Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building (Cap Details in First Post) | Roster Freeze Ends 12:01am Dec 28

[Will Hunting]

I'd rather have today's Orpik than today's Johnson. Eeeep.

And both are still better than Maatta.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd rather have today's Orpik than today's Johnson. Eeeep.

You're allowed to have whatever opinion you want, but opinions can be wrong

 

[EightyOne]

I'm just confused why you say Johnson is Orpik 2.0

That's selling Orpik way short.

I get by the end of his tenure everyone wanted him gone, but for a long time he was effective in his role.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Orpik was horrible by the end of his time with the Penguins in the same ways that Johnson is currently horrible. Both guys were just physical PKers that were solid skaters at that point, they were bad ES players. Any advantage that Orpik has defensively is probably negated out by Orpik's non-existent offense. It's really not selling Orpik short.

In Orpik's last 2 years with the Penguins, he had 2 goals and 21 points in 118 games and had a -6.1% CF%Rel. All he provided at that point was physicality and PKing ability, along with decent skating. Johnson this year has 1 goal and 8 points in 33 games, which prorates to 4 goals and 29 points in 118 games, and has a -6.1% CF%Rel. All he provides at this point is physicality and PKing ability, along with decent skating. I feel like it's a perfectly appropriate comparison, saying it's off or saying Johnson is way worse is inaccurate of what Orpik was at that point.

Statistically, they're basically the same player. Watching them yields slight differences, but it's nothing that is enough for me to not stick by that comparison.

 

[TimmyD]

According to a snip it that I saw from the Athletic (I’m not subscribed so I can’t see the full article) “Mike Sullivan has a hammer and is threatening to drop it on the Penguins.” I wonder if that hammer consists of him sitting down with JR and saying “we need less guys like Phil and Brass, give me more guys like ZAR and Wilson because they just play the game the right way.”

 

[Peat]

Bad, they've been connected to Hayes from the Rangers for a good reason.

So two of the three teams scouting us most heavily are probably looking at Brassard. I can't see much I'm coveting that I expect to be available on Colorado's roster mind.

 

[Will Hunting]

According to a snip it that I saw from the Athletic (I’m not subscribed so I can’t see the full article) “Mike Sullivan has a hammer and is threatening to drop it on the Penguins.” I wonder if that hammer consists of him sitting down with JR and saying “we need less guys like Phil and Brass, give me more guys like ZAR and Wilson because they just play the game the right way.”

He´s dropped some. For example Sprong or Riikola.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

According to a snip it that I saw from the Athletic (I’m not subscribed so I can’t see the full article) “Mike Sullivan has a hammer and is threatening to drop it on the Penguins.” I wonder if that hammer consists of him sitting down with JR and saying “we need less guys like Phil and Brass, give me more guys like ZAR and Wilson because they just play the game the right way.”

He better have a good game plan if that happens and he better hope the team ends up playing a boring game like the Devils from the 90's early 2000 if he wants to have any chance to win

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

So two of the three teams scouting us most heavily are probably looking at Brassard. I can't see much I'm coveting that I expect to be available on Colorado's roster mind.

At this point I think if we can get anything great out of Brassard in a trade it's probably time to let him go.
It's just doesn't work with him IMO, cash in on a good return and use it on something else

 

[Empoleon8771]

So two of the three teams scouting us most heavily are probably looking at Brassard. I can't see much I'm coveting that I expect to be available on Colorado's roster mind.

Soderberg would be an interesting target, but I'm not sure how you'd make the money work out with that. I definitely think Soderberg fits the "offensive 2C for defensive 3C" swap criteria, but I just don't know how that trade would work with cap (or what the Penguins would have to add on top of Brassard).

Maybe Maatta and Brassard for Soderberg and Zadorov? Just throwing out some names that may fit the idea. That's pretty much an even cap swap I believe, the Penguins have been linked to Soderberg in the past (not by anyone super legit, but by guys on Mackey's caliber) and Zadorov was rumored to be available earlier in the year. I don't like Zadorov much, but that's about on par with the kind of moves I expect JR to make with this defense at this point.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Soderberg would be an interesting target, but I'm not sure how you'd make the money work out with that. I definitely think Soderberg fits the "offensive 2C for defensive 3C" swap criteria, but I just don't know how that trade would work with cap (or what the Penguins would have to add on top of Brassard).

Maybe Maatta and Brassard for Soderberg and Zadorov? Just throwing out some names that may fit the idea. That's pretty much an even cap swap I believe, the Penguins have been linked to Soderberg in the past (not by anyone super legit, but by guys on Mackey's caliber) and Zadorov was rumored to be available earlier in the year. I don't like Zadorov much, but that's about on par with the kind of moves I expect JR to make with this defense at this point.

Or they have the Avs retain some money on Soderberg if they want to move him
I could see something around those players work out

 

[EightyOne]

According to a snip it that I saw from the Athletic (I’m not subscribed so I can’t see the full article) “Mike Sullivan has a hammer and is threatening to drop it on the Penguins.” I wonder if that hammer consists of him sitting down with JR and saying “we need less guys like Phil and Brass, give me more guys like ZAR and Wilson because they just play the game the right way.”

He better be careful with that hammer.

He's already on thin ice.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Or they have the Avs retain some money on Soderberg if they want to move him
I could see something around those players work out

I don't think they "want" to move him, though, I think they just want an upgrade at center. It looks like they just don't have a 2C more than anything, I feel like both Landeskog (who has done surprisingly well with faceoffs) and Kerfoot have both spent time as the 2C. I think their current 2C is Compher. They're probably looking at getting Hayes for futures, so if the Penguins were willing to go down that route, it might be something worthwhile.

I think you might be able to do Brassard+ for Soderberg, but I wouldn't say it's anything more than "might". The interesting thing is that I think Compher projected to be a 2-way player in the NHL, so they may be comfortable with him as a defensive 3C and having Brassard as the 2C. In that case, I think they may trade Soderberg in a Brassard trade.

 

[Pete Gas]

Maybe the hammer should drop on Sullivan and some of his lineup decisions

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I don't think they "want" to move him, though, I think they just want an upgrade at center. It looks like they just don't have a 2C more than anything, I feel like both Landeskog (who has done surprisingly well with faceoffs) and Kerfoot have both spent time as the 2C. I think their current 2C is Compher. They're probably looking at getting Hayes for futures, so if the Penguins were willing to go down that route, it might be something worthwhile.

I think you might be able to do Brassard+ for Soderberg, but I wouldn't say it's anything more than "might". The interesting thing is that I think Compher projected to be a 2-way player in the NHL, so they may be comfortable with him as a defensive 3C and having Brassard as the 2C. In that case, I think they may trade Soderberg in a Brassard trade.

Maybe it's just me but I would expect more than just Soderberg in a trade for Brassard.
We paid so much to acquire him
If that's the case, trade Brassard to the highest bidder, perhaps the Jets

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Maybe the hammer should drop on Sullivan and some of his lineup decisions

I really don't see it happening during the season, maybe if we miss the playoffs

 

[Pens x]

Can Rutherford just lay the hammer down on Sullivan yet??? That is all I want for Xmas, gramps.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Soderberg for Pouliot was a common proposal that was accepted by both sides on these forums last season.

Now that Soderberg has had a revival (and so has that team), he'll definitely cost more than a young, "meh" NHL player. And like mentioned, maybe they'd have interest in a more offensive oriented center -- a la Brassard.

Need to make that money (and perhaps contracts) work, though. If I were Brassard, I'd consider signing with the Avs.

CC @Empoleon8771


Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Pearson-Malkin-Simon
Rust-Soderberg-Kessel
Cullen-Sheahan-ZAR
(or something like that)

Dumoulin-Letang
Martinez-Schultz
Pettersson/Riikola/Johnson
Ruhwedel

I can dream.

 

[domaug]

Soderberg for Pouliot was a common proposal that was accepted by both sides on these forums last season.

Now that Soderberg has had a revival (and so has that team), he'll definitely cost more than a young, "meh" NHL player. And like mentioned, maybe they'd have interest in a more offensive oriented center -- a la Brassard.

Need to make that money (and perhaps contracts) work, though. If I were Brassard, I'd consider signing with the Avs.

CC @Empoleon8771


Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Pearson-Malkin-Simon
Rust-Soderberg-Kessel
Cullen-Sheahan-ZAR
(or something like that)

Dumoulin-Letang
Martinez-Schultz
Pettersson/Riikola/Johnson
Ruhwedel

I can dream.

how did the Pens get Martinez? trade Maatta for him?

 

[Randy Butternubs]

how did the Pens get Martinez? trade Maatta for him?

Yeah. That. Or maybe I went out to LA to abduct AMart.

[edit]
Brassard(+?) for Soderberg
Maatta(+?) for Martinez(+?)
Oleksiak for picks/prospects

 

[billybudd]

He was doing the classic Brooks Orpik play of trying to hammer a guy at the blue line. I actually don't blame him much on that play, Maatta played that gap way too loose and Rust didn't pick someone up coming back. I don't have a problem with Johnson stepping up there if someone steps back and covers for him, Rust didn't do that.

I feel like if people just view Johnson as Orpik 2.0, it becomes significantly easier to deal with him. You know what you'll have to deal with if you just view him that way.



Bad, they've been connected to Hayes from the Rangers for a good reason.

If Rust was on the right wing, he didn't pick his guy up because he saw Jack Johnson barreling towards his face. Whoever that was on the right initially had his guy and pulled up to keep from getting killed by Johnson.

 

[billybudd]

I'm just confused why you say Johnson is Orpik 2.0

That's selling Orpik way short.

I get by the end of his tenure everyone wanted him gone, but for a long time he was effective in his role.

#1 Orpik hater here. He was never as bad as Johnson in this uniform. More violent towards his own goaltender, though, and definitely a more annoying quote.

 

[Riptide]

Okay then. But. Dude.

If you are going to give credit to the coach and players for success...

Then you HAVE to give them criticism for when they fail.

Yes, but that criticism doesn't automatically jump from "you're wrong/making a mistake" to "you're fired". The grass isn't always greener elsewhere.

 

[Riptide]

According to a snip it that I saw from the Athletic (I’m not subscribed so I can’t see the full article) “Mike Sullivan has a hammer and is threatening to drop it on the Penguins.” I wonder if that hammer consists of him sitting down with JR and saying “we need less guys like Phil and Brass, give me more guys like ZAR and Wilson because they just play the game the right way.”

He's threatening to use icetime as a hammer. Says they won't like to use that and would rather the players take ownership for their own games. The article pointed to Guentzel getting 4 minutes TOI in the 2nd after he gave up the puck on one of the Ducks goals.

 

[madinsomniac]

According to a snip it that I saw from the Athletic (I’m not subscribed so I can’t see the full article) “Mike Sullivan has a hammer and is threatening to drop it on the Penguins.” I wonder if that hammer consists of him sitting down with JR and saying “we need less guys like Phil and Brass, give me more guys like ZAR and Wilson because they just play the game the right way.”

Yeah then we end up in Bylsma’s era all over again... the issues with this team are not phil kessel related... its that the guys who don’t have the talent of a phil kessel can do the things thatphil is always accused of without catching any flak...

I don’t care if phil isn’t always playing defense... his production and especially post season production gives him a free pass... if sully cannot deal with that he can get out... coaches are a dime a dozen... kessel is one of a kind