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[Riptide]

Just looking at teams that could use Brass:

For Sure:
CGY
CBJ
DET
MTL
WPG

The Maybe's:
ARI
CAR
EDM
NJ
STL
VAN
OTT

You can scratch those guys from the list, because the one thing they don't need is centers.

And given where Carolina, St Louis, Ottawa & Detroit are in the standings... odds are they won't be interested in him either.

The biggest issue isn't whether there'll be a market for him... it's if we can get anything other than futures for him. Because trying to get those futures, then flipping them for another center is always a gamble due to the time crunch at/near the TD.

 

[EightyOne]

Considering the other options, is it really that mind boggling? It's not like we're Nashville and the coaches are playing him ahead of Josi, Subban, Ekholm or Ellis.

He's just getting a lot of air time out there.

Johnson is bad bad bad. Pettersson can't play right side I guess?

So yeah, by default he's up there.

 

[Riptide]

Brassard should only be moved if we miss the playoffs. Otherwise if Letang is healthy you try and make a run.

Given his recent play and overall fit since acquiring him, I'd move him long before that.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Given his recent play and overall fit since acquiring him, I'd move him long before that.

but we're almost certainly a better team this year with him than we will be if we trade him.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Given his recent play and overall fit since acquiring him, I'd move him long before that.

And who would you use as 3C? Bad fit or not, this team's got a better shot at the Cup with Brassard as the 3C than any of our current 3C options.

 

[Riptide]

If JR trades Brassard, he better have a side deal worked out to acquire a center. We will have no shot with Cullen, Grant or Sheahan playing prime minutes.

Seems to be a pretty similar comment to "we have no shot with that blueline without Letang".

The issue last season (at least in terms of our 3c) wasn't who our actual 3c was, but that we had no competent 4c. Rutherford didn't need to go get Brassard vs getting any competent 3/4c to bolster our overall center depth. He choose to go for overkill (and I don't begrudge him for that), but it hasn't been working out. So it's time to change things up. I'm not sure what that looks like... but if our 3c is playing like Sheahan was last season down the stretch before the TD, I'd be pretty damn happy about it.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Seems to be a pretty similar comment to "we have no shot with that blueline without Letang".

The issue last season (at least in terms of our 3c) wasn't who our actual 3c was, but that we had no competent 4c. Rutherford didn't need to go get Brassard vs getting any competent 3/4c to bolster our overall center depth. He choose to go for overkill (and I don't begrudge him for that), but it hasn't been working out. So it's time to change things up. I'm not sure what that looks like... but if our 3c is playing like Sheahan was last season down the stretch before the TD, I'd be pretty damn happy about it.

Brassard is doing that already. And we know he has upside to be better.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Brassard is doing that already. And we know he has upside to be better.

Brassard doesn't bring any of the defense that Sheahan brought and he's not even producing as much as Sheahan did last year. Brassard has 9 points in 23 games this year, which is a pace of 32 points per 82 games. Sheahan had 32 points in 73 games last season.

That's the worst part about the Brassard acquisition, he's not even outplaying what the Penguins got out of Sheahan last year.

 

[Riptide]

The increased scope of responsibility for Oleksiak is mind boggling.

And I'm mostly a fan of his.

But second pair with ****ing Maatta??? Who babysits who?

Maatta and Dumoulin (as LD) are the only two guys we have who are sound defensively and can move the puck reasonably well. Which is what Oleksiak needs. His passing skills blow ass, as does his defensive game. So he needs a partner who's reasonably strong there to cover for him. Maatta can do that.

 

[PensandCaps]

It's not like Brassard is really doing much to hate him. He is what Sheahan was doing last year. He's not hurting you.

People just have a higher bar for him as opposed to Sheahan.

Idk about you guys, But I'll take the gamble on a proven top 6 C to figure it out eventually.

 

[Gurglesons]

Seems to be a pretty similar comment to "we have no shot with that blueline without Letang".

The issue last season (at least in terms of our 3c) wasn't who our actual 3c was, but that we had no competent 4c. Rutherford didn't need to go get Brassard vs getting any competent 3/4c to bolster our overall center depth. He choose to go for overkill (and I don't begrudge him for that), but it hasn't been working out. So it's time to change things up. I'm not sure what that looks like... but if our 3c is playing like Sheahan was last season down the stretch before the TD, I'd be pretty damn happy about it.

Our PK and 4th line when healthy can potentially have 3 4Cs on it. The record when Malkin, Crosby and Brassard are all in the line-up this year is 13-3-4.

Moving Brassard would be asinine..

Someone crunched the numbers on the bottom six a week ago.

They have a goals for per 60 of 2.75. Goals against per 60 of 2.57 and their goal differential is positive when Crosby, Malkin and Brassard are in the line-up.

When he isn't in the line-up it goes to Goals for per 50 of 1.04. Goals against per 60 of 3.11 and a goal differential of -8.

Brassard is doing exactly what he was brought in. People are just watching games and saying he "isn't a fit" for reasons beyond me.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's not like Brassard is really doing much to hate him. He is what Sheahan was doing last year. He's not hurting you.

People just have a higher bar for him as opposed to Sheahan.

Idk about you guys, But I'll take the gamble on a proven top 6 C to figure it out eventually.

He is what Sheahan was last year if you take away Sheahan's defense, and they paid a 1st rounder and a good prospect for that.

 

[PensandCaps]

Brassard doesn't bring any of the defense that Sheahan brought and he's not even producing as much as Sheahan did last year. Brassard has 9 points in 23 games this year, which is a pace of 32 points per 82 games. Sheahan had 32 points in 73 games last season.

That's the worst part about the Brassard acquisition, he's not even outplaying what the Penguins got out of Sheahan last year.

I'd say Brassard brings defense that Sheahan brings. Sure he may have a few TOs here and there but that is because he is a more skilled player. But I haven't noticed Brassard being some kind of liability....


He is doing well in the faceoff circle, he is a smart player, i say he does bring some defense 5v5.

He just doesn't PK like Sheahan does. Overall Sheahan is the better defensive player no doubt but Brassard isn't bad away from the puck.

 

[Riptide]

Brassard is doing that already. And we know he has upside to be better.

Sure... but we're now at a 50 game sample size for Brassard. At what point do you cut bait because the fit just isn't working?

As was pointed out already... Brassard was a distant 12th in EVTOI lastnight, and tied for 12th in total TOI with Wilson. At some point fit and actual ability need to be taken into account vs "potential" or "upside". Because regardless of his abilities, if this is what we're going to get... cut bait and find someone else. in the meantime we have options internally - just pray that Crosby and Malkin stay healthy.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd say Brassard brings defense that Sheahan brings. Sure he may have a few TOs here and there but that is because he is a more skilled player. But I haven't noticed Brassard being some kind of liability....


He is doing well in the faceoff circle, he is a smart player, i say he does bring some defense 5v5.

He just doesn't PK like Sheahan does. Overall Sheahan is the better defensive player no doubt but Brassard isn't bad away from the puck.

Brassard is only at 47.1% with faceoffs, Sheahan was at 54.4% last year. Sheahan got much tougher minutes than Brassard did, and he didn't get the benefit of putting up points with Crosby like Brassard has. Brassard doesn't kill penalties, can't handle the heavy defensive minutes that Sheahan got, has worse shot suppression numbers and is way worse with faceoffs. He's nothing close to Sheahan defensively.

 

[PensandCaps]

Brassard is only at 47.1% with faceoffs, Sheahan was at 54.4% last year. Sheahan got much tougher minutes than Brassard did, and he didn't get the benefit of putting up points with Crosby like Brassard has. Brassard doesn't kill penalties, can't handle the heavy defensive minutes that Sheahan got, has worse shot suppression numbers and is way worse with faceoffs. He's nothing close to Sheahan defensively.

Meh. I think they're pretty close.

Brassard was apart of that Ottawa team. Idk what his assignments were but i assume he got tough mins the past two seasons.

Sheahan is no selke candidate. He's just bit better than okay at defense. Like Brassard.

 

[Gurglesons]

Brassard is only at 47.1% with faceoffs, Sheahan was at 54.4% last year. Sheahan got much tougher minutes than Brassard did, and he didn't get the benefit of putting up points with Crosby like Brassard has. Brassard doesn't kill penalties, can't handle the heavy defensive minutes that Sheahan got, has worse shot suppression numbers and is way worse with faceoffs. He's nothing close to Sheahan defensively.

Brassard has also played a couple games with Kessel and literally none with Jake. So let's dial back the Sheahan was good offensively talk.

Sheahan also definitely got shifts with both Sid and Geno, much like this year.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sure... but we're now at a 50 game sample size for Brassard. At what point do you cut bait because the fit just isn't working?

As was pointed out already... Brassard was a distant 12th in EVTOI lastnight, and tied for 12th in total TOI with Wilson. At some point fit and actual ability need to be taken into account vs "potential" or "upside". Because regardless of his abilities, if this is what we're going to get... cut bait and find someone else. in the meantime we have options internally - just pray that Crosby and Malkin stay healthy.

13-3-4 when Brassard, Sid, and Malkin are in the line-up.

17 points in 37 games. If you are taking playoffs into consideration, I think that is silly. He was clearly hobbled.

Even then it is 21 in 49. Which is still a 35 point pace. And like you said that is with Brassard not looking like a fit. Imagine if he clicks once our forwards are healthy like he generally has.

 

[Gurglesons]

Maatta and Dumoulin (as LD) are the only two guys we have who are sound defensively and can move the puck reasonably well. Which is what Oleksiak needs. His passing skills blow ass, as does his defensive game. So he needs a partner who's reasonably strong there to cover for him. Maatta can do that.

I usually agree with you Rip, but trying to defend the Maatta - Oleksiak pairing is just straight up trash. They are absolutely terrible together by every metric from the eye test, to GAs to the dreams I have about them that haunt me every night.

 

[Andy99]

Maatta and Dumoulin (as LD) are the only two guys we have who are sound defensively and can move the puck reasonably well. Which is what Oleksiak needs. His passing skills blow ass, as does his defensive game. So he needs a partner who's reasonably strong there to cover for him. Maatta can do that.

Or maybe we don’t play Olek so we don’t have to cover for him...What’s wrong with Maatta-Riikola when Letang returns?

 

[PensandCaps]

I just don't get how Brassard could produce well in a very defensive first system but struggle to produce here? Lesser linemates and ice time i get, but he doesn't look like a top 6 C here.

And it wasn't like he needed PP time to produce in Ottawa. He barley got any points on the PP last year(6)and still had 46 points in 72 games.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

TBH since Letang is day to day makes me feel like he might not out that long. I still have concerns about Rig, Maatta, JJ.
Brass hasn't produced quite as much as he has historically but the team is better when he plays.
One way or another the Pens really miss Schultz .

 

[Gurglesons]

TBH since Letang is day to day makes me feel like he might not out that long. I still have concerns about Rig, Maatta, JJ.
Brass hasn't produced quite as much as he has historically but the team is better when he plays.
One way or another the Pens really miss Schultz .

I would not be surprised if Brassard is still dealing with a nagging injury. He looks explosive some nights and then absolutely hobbled some nights and his ice time is all over the place. Will play 18-20 minutes then 10.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I just don't get how Brassard could produce well in a very defensive first system but struggle to produce here? Lesser linemates and ice time i get, but he doesn't look like a top 6 C here.

And it wasn't like he needed PP time to produce in Ottawa. He barley got any points on the PP last year(6)and still had 46 points in 72 games.

playing with top line wings and playing your teams top offensive role helps look like a top 6 center. We're playing him like a 3C, so he looks more like a 3C.

Brassard doesn't bring any of the defense that Sheahan brought and he's not even producing as much as Sheahan did last year. Brassard has 9 points in 23 games this year, which is a pace of 32 points per 82 games. Sheahan had 32 points in 73 games last season.

That's the worst part about the Brassard acquisition, he's not even outplaying what the Penguins got out of Sheahan last year.

Sheahan also got to play with Kessel a lot more last year than Brass has this year. Sheahan's most common line last year was Kessel and Guentzel. Brassard looked good with Sid and Jake too. And he was scoring when Kessel was on his line.

I'll worry about Brassard when he has two legitimate 3rd line wings and still struggles. Rust coming back in to form is huge, now we need Horny and/or Simon back.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Sure... but we're now at a 50 game sample size for Brassard. At what point do you cut bait because the fit just isn't working?

As was pointed out already... Brassard was a distant 12th in EVTOI lastnight, and tied for 12th in total TOI with Wilson. At some point fit and actual ability need to be taken into account vs "potential" or "upside". Because regardless of his abilities, if this is what we're going to get... cut bait and find someone else. in the meantime we have options internally - just pray that Crosby and Malkin stay healthy.

So do you think he's actively hurting us or just helping less than we'd like? My point is that if we trade him, we're almost certainly going to be worse than we are right now. Brassard is a better 3C than Sheahan, Grant, or Cullen. So we would HAVE to bring back another 3C. But the teams who would be interested in him mid-season as a UFA are not going to be sending an equal 3C back.