Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | Cap Details + Links in First Post | Phillin' Fine

[Peat]

Looking at JR's Hurricane teams, he's always prioritized PMD types and then he comes here and suddenly he's moved away from it? I don't buy that it's JR.

That seems like the kind of crap the Rangers and Bruins had..

That's an interesting thought. But we've also seen Rutherford get physicality his coach clearly didn't care for as well. So I dunno man.

Just as long as they find a direction that works and run with it this summer.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Glad that I'm not the only one who'd look for a PMD.

And as I said, I'm not going to hand-wring about the money spend on defense if we go into next year with:

Letang $7.3
XXX PMD $7
Schultz $5.5
Dumo $4.1
Guds $4
Petts $2.2
misc Ruh/Riks $1

For $31M. Guentzel and Crosby alone have surplus value of something like $10M compared to their contracts. So paying for a great expensive puck-moving D isn't a bad idea.

...I'd even take that $31M to $34M if a certain Swede indicated interest in our Penguins.

 

[66-30-33]

I'm down for whatever brings back that 2016 Pens team back. Wont have an HBK line tearing shit apart but everything else we can go after. We are getting more on the heavy side now. Not as fast but more heavy and will hit.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

That's an interesting thought. But we've also seen Rutherford get physicality his coach clearly didn't care for as well. So I dunno man.

Just as long as they find a direction that works and run with it this summer.

Maybe, maybe not.

He got Reaves, but Sullivan didn't like him for whatever reason. Then they got the version that you hide under the bargain bin version in Wilson and praise him like he's Craig Adams, I hope you get that hint.

Then they got Oleksiak and tried to turn him into an enforcer, he's a PMD, he's just a massive PMD is all. That failed when they couldn't turn him into something he wasn't - Again, not on Rutherford, but he got Oleksiak and he liked his game, Sullivan, Martin, and Gonchar some how saw some other shit.

Then we get Gudbranson kind of a Reaves type on defense if only because he's tough as nails. I've caught a fair share of Vegas games, Reaves is effective as f***. Oh and that I also used to watch him on the Blues. Try to find a way to watch the Vegas vs Stars games, Reaves is at his utmost best in those games, just absolutely wreaking havoc on them.

In any case, we've seen skill guys available either scratched or in the system and the grinder is the preferred call up.

That's a coaching decision.

 

[The GM]

Glad that I'm not the only one who'd look for a PMD.

And as I said, I'm not going to hand-wring about the money spend on defense if we go into next year with:

Letang $7.3
XXX PMD $7
Schultz $5.5
Dumo $4.1
Guds $4
Petts $2.2
misc Ruh/Riks $1

For $31M. Guentzel and Crosby alone have surplus value of something like $10M compared to their contracts. So paying for a great expensive puck-moving D isn't a bad idea.

...I'd even take that $31M to $34M if a certain Swede indicated interest in our Penguins.

I believe Douglas Murray has retired

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I honesty don’t see a huge difference between Gardiner and Maatta in terms of flaws. The only difference is Gardiner puts up 30 ES pts on the regular while Maatta does that in a really good season.

I hope you're just comparing production, because I think at the same cap hit, we'd all be bawling our eyes out if we dumped Olli and his replacement was Gardiner at the same cost.

Also, ES or PP pts, points are points. I don't care if he only has 40pts and they're all powerplay pts, cuz that still means he put up 40pts on the powerplay.

Then there's the skating difference, etc.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I honesty don’t see a huge difference between Gardiner and Maatta in terms of flaws. The only difference is Gardiner puts up 30 ES pts on the regular while Maatta does that in a really good season.

I'd rather deal with Gardiner's faults because he can actually skate. I just think that's always going to limit what Maatta can be, whereas I think Gardiner's "upside" if he can cut down on brainfarts is so, so much higher due to his physical ability.

 

[Peat]

Maybe, maybe not.

He got Reaves, but Sullivan didn't like him for whatever reason. Then they got the version that you hide under the bargain bin version in Wilson and praise him like he's Craig Adams, I hope you get that hint.

Then they got Oleksiak and tried to turn him into an enforcer, he's a PMD, he's just a massive PMD is all. That failed when they couldn't turn him into something he wasn't - Again, not on Rutherford, but he got Oleksiak and he liked his game, Sullivan, Martin, and Gonchar some how saw some other ****.

Then we get Gudbranson kind of a Reaves type on defense if only because he's tough as nails. I've caught a fair share of Vegas games, Reaves is effective as ****. Oh and that I also used to watch him on the Blues. Try to find a way to watch the Vegas vs Stars games, Reaves is at his utmost best in those games, just absolutely wreaking havoc on them.

In any case, we've seen skill guys available either scratched or in the system and the grinder is the preferred call up.

That's a coaching decision.

Man, I really can't agree on Oleksiak being a PMD. His puck moving was one of his biggest weaknesses. Great attacking skillset other than that, but the moment you asked him to make his own outlet passes you began to understand why he hadn't took in Dallas.

Not that said weakness would be an issue right now. He'd be perfect for his super collapsed defence and his shot would make a huge difference.

In any case, I think you're jumping to a big conclusion if you think Rutherford got Oleksiak solely for his attacking skillset and not the fact he was huge and willing to fight. I don't recall there being anything in the quotes that backs that up. And I don't think it makes a huge amount of sense that Sully and the rest of the coaches suddenly went from hating enforcers to loving them.

I do remember that Rutherford talked up Johnson's outlet pass when we got him. The simplest explanation seems to me that we're suffering from a spectacular failure in talent identification.

 

[Riptide]

I hope you're just comparing production, because I think at the same cap hit, we'd all be bawling our eyes out if we dumped Olli and his replacement was Gardiner at the same cost.

Also, ES or PP pts, points are points. I don't care if he only has 40pts and they're all powerplay pts, cuz that still means he put up 40pts on the powerplay.

Then there's the skating difference, etc.

The difference between them is the fact that wouldn't be getting the chance to put up 40PP points here because they wouldn't get that much prime PP time. That said, if you're capable of putting up 40PP points as a blueliner, odds are you should be good for 30 or so at ES. The biggest issue is that getting someone who's capable of putting up 30+ points at ES is probably going to cost you 5-7m in FA.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If we were to move Kessel (and it'd have to be a great deal for me to even consider it), I'd like to take a flier on Eberle next season. Similar to Kessel in being an offense-only RH winger, but younger and might be more adaptable to our centers - he killed it with Crosby in the 2015 WCs, and he can process the game at Sid and Jake's level. He's also been good to score on pace for 50+ points virtually every year of his career before this season.

Might be able to pick him up on a bargain short-term contract. Think Eric Staal after his bad NYR run.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Maybe, maybe not.

He got Reaves, but Sullivan didn't like him for whatever reason. Then they got the version that you hide under the bargain bin version in Wilson and praise him like he's Craig Adams, I hope you get that hint.

Then they got Oleksiak and tried to turn him into an enforcer, he's a PMD, he's just a massive PMD is all. That failed when they couldn't turn him into something he wasn't - Again, not on Rutherford, but he got Oleksiak and he liked his game, Sullivan, Martin, and Gonchar some how saw some other ****.

Then we get Gudbranson kind of a Reaves type on defense if only because he's tough as nails. I've caught a fair share of Vegas games, Reaves is effective as ****. Oh and that I also used to watch him on the Blues. Try to find a way to watch the Vegas vs Stars games, Reaves is at his utmost best in those games, just absolutely wreaking havoc on them.

In any case, we've seen skill guys available either scratched or in the system and the grinder is the preferred call up.

That's a coaching decision.

My dislike of Sully started with his treatment of Reaves/Kuhn/Rowney

 

[Riptide]

If we were to move Kessel (and it'd have to be a great deal for me to even consider it), I'd like to take a flier on Eberle next season. Similar to Kessel in being an offense-only RH winger, but younger and might be more adaptable to our centers - he killed it with Crosby in the 2015 WCs, and he can process the game at Sid and Jake's level. He's also been good to score on pace for 50+ points virtually every year of his career before this season.

Might be able to pick him up on a bargain short-term contract. Think Eric Staal after his bad NYR run.

I mean if you could sign him for a 2-3 year deal at less than 4m, then yeah I'd probably consider the idea. I'm just not sure how realistic that is. I'm also not sure how realistic it is that we could move Kessel (and get a half decent return) without taking salary back. Because while Eberle is going to finish the season with less than 18 goals and less than 35 points, he had 25g/59pts just last season with NYI and was a consistent 20g/50pt+ guy in Edmonton. Pretty sure someone would offer him more money then we would.

The other thing is the timing. We would pretty much have to make a decision to move Kessel before July 1st, and then have already talked to Eberle and gotten some sort of confirmation that he'd sign a deal here. Then you'd actually have to get Kessel traded. Even if you had talked to GMs before the draft, that's not a lot of time to get Eberle to agree to come here and to work out a deal to move Kessel.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I mean if you could sign him for a 2-3 year deal at less than 4m, then yeah I'd probably consider the idea. I'm just not sure how realistic that is. I'm also not sure how realistic it is that we could move Kessel (and get a half decent return) without taking salary back. Because while Eberle is going to finish the season with less than 18 goals and less than 35 points, he had 25g/59pts just last season with NYI and was a consistent 20g/50pt+ guy in Edmonton. Pretty sure someone would offer him more money then we would.

The other thing is the timing. We would pretty much have to make a decision to move Kessel before July 1st, and then have already talked to Eberle and gotten some sort of confirmation that he'd sign a deal here. Then you'd actually have to get Kessel traded. Even if you had talked to GMs before the draft, that's not a lot of time to get Eberle to agree to come here and to work out a deal to move Kessel.

I don't think we'd necessarily have to move Kessel first. You can go over the cap in the off-season.

A short deal in the 4-5 mil range should be fine for Eberle. He's got a consistent track record of production and for all the talk about Skinner - who I really like - Eberle had as good or better production prior to this year, when Skinner was with Eichel and Reinhart and Eberle was with Nelson and Lee.

 

[Peat]

I don't think we'd necessarily have to move Kessel first. You can go over the cap in the off-season.

A short deal in the 4-5 mil range should be fine for Eberle. He's got a consistent track record of production and for all the talk about Skinner - who I really like - Eberle had as good or better production prior to this year, when Skinner was with Eichel and Reinhart and Eberle was with Nelson and Lee.

Why is he only getting 4-5m then?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Why is he only getting 4-5m then?

He's had an unproductive season and it's short term, like Staal in 2016...except Eberle doesn't have the same benefit of previous playoff performance.

Not saying 4-5 mil is necessarily what he'd get, but I'd be comfortable giving him that kind of money if we moved on from Kessel.

 

[JackFr]

Maybe, maybe not.

He got Reaves, but Sullivan didn't like him for whatever reason. Then they got the version that you hide under the bargain bin version in Wilson and praise him like he's Craig Adams, I hope you get that hint.

.

Because Reaves was horrifically terrible for us. Wilson has been significantly better this season than Reaves was last year.

We can complain about plenty with Sullivan but not playing an overrated garbage 4th liner is not it.

 

[Tom Hanks]

If we were to move Kessel (and it'd have to be a great deal for me to even consider it), I'd like to take a flier on Eberle next season. Similar to Kessel in being an offense-only RH winger, but younger and might be more adaptable to our centers - he killed it with Crosby in the 2015 WCs, and he can process the game at Sid and Jake's level. He's also been good to score on pace for 50+ points virtually every year of his career before this season.

Might be able to pick him up on a bargain short-term contract. Think Eric Staal after his bad NYR run.

I wouldn’t be going after him. His defensive play doesn’t seem too great and his production is pretty low considering who he’s played with most of the year Nelson, Barzal, Lee most of the time and scoring goes up when they are away for him. I think you could get a better all round player for similar money. Plus GM’s are stupid someone will pay him on a 5/6 year deal probably 5 mil +AAV.

Sid’s line is pretty set with Rust on his line. He’s Sid’s favourite then there is McCann and Simon (Hornqvist in the post season if needed). I’d actually be trying to get a winger for Malkin probably a LW that would be a good match with Malkin-Hornqvist.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I wouldn’t be going after him. His defensive play doesn’t seem too great and his production is pretty low considering who he’s played with most of the year Nelson, Barzal, Lee most of the time and scoring goes up when they are away for him. I think you could get a better all round player for similar money. Plus GM’s are stupid someone will pay him on a 5/6 year deal probably 5 mil +AAV.

Sid’s line is pretty set with Rust on his line. He’s Sid’s favourite then there is McCann and Simon (Hornqvist in the post season if needed). I’d actually be trying to get a winger for Malkin probably a LW that would be a good match with Malkin-Hornqvist.

His most consistent linemates by far this year have been Nelson and Lee, and while fine players in their own right, I don't think anyone would consider them ideal linemates for Eberle. We could get a more well-rounded player for 4-5 mil, but if we were moving Kessel I'd hope that replacing his offense would remain a priority. Based on his history, he'd be a good buy low candidate.

If somebody offered him 5+ mil on a 5/6 year deal like you say, then yeah, I'd bow out.

If the Pens were to use Horny in a top 6 role again, then an LW like Skinner or Saad would probably be preferable, but I'd have to be confident we could replace Kessel's role on the PP too.

 

[JackFr]

Just to quantify the "Garrett Wilson is better than Reaves was and is giving us everything we could ask for from a 4th liner"...

Wilson has been given approximately the same amount of ice time as Reaves - but him and his line have been started in the defensive zone an insane proportion of the time. Despite that, he's been an even possession player, which is pretty nuts. His poor production is actually decent considering the minutes he gets, and a step better than what Reaves was giving us. Finally, he draws penalties like crazy, unlike Reaves who took them at an insane rate.

Reaves was given more slightly more 5 on 5 time, even zone starts, and managed to be a major possession drag while not producing at even a 4th line rate and taking over twice the penalties he drew.

It's not even a competition. Wilson has been - shockingly - a really great fourth liner for us this year. Reaves was absolutely terrible for us. Wilson is not Adams 2.0 by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Eberle strikes me as one of those players that will be looking for a payday and beyond that not give a rats arse. Same could possibly be said about Nyquist.

See James Neal.

 

[Andy99]

I wouldn’t be going after him. His defensive play doesn’t seem too great and his production is pretty low considering who he’s played with most of the year Nelson, Barzal, Lee most of the time and scoring goes up when they are away for him. I think you could get a better all round player for similar money. Plus GM’s are stupid someone will pay him on a 5/6 year deal probably 5 mil +AAV.

Sid’s line is pretty set with Rust on his line. He’s Sid’s favourite then there is McCann and Simon (Hornqvist in the post season if needed). I’d actually be trying to get a winger for Malkin probably a LW that would be a good match with Malkin-Hornqvist.

If the 2L LW is playing with Horny on the other side, he’s going to need to be able to help G carry the puck into the O zone and finish when he gets a shot...going to have to be a really good player like Skinner

 

[Tom Hanks]

If the 2L LW is playing with Horny on the other side, he’s going to need to be able to help G carry the puck into the O zone and finish when he gets a shot...going to have to be a really good player like Skinner

Not necessarily yeah some skill for sure but a good forechecker will be helpful too. Dumping it in is perfectly fine with Horny and another good forechecker. That’ll help Malkin’s body and he’ll get space hanging back. He’s had trouble adjusting to D being quicker and zoning better this season. So being more willing to dump it in especially if he has two good wingers to handle that stuff saves his body and puts him more in the shooting position.

Hornqvist who isn’t a great playmaker is actually really good with passing off the boards in those puck battles (which he’ll win more often than not). Which is kind of bizarre in some ways but maybe his brain gets off on the chaos like in front of the net.

 

[chethejet]

Pens move Olli and Kessel for not only cap room, but to deal for strength on D and get a better fit for RW two way player. My hope is Nashville sees a need for that gritty RW who they know and appreciate. If I were GM, I move Kessel as his expiration date here is hit. He is not a good fit for two centers who need better two way play that a forward who is a liability on D. Kessel to the AVs for their first round pick and D prospect. Horny to the Preds for Jarnkrok and Bonino to make the money work and send Olli and Bonino to Vancouver for at least a 2nd and RW Leivo. go into next year with three picks in top 45 and the following:
Jake Sid Rust 18 million
Reese Geno Jarnkrok 13 million
McCann Bjugs Leivo 8 million
Wilson Blueger ? 2 million

Dumo Letang 11.5 million
JJ Schultz 8.75 million
Petts Gudbranson 5.5 million
Total cap hit 72 million with Murray and Desmith.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Because Reaves was horrifically terrible for us. Wilson has been significantly better this season than Reaves was last year.

We can complain about plenty with Sullivan but not playing an overrated garbage 4th liner is not it.

Wilson is crap.

Reaves was good with Kuhnhackl and Sheahan and he kept breaking them up only to prove some idiotic point.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

My dislike of Sully started with his treatment of Reaves/Kuhn/Rowney

Ian Cole.