Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | Cap Details + Links in First Post | We can't pay the D this much...

[Empoleon8771]

If you traded Johnson and had Maatta and Pettersson rotating between the 2nd and 3rd pairing as circs and form dictated, that'd make perfect sense to me.

They should be trying to get an upgrade on the 2nd pair LD spot and having Pettersson as the 3rd pair LD. Maatta isn't good enough for me to be comfortable with the 2nd pair with him on it and he's too expensive to be the 3rd pair LD.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I don't think many people are, but like I said in the Gudbranson trade, every single GM should be looking at our D situation and know that we have to dump salary there. Who's going to offer anything for the other two when Maatta is on the block?

Teams that need dmen?

We are just gonna have to win the cup again to raise everyone's value. Oh well.

 

[Peat]

I don't think many people are, but like I said in the Gudbranson trade, every single GM should be looking at our D situation and know that we have to dump salary there. Who's going to offer anything for the other two when Maatta is on the block?

Its possible we'd want less for them, or the other GMs might value toughness too.

They should be trying to get an upgrade on the 2nd pair LD spot and having Pettersson as the 3rd pair LD. Maatta isn't good enough for me to be comfortable with the 2nd pair with him on it and he's too expensive to be the 3rd pair LD.

But getting that upgrade is clearly being really difficult. And you know that if Maatta goes, its probably not for an upgrade, but so you can have the exact same thing except with Johnson's name there rather than Maatta's.

 

[NMK11]

Its possible we'd want less for them, or the other GMs might value toughness too.

Sure, I think because we could use the cap space I'd be happy moving particularly Gudbranson and JJ for whatever picks other teams may offer. You just ideally need to move two of the three of them to give yourself the ability to address other roster needs (top 9 LW, a second pairing-level D, depth, Pets raise) and it's going to be hard. Some GM very well may decide they want a bigger blueline, but I'm just going to have to see it happen this offseason to believe it. Our defensemen are a mess.

 

[Empoleon8771]

But getting that upgrade is clearly being really difficult. And you know that if Maatta goes, its probably not for an upgrade, but so you can have the exact same thing except with Johnson's name there rather than Maatta's.

Not really, you usually see 2-3 defenseman that would be upgrades on Maatta traded a year. It's more expensive than difficult.

I'm also in full support of moving Johnson for the same reason, so you can say the same thing about Johnson. Gudbranson is the only guy that doesn't apply to, because he's a RD and the others are LD.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If we could move one of them too, I would, but I don't see anyone going for Johnson and right now, Gudbranson has been fine.

2 games Shrimper! Of being adequate after years worth of posting some of the worst numbers in the league.

Regardless of who would "go for" JJ right now, I'd happily explore every possible angle of moving JJ, Gudbranson, and/or Maatta before I'd begin to think of moving Kessel.

Phil's 14th in league scoring over the last 2 seasons and starting next year his cap hit is significantly less than everyone above him outside of MacKinnon, Gaudreau, and Marchand. He has his faults but man, talk about being taken for granted.

 

[chethejet]

Olli has value and can be moved with a pick and or prospect. Clearly Kessel is a value at that salary and term. With the FA RW's coming off the market, a package of a first and top prospect is a deal that can be made. Defense can be good with the following:
Letang Dumo
Schultz JJ
Gudbranson Riikola is approx 25 million
Goaltending is 5 million leaving 53 million of room for forwards. Moving Kessel and Olli leaves close to 14 million if cap is 82 million next year. Olli can fetch a low number one or a two and a prospect. One other move that I would make is Horny if a fast RH RW comes back to play with Malkin.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

If anyones worried about Maattas trde value dont.

4 million dollar, Vancouver version of Eric Gudbranson, who has been one of the worst defenders in the league got a functional mid 6 forward.

Maatta has the same AAV, two cup rings and has been inarguably better even in his down years.

We are good

 

[Empoleon8771]

I doubt they'd do this if Gudbranson plays well to end this year, but would you trade Gudbranson for Boedker after the year? It's an even salary swap and you add some really dangerous speed to your bottom-6.

 

[Turin]

I doubt they'd do this if Gudbranson plays well to end this year, but would you trade Gudbranson for Boedker after the year? It's an even salary swap and you add some really dangerous speed to your bottom-6.

I really don’t like Boedker. I’d wait and see on Gudbranson... which says a lot about how unimpressive Boedker is ES.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I really don’t like Boedker. I’d wait and see on Gudbranson... which says a lot about how unimpressive Boedker is ES.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Something to think about. Someone mentioned in the last thread that Maatta has a NMC that will be kicking in soon.

If that's accurate, it could really screw us in the expansion draft. We'd have to expose all of Rust, McCann, Simon, ZAR, Blueger, Petts, Horny, or anyone else we've added by then. Not to mention if guys like Angello, Lafferty, Johnson develop into anything of note. With Maatta gone, we could protect an additional 3F's or 1 additional D (Petts?).

Our best bet will still probably be to try to bribe Seattle but that isn't a sure thing.

 

[Peat]

Not really, you usually see 2-3 defenseman that would be upgrades on Maatta traded a year. It's more expensive than difficult.

I'm also in full support of moving Johnson for the same reason, so you can say the same thing about Johnson. Gudbranson is the only guy that doesn't apply to, because he's a RD and the others are LD.

Expensive is difficult for a team without many futures. Ideally for us any trade for a Maatta upgrade involves Maatta. That's difficult. Even if it doesn't, you've got to offer top price, hope they don't prefer the other team's offer anyway - assuming that the guy is getting moved solely for futures, and isn't in some big hockey trade involving players like Hamilton, as Hanifin was. And Hanifin was one of only two direct potential Maatta upgrades that moved this season.

Something to think about. Someone mentioned in the last thread that Maatta has a NMC that will be kicking in soon.

If that's accurate, it could really screw us in the expansion draft. We'd have to expose all of Rust, McCann, Simon, ZAR, Blueger, Petts, Horny, or anyone else we've added by then. Not to mention if guys like Angello, Lafferty, Johnson develop into anything of note. With Maatta gone, we could protect an additional 3F's or 1 additional D (Petts?).

Our best bet will still probably be to try to bribe Seattle but that isn't a sure thing.

If Seattle play this anything like Vegas did, all bribing them will accomplish is giving them more than you protected in the first place. Better to grit your teeth and accept it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Something to think about. Someone mentioned in the last thread that Maatta has a NMC that will be kicking in soon.

If that's accurate, it could really screw us in the expansion draft. We'd have to expose all of Rust, McCann, Simon, ZAR, Blueger, Petts, Horny, or anyone else we've added by then. Not to mention if guys like Angello, Lafferty, Johnson develop into anything of note. With Maatta gone, we could protect an additional 3F's or 1 additional D (Petts?).

Our best bet will still probably be to try to bribe Seattle but that isn't a sure thing.

No, Maatta only has an 8 team NTC starting in the 2020-2021 season. I imagine he's not even here by then, though.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

No, Maatta only has an 8 team NTC starting in the 2020-2021 season. I imagine he's not even here by then, though.

That makes much more sense than a NMC. Phil may be gone by then too.

I think Maatta will be gone, but if he is still here he might be a guy Seattle is interested in.

 

[MeinerEiner]

@mpp9 I don´t think Rutherford will take a run at Duchene. First thing he´ll do is to sort out the defense and decide if Kessel is being traded.

We need more young, fast Guys like McCann and Blueger. We don´t need any big names anymore. Bring in a lot of hungry players that want to win and play with more urgency in the regular season.

 

[Darren McCord]

I doubt they'd do this if Gudbranson plays well to end this year, but would you trade Gudbranson for Boedker after the year? It's an even salary swap and you add some really dangerous speed to your bottom-6.

Neither team does this.

Ottawa easily says no.
Boedker is only owed 1 million next year even with his cap hit at 4. Ottawa is cheap so that is exactly what they want. Cap hit keeps them near the floor and they dont have to pay much actual salary.

Pens say no because they cant afford a bottom 6 player making 4mill when they have 3 players making 3-4 in the bottom six already. Assuming one McCann or rust is in the top 6.

Mccan (Rust)
Bujs
Horny

Next year guys like Johnson, Dipauli, TB, Angello should make up the rest of the bottom 6 for cheap.

 

[Will Hunting]

Pens finally play well these last games. Obviously, Kessel is a non-factor in it. He is making it easy, even for dumb front office. Basically playing himself out of town. Seriously, it´s more likely that JJ has a good game than Kessel has, these days.

 

[Riptide]

New thread up... it is what it is for now, but next year we HAVE to figure out the defense. We cannot be paying Maatta/JJ/Gudbranson a **** load of money to play 5/6. Gotta figure it out.

Personally i'd move Maatta out for a couple picks (3rd/5th rounder) and utilize that money on speeeeeeeeeeeeeeed. Then i'd also find a way to only keep 1 of Gudbranson/JJ. However only 2 games in, so I 100% check back in on the Gudbranson thing once we see how he plays the rest of the year.

Unfortunately I don't think there's any other option - but we should be able to do a lot better than a 3rd+ for him. I don't think that Rutherford will move JJ or Gudbranson this summer. I think he could move both (and a lot easier then most think), but I don't think he will want to. It'll be really interesting to see how much he values Maatta vs the grit/physical game that JJ and Gudbranson provide.

@Soggy Biscuit
With regards to Bjugstad, while I agree he's not really providing much more production then Brassard was, what Bjugstad IS doing is what we wanted out of Brassard at the bare minimum. No we're not getting that "elite 3c" out of either, but at least Bjugstad is playing with heart and trying every shift, is being decent defensively and has managed to play to a draw in the GF/GA dept. For the cap savings we will need this summer I would try to do everything possible to keep him for now as I like the options he gives us with regards to a RHS C as well as playing either of him or McCann on the wing.

 

[Riptide]

I'd look at moving Maatta and Kessel in the summer. Get a bunch of picks and a few young players where possible. Gudbranson has been okay so far. Could run;

Dumo-Letang
Petterson-Schultz
Gubdranson-Johnson
Riikola

I think you'd have to run Johnson - Schultz and Pettersson - Gudbranson. The idea of JJ being the best PMD on his pairing scares me. Pettersson is usually more responsible with the puck, even if his PMD skills aren't all that different then JJs in terms of overall abilities.

As for Kessel, after his slump this season, I think I too would be looking very hard at our options on the market to see if there's something there that makes sense. Last summer JR was apparently talking to teams, but I imagine that he was looking for a slam dunk trade. Maybe he looks again, but lower's his expectations. I'm not saying trade him at all costs... but I'd be willing to take less for him this summer then what I would have wanted last summer.

 

[Riptide]

I would expect a top-9 option on an ELC for Maatta.

And where would they play? Our forward group is pretty full as it is. I'm not going to say no if we're talking about a really good prospect... but I wouldn't be getting one, just to get one. Move Maatta for a younger blueliner who's a little ways away, and a pick like what Montour got and move on.

Guentzel - Crosby - Hornqvist
Reese - Malkin - Kessel
McCann - Bjugstad - Rust
Simon - Blueger - XXXX

 

[Riptide]

Maatta doesn't have a spot here regardless, so whether they're trading Johnson or Gudbranson should be irrelevant to the discussion on trading Maatta.

Maatta would have a spot if Rutherford traded Johnson instead. I honestly think that it will come down to one of Johnson/Maatta this summer... but that with Letang and Dumoulin missing time, I don't think Rutherford would put much consideration at all into moving more than 1 blueliner unless he's getting another good one who's NHL ready back.

Dumoulin - Letang
Maatta/JJ - Schultz
Pettersson - Gudbranson

They should be trying to get an upgrade on the 2nd pair LD spot and having Pettersson as the 3rd pair LD. Maatta isn't good enough for me to be comfortable with the 2nd pair with him on it and he's too expensive to be the 3rd pair LD.

A) You not being comfortable with him on the 2nd pairing and him not "having a spot here regardless" are two very different things.
B) You might not like him as a 2nd pair D, but he's good enough to play that role and those minutes.

This more comes down to a you problem then one specifically related to Maatta or the roster. Yes we need to shed a blueliner and cap, and while Maatta or Johnson are the two most likely candidates, that doesn't mean that the other cannot play that #2LD role.

Something to think about. Someone mentioned in the last thread that Maatta has a NMC that will be kicking in soon.

They were wrong. He has an 8 team NTC that kicks in on July 1st 2020 - so 15 months from now. And honestly, even then him having an 8 team NTC isn't an issue. At that point (when it kicked in) he'd be 26 with 2 years left with a 4m cap hit. That's still extremely moveable.

 

[WayneSid9987]

If JR had any sense about him 2 of Olli, JJ, Guds are gone this summer no matter if Phil is traded or not.
You gotta gut the cash you're paying for a not very good D core.

And for the love of Pete, don't spend cash on the Grant's in FA'y just cuz you have $ to spend.

 

[Ugene Magic]

@mpp9 I don´t think Rutherford will take a run at Duchene. First thing he´ll do is to sort out the defense and decide if Kessel is being traded.

We need more young, fast Guys like McCann and Blueger. We don´t need any big names anymore. Bring in a lot of hungry players that want to win and play with more urgency in the regular season.

They have one in WBS.

Adam Johnson should be up, I know others think mid season next year, but he's been just fine up here too. What they are waiting on they allow guys with less skill/speed have regular positions now.

 

[Riptide]

2 games Shrimper! Of being adequate after years worth of posting some of the worst numbers in the league.

If his last 2 games is your version of being "adequate" then you'll never be happy with our blueline, regardless of who we have playing there. Sure our expectations of him after his time in Vancouver were very low (at least mine were), but he wasn't just "adequate" in his last two games, he was legitimately good. And if (big if) he keeps up this level of play for us, he would actually be well worth his contract/cap hit to us.