviously but if they're shopping him at all that means there's a chance haha.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

If GMJR trades the 1st round pick just to move JJ he should be fired on the spot
He has done enough damage in the past 3 years moving picks just to get rid of mistakes he has made

 

[Tom Hanks]

Most of the time I do.

With JR - he tends to mean what he says. I know he's being honest about Kessel controlling his own destiny and I also know he's probably posturing for the Minnesota deal. Part of me holds out that it'll still happen (and I pray that Johnson is part of it as rumored) since Zucker is still on the table...but I don't know man. He's a guy who believes in incremental chances. Sometimes they're big changes, but I'm not sure he's got the stones to do 4-5 changes in one Summer.

He doesn’t need to make that many big changes though. JJ out and a D man in plus a Kessel for Zucker swap would go a long way. Everything else is small potatoes.

The minimum has to be JJ gone though. He was terrible. Last or near last in basically every adv. stat. He was actually the only D that was on the ice for more goals against than we scored at 5v5 (300 minute minimum everyone except Ruh/Trot). Everyone that played any significant time with him became worse.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

First off - yes. Why is this a question? He's plastered all over the headlines but he's not some generational kid. EVERY single year the 1-2 guys in the draft get ridiculously hyped. In some cases it's justified -this is not one of them.

Second, Miller is not low IQ nor overrated. He's mentioned here a lot - but that's because he'd be a great LW with Geno (theoretically of course). Nobody is running around talking about him as some sort of stud. Overrated is calling someone like Jack Hughes a game changer.

In generational drafts, your potential 55-60 point guys get pushed to the 5-20 range. This ain't one of those. Those guys are getting taken right away and what we're left with is a goalie (lol), some D prospects that look to have solid builds...but that's all they are - prospects...and some forwards who have shown a little potential. Nothing special there. Youth will always be available, the core we have won't. I'd let anyone here choose 50 names from the draft board and seriously wonder how they could believe any single one of them would make an impact during the rest of Sid or Geno's tenure. If it even came close, it would be ousted by the veteran who that pick could have garnished. Folks who are obsessed with picks usually want to build for post-Sid/Geno. I can't disagree more with any stance on this board.

Kid who’s shattered every American scoring record is a 55-60 guy at best? Huh?

Even if you don’t like Hughes what about Kakko? The kid ripped up the Finnish league and killed top guys at WC..

Yikes.

Also Miller gets so overrated in here. He’d stink with Geno. Never shoots the puck and is reliant on the PP. Not an awful player by any means (he’s okay) but not worth his new deal.

I’d like a volume shooter with Malkin. Which is why I’m slightly open to Kessel going. Less about defense more about the fact he doesn’t shoot the puck as often to make up for the poor 2-way play.

 

[dogthateats]

I'm scared to see what they want for him tbh

TSN says it is believed that they offered Ehlers to Carolina for one of their RH D-men.

 

[JackFr]

TSN says it is believed that they offered Ehlers to Carolina for one of their RH D-men.

Unless the defenceman was Faulk I don't think we're gonna be able to beat that.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Do you think Ehlers fits well here?

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...tion=L&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=evPoints

Cost-controlled, lightning-fast 23 year old LW who has solid underlying metrics and produces at an elite level at ES.

I'd say so. If Kessel were definitely on the move I'd want a guy like Ehlers to replace him.

He's like Zucker but young and productive enough to make it palatable.

 

[TKalltheTime]

I would like to see Johnson paired with the 1st, and either a prospect D coming back or nothing at all (and we find a sub-2M defender to take his plae).

I wouldn't hate seeing Rust traded for a similar situation - younger/ELC player or nothing/picks. Or use Rust after the Johnson deal to get that cheap defender.

The two of them represent 7M in cap. If we could replace that with 2-3M, that would help a lot in the long run. Neither contract is necessary at this point.

HURRAYYYYYY for incredibly stupid asset management, JR is that you?!

 

[Empoleon8771]

Also Miller gets so overrated in here. He’d stink with Geno. Never shoots the puck and is reliant on the PP. Not an awful player by any means (he’s okay) but not worth his new deal.

Miller had 40, 45 and 39 ES points in the 3 years before this year. He only got fewer ES points this season because he was a depth player for Tampa Bay at ES. JT Miller is a really, really damn good player:

T.B 1819 J. Miller Replacements

 

[Riptide]

I would like to see Johnson paired with the 1st, and either a prospect D coming back or nothing at all (and we find a sub-2M defender to take his plae).

I wouldn't hate seeing Rust traded for a similar situation - younger/ELC player or nothing/picks. Or use Rust after the Johnson deal to get that cheap defender.

The two of them represent 7M in cap. If we could replace that with 2-3M, that would help a lot in the long run. Neither contract is necessary at this point.

You'd think that JJ+1st (21) to Ottawa for their 2nd (#32) would be an option. I can see why JR wouldn't want to do it... but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Miller had 40, 45 and 39 ES points in the 3 years before this year. He only got fewer ES points this season because he was a depth player for Tampa Bay at ES.

Yeah total points aren’t terrible but the ES goal numbers are weak for sure. Add that to really low SOG totals and I don’t like him with Malkin.

 

[molon labe]

Kid who’s shattered every American scoring record is a 55-60 guy at best? Huh?

Even if you don’t like Hughes what about Kakko? Kid ripped up the Finnish league and killed top guys at WC..

Yikes.

Also Miller gets so overrated in here. He’d stink with Geno. Never shoots the puck and is reliant on the PP. Not an awful player by any means (he’s okay) but not worth his new deal.

Never said anything about Kakko other than including him in the comment about getting hyped. That said - for a top pick I wouldn't stack him in either the top echelon (Sid, Ovi, McDavid) or the group right below (Matthews/Eichel). This is a draft year below those two - and even those top two classes require help in other areas on your roster. I'd have to seriously consider Kakko over Hughes to an extent - but I'm no scout.

It sounds like talking in absolutes but I rather mean to speak in a logic-based sense. Hughes may end up lighting the world on fire, but usually when you have a guy like that you begin hearing about them at a younger age - and they become unanimous picks. Of course the inverse can happen - anything can happen. Hughes has shifted for his draft year in what seems like every other month. I don't remember such waffling in generational draft years - nor even that tier below.

And because you don't think Miller is worth his contract he's "soo overrated" - how's that reasonable? Mentioning a guy a lot does not make them overrated.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah total points aren’t terrible but the ES goal numbers are weak for sure. Add that to really low SOG totals and I don’t like him with Malkin.

In those 3 years, he had 12, 17 and 20 ES goals. I think you're just really underrating Miller.

 

[molon labe]

HURRAYYYYYY for incredibly stupid asset management, JR is that you?!

I'm not the one who signed Jack Johnson.

Also - Rust is completely expendable at this point.

What's your stance here?

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

You really take that stance?

I staunchly disagree. I'd give up our first rounder (which is highly overrated at this point anyway...we're looking at a few "maybe" D prospects at 21OA) without taking a pick back to get rid of Johnson.

It's not only his contract that is 3 years too long. It's how bad he makes everyone around him. Sid and Geno can carry a bad linemate here or there - but at their age, it's getting tougher to do so. Having him here will absolutely tank our chances in the post season. There's not one team in the East I favor us against if Johnson is getting 18 minutes per game.

Totally disagree! Way too many people base this Penguins team off 4 games. That is crazy and not very smart. Pens played poorly and it happens. You need to be hot at the right time and the Pens obviously played poorly. Blues won the Cup but no way are they the best team in the NHL. I would take our roster over theirs anyday.

Giving up our 1st to get rid of Johnson is ridiculous. Johnson was not the reason this team got swept. Crosby had 1 assist and was a -4 in those 4 games. You are not going to win when your 100 point star gets shut down. The whole team played like crap and Johnson is not great but he certainly is serviceable.

JJ’s first 25 games he was horrendous and -13. After that point Johnson was +9 the rest of the season while playing top 4 minutes. Johnson is nothing spectacular for sure but hardly the reason this team flopped in the playoffs. I know plus minus is not everything but if he truly was as bad as people say he would not be on the ice for 9 more goals scored than given up while playing big minutes. I am all for moving on if we can get someone better and wish we would of went for Trouba as a rental for that price he went for but giving up our 1st just to get rid of JJ’s modest salary is ludicrous. I would buy him out before doing that which would only be $1 million cap hit lost. Personally I think we could trade him with no retention or giving up anything close to a 1st. Glad you are not the GM.

Also I read a quote from Rutherford that Johnson was never part of that Kessel trade so that was fake news!