Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | Cap Details + Links in First Post

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Freeptop

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Jun 17, 2009
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Okay so Crosby/Malkin/Jake/Letang untouchable. Murray and Dumo at "blow us away" levels and the rest we can talk about.

If I'm trading Murray I'm not swapping change-of-scenery goalies. I'm trading him to a goalie-desperate team that would give us a good young skater, a good prospect and a 1st or something like that.

I guess you're not trading Murray then, because I can't remember the last time any goalie got a return like that. The closest I can think of was the Patrick Roy trade, and that involved an additional player going with Roy in exchange for three players (including goaltender Thibault) back to Montreal, and no draft picks included. Murray isn't Roy, so there's no chance he's getting a better return.
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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TIOPS (yes I know how bad they are) is saying that management envisions Bjugstad playing on Sid’s RW. If that’s true I would think the lines would be

Jake Sid Bjugstad
Rust Malkin Kessel
Pearson McCann Hornqvist
Simon Cullen ZAR

I like that lineup but my fourth line would probably be Blueger Cullen Simon

TIOPS basically just ripped the story that Yohe just gave then, where he said the same thing.
 

Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
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Agree that Quick may not be the answer...but if we’re in the POs this year and Murray is average or below again, I don’t see how you can to yourself, well he posted .920 a few years ago, maybe he can do it again...I’m not interested in paying Murray $6 mil on his next contract in the hope he can do it again...some guys have good year or two and fall back to earth...I’m just saying, if you can get a good offer for Murray, the team should listen to it

How good is good?
 

Andy99

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Jun 26, 2017
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Yes, based on league average save%, completely:

NHL League Averages | Hockey-Reference.com

The league average save% in 2013-2014 and 2014-2015 was .915. It's .908 now. To say that Murray needs to have a .920 save% or he needs to leave is just an absurd standard, there's no other way to describe it.

That’s not what I said...I said I’d consider moving him, and entertaining offers, if we get to the POs and he’s out played by the opposing goaltender again (or unavailable due to injury), which means someone else is posting about .920 save %...I don’t want to pay him $6 mil a year not knowing if he’ll give us the goaltending we need to win a Cup or be healthy...
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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That’s not what I said...I said I’d consider moving him, and entertaining offers, if we get to the POs and he’s out played by the opposing goaltender again (or unavailable due to injury), which means someone else is posting about .920 save %...I don’t want to pay him $6 mil a year not knowing if he’ll give us the goaltending we need to win a Cup or be healthy...

You don't trade your 2x cup winning goalie because he gets outplayed in 1 series, you make your offense better and get more goals out of them.

Should the Lightning trade Vasilevskiy after the year if he gets outplayed in the playoffs again? Vasilevskiy only put up a .906 save% against Washington last year, should they give him the boot if he gets outplayed by Holtby again?
 
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Andy99

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How good is good?

He should be in the top half at least of goalies, which this year appears to be between .912-.914 in the RS and he needs to be able to exceed that in the POs for us to have a successful season...
 

Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
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He should be in the top half at least of goalies, which this year appears to be between .912-.914 in the RS and he needs to be able to exceed that in the POs for us to have a successful season...

No, I meant how good does the trade offer need to be?

You do realise that in any attempt to replace Murray you're going to be super lucky to get someone who's going to be in that top half of goalies right?
 
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Andy99

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You don't trade your 2x cup winning goalie because he gets outplayed in 1 series, you make your offense better and get more goals out of them.

Again, what if we get to the POs this year and he’s outplayed again as he was last year, or he’s not healthy...are you signing him next year to a $6 mil contract extension? If not, then you have to trade him over the summer..
 

Shady Machine

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Aug 6, 2010
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That’s not what I said...I said I’d consider moving him, and entertaining offers, if we get to the POs and he’s out played by the opposing goaltender again (or unavailable due to injury), which means someone else is posting about .920 save %...I don’t want to pay him $6 mil a year not knowing if he’ll give us the goaltending we need to win a Cup or be healthy...

If there were better alternatives out there, then sure trade Murray. Problem is there really aren't.
 

Hockey4Lyfe

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Feb 26, 2018
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Who are the defensive trade targets that would realistically help out this team?

Like what are some of your dream/realistic trade scenarios?
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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Again, what if we get to the POs this year and he’s outplayed again as he was last year, or he’s not healthy...are you signing him next year to a $6 mil contract extension? If not, then you have to trade him over the summer..

Yes easily, because I'm not trading my 2x cup winning goalie because he got outplayed in 2 playoff series and you're not going to get a better alternative.

Based on your logic, there is no goalie in hockey that meets your standards for who their starter should be. Vasilevskiy was outplayed by Holtby last year and only had a .906 save% against the Capitals. Holtby was outplayed by Fleury in 2017 and only had a .887 save% against the Penguins. Fleury was outplayed by a ton of guys in the playoffs over his career.
 
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Andy99

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No, I meant how good does the trade offer need to be?

You do realise that in any attempt to replace Murray you're going to be super lucky to get someone who's going to be in that top half of goalies right?

First round pick +, or a second and a very good prospect...and we’d probably have to sign another goalie in FA, maybe Varlamov...there’s a lot of young goaltenders who have come up and are playing well this year...we’ll see how they do in the POs...
 

Peat

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First round pick +, or a second and a very good prospect...and we’d probably have to sign another goalie in FA, maybe Varlamov...there’s a lot of young goaltenders who have come up and are playing well this year...we’ll see how they do in the POs...

So you're worried about his consistency, so your solution would be to go get an unproven goaltender who's likely to have consistency issues?

A 1st plus/2nd + good prospect don't sound worth doing that to me - and frankly, if that's the scenario, why not just give Jarry another shot and save the price of acquiring a lottery ticket?

As for Varlamov... there's worse solutions, but he'd cost the same 6m (if not more), only a season earlier, and he's never even posted .920 in the playoffs once, and has only done it in his two of his last five seasons. Assuming he doesn't sign elsewhere and leave you up the creak.

I get the frustration with Murray's injuries. But I think you're way overrating the ease of getting someone who fits what you want. Its near impossible. You'll merely be exchanging one gamble for another, only getting less ceiling and possibly more cap in the process. If Murray's going to continue being shaky I get the argument for cashing in and having the assets + the gamble... but it has to be more assets than that. I'd be looking for serious ready now players, not prospects.
 

Andy99

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Jun 26, 2017
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If there were better alternatives out there, then sure trade Murray. Problem is there really aren't.

Well I’m not sure there’ll be better alternatives out there...I just think if we can’t rely on Murray (injury or otherwise) then I don’t want to sign him to a lengthy extension t double his current salary
 
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Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
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Well I’m not sure there’ll be better alternatives out there...I just think if we can’t rely on Murray (injury or otherwise) then I don’t want to sign him to a lengthy extension t double his current salary

I'm just not sure there's a better option. Some positions are like hens teeth when it comes to filling them in trade.

And if he has another sucky year, then that's probably affecting his next contract anyway.
 

LittleSpoon

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Jan 17, 2016
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Well I’m not sure there’ll be better alternatives out there...I just think if we can’t rely on Murray (injury or otherwise) then I don’t want to sign him to a lengthy extension t double his current salary
I don’t fully disagree with this thinking, but it’s possible that if you don’t resign Murray the pens end up closer to how the flyers have been rather than improving.
 

vid387

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Jun 23, 2010
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Pittsburgh, PA
Send Johnson and a pick & prospect for Keith. Who cares if Keith sucks in 4 years when Johnson will suck then and until then. I agree gms think higher of Johnson than fans and may fill that “current nhl player” gms are looking for in trades.

Keith-Schultz
Petterson-maatta

SHOULD be a solid bottom six. If it fails look to move maatta and Pearson in the off-season
 
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