Salary Cap: Salary Cap: 2016-17 roster-building part VII | Contract chart, cap info in post #1

[Saltyseabass]

Ryan Wilson on Twitter just threw out there a Fleury for Frolik. I don't follow Frolik really. What does everyone think of this trade? I personally think we should trade for a 1st and use that money to throw at Helm and send a 2nd for Hansen.

 

[Brandinho]

Ryan Wilson on Twitter just threw out there a Fleury for Frolik. I don't follow Frolik really. What does everyone think of this trade? I personally think we should trade for a 1st and use that money to throw at Helm and send a 2nd for Hansen.

Frolik is a good fit in terms of his age and skill set, but he definitely wouldn't be plan A for me. He has a $4.3m cap hit through 2020 so that'd rule us out from going after any significant free agents. I'd only consider that deal if we kick the tires on Okposo and realize it won't happen.

 

[Tender Rip]

Oh I definitely understand the mix/complimentary line, but Lucic is a guy I wouldn't want anywhere near our team. We were awesome at ignoring all the extra crap, playing with speed/tenacity, and being relentless offensively. I could not imagine where Lucic would fit, at all, with our overall identity.

I just couldn't disagree more.
One of the primary reasons we've been having to ignore the "extra crap" is that we couldn't handle engaging in it. We didn't really have any players who could stand up to it, and ultimately our stars went nuts and got off their games.
No reason that they and most our other players shouldn't generally just continue what they are doing, skating away.... Babcock Wings style... but Lucic is both a deterrent against that crap and one of the very best in the league at stepping in to do something about it.

This while being a damn good player, one of the very best power forwards in the league in fact. Saying that we have no use for one of the leagues best PF's.... hockey wise as well as rough stuff, I just don't get it. Every single team in the league is better off with Lucic in their top 6.
Lucic has played with centers like Bergeron, Krejci and most recently Kopitar and Carter, and been a major positive factor consistently while going up against top level competition.

And intensity level? Since when isn't Lucic intense? He is not a slacker by any means.

Do not want. And it has almost no chance of happening anyway.

I agree it is unlikely, of course. But that is very much something else .

 

[Pharrell Williams]

Zatkoff obviously isn't coming back, but anybody got ideas as to where he'll go? Europe? Some team with horrendous goalie options? AHL?

 

[Brandinho]

I just couldn't disagree more.
One of the primary reasons we've been having to ignore the "extra crap" is that we couldn't handle engaging in it. We didn't really have any players who could stand up to it, and ultimately our stars went nuts and got off their games.
No reason that they and most our other players shouldn't generally just continue what they are doing, skating away.... Babcock Wings style... but Lucic is both a deterrent against that crap and one of the very best in the league at stepping in to do something about it.

This while being a damn good player, one of the very best power forwards in the league in fact. Saying that we have no use for one of the leagues best PF's.... hockey wise as well as rough stuff, I just don't get it. Every single team in the league is better off with Lucic in their top 6.
Lucic has played with centers like Bergeron, Krejci and most recently Kopitar and Carter, and been a major positive factor consistently while going up against top level competition.

And intensity level? Since when isn't Lucic intense? He is not a slacker by any means.

100% on board with this. There were so many times during the playoffs that I wished we had somebody, anybody on the team who'd do something about gutless trash like Callahan and Wilson running our best players. Really, the only guy on the team with the physicality and mindset to hit back is Letang and the last thing I want him to do is get distracted and start running people. As you said, we didn't ignore them because we were bigger men or some nonsense like that, we ignored them because we had to.

The problem with most of the guys you'd bring in as a "deterrent" is that they can't actually play hockey, certainly not on such an uptempo, skill heavy team as the Penguins. Lucic obviously doesn't fall into that category - he's a skilled, legitimate top 6 winger. He fits all the criteria I'd look for in a big investment - age, skill, production and his physical presence would be a welcome addition. I've just never really entertained the possibility of signing him because it seems like he wants to stay on the West Coast.

 

[Zero Pucks]

The Hawks board (I was reading there, because they have a Malkin trade thread) keeps throwing around a Scuderi retirement in their cap calculations. That's just wishful thinking right? Or is there any rumor about this out there?

I think they're just that desperate for cap space.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

All aboard the Lucic train!

 

[ColePens]

I'm not saying I am 100% correct. None of us truly know until the guy gets on the line and starts going to work. My gut was pretty solid through a lot of this but nobody is ever 100% correct. Lucic could be the perfect player. IMO, as an armchair online GM, I stay away from the risk.

100% on board with this. There were so many times during the playoffs that I wished we had somebody, anybody on the team who'd do something about gutless trash like Callahan and Wilson running our best players. Really, the only guy on the team with the physicality and mindset to hit back is Letang and the last thing I want him to do is get distracted and start running people. As you said, we didn't ignore them because we were bigger men or some nonsense like that, we ignored them because we had to.

We definitely need to discuss this.

Tender and Brandinho, I just cannot believe quotes like this are coming out. The one thing I loved most about the Pens is that they didn't even flirt with the idea of being tough or getting into post-whistle stuff. That stuff absolutely tore the Pens apart in the past because they stopped focusing on their game and started focusing on physical garbage. This year they thrived on turning the other way and playing their game hard/fast.

Do i want Lucic out there intimidating other players? No... because then it starts the nonsense that I hate the most. Then every post-whistle scrum would include Geno/Lucic/Letang getting into garbage that I don't want to see. I loved that they put their heads down and went to work. I think that was one of the strongest parts of their game in the playoffs.

To defend your argument a little, Crosby has stated in the past he feels safer when a guy is on the bench like Lucic... and Lucic can play, unlike guys like Godard or Sesito. I just really want to make a point of how important it was to stay emotionally accountable to this Pens postseason team. It was such a good part of the team.

 

[Zero Pucks]

100% on board with this. There were so many times during the playoffs that I wished we had somebody, anybody on the team who'd do something about gutless trash like Callahan and Wilson running our best players. Really, the only guy on the team with the physicality and mindset to hit back is Letang and the last thing I want him to do is get distracted and start running people. As you said, we didn't ignore them because we were bigger men or some nonsense like that, we ignored them because we had to.

The problem with most of the guys you'd bring in as a "deterrent" is that they can't actually play hockey, certainly not on such an uptempo, skill heavy team as the Penguins. Lucic obviously doesn't fall into that category - he's a skilled, legitimate top 6 winger. He fits all the criteria I'd look for in a big investment - age, skill, production and his physical presence would be a welcome addition. I've just never really entertained the possibility of signing him because it seems like he wants to stay on the West Coast.

Lucic is too much of a loose canon that can dish the big hits but can't take them and prone to taking stupid penalties. We finally moved on from that crap, don't bring it back.

 

[ColePens]

Oh btw, for another thread, I think player safety has to be the unit that makes it safer to play the game. But that's a whole other discussion or another thread. I've been quite vocal on that, too.

I am not for players policing their own game. I do not enjoy that.

 

[hagelin1381]

Meh, Lucic plays a game where his body is going to break down faster than most players, think Clowe (maybe not that bad). Price wouldn't be bad for a couple of years, but seeing as this is his last pay day he will probably want 5-6 years which I don't think the Pens should commit to

 

[Ogrezilla]

100% on board with this. There were so many times during the playoffs that I wished we had somebody, anybody on the team who'd do something about gutless trash like Callahan and Wilson running our best players. Really, the only guy on the team with the physicality and mindset to hit back is Letang and the last thing I want him to do is get distracted and start running people. As you said, we didn't ignore them because we were bigger men or some nonsense like that, we ignored them because we had to.

The problem with most of the guys you'd bring in as a "deterrent" is that they can't actually play hockey, certainly not on such an uptempo, skill heavy team as the Penguins. Lucic obviously doesn't fall into that category - he's a skilled, legitimate top 6 winger. He fits all the criteria I'd look for in a big investment - age, skill, production and his physical presence would be a welcome addition. I've just never really entertained the possibility of signing him because it seems like he wants to stay on the West Coast.

Lucic won't stop Callahan or Wilson from doing that. Nobody in the league will. Guys like that just don't care about getting punched a few times. They don't care about taking a hit. The only thing you can try to do is give dirty hits back, and that's a war I don't want us getting into. IMO, the situation would get worse with one guy like Lucic on the team. He isn't nearly enough to stop the problem, but he's probably enough to escalate a situation.

Add in that I don't trust him staying good for much longer and I want no part of Lucic.

Oh btw, for another thread, I think player safety has to be the unit that makes it safer to play the game. But that's a whole other discussion or another thread. I've been quite vocal on that, too.

I am not for players policing their own game. I do not enjoy that.

Especially since the players aren't given the freedom to actually police the game anymore. Fights get broken up too quickly. Penalties go to the team who did the policing. Same with suspensions. I think the league is in a really bad spot right now. They have taken the ability to police the game away from the players, but they have not adequately policed the game themselves.

 

[thecore]

Meh, Lucic plays a game where his body is going to break down faster than most players, think Clowe (maybe not that bad). Price wouldn't be bad for a couple of years, but seeing as this is his last pay day he will probably want 5-6 years which I don't think the Pens should commit to

The price and term is obviously a big factor. I'm not sure I want both an aging Lucic and Hornqvist in our top 6 when we're built on speed. One is fine, both is iffy.

 

[TorstenFrings]

I think they're just that desperate for cap space.

Yeah, seems that way. I have since checked the Kings board and there is not a single mention of it there and they could certainly use the cap space too.

 

[Fordy]

just won a cup playing smart hockey and ignoring everything else. you know what this team needs? an injection of idiots

 

[IcedCapp]

Lucic has one of the same medical conditions I have. Attacks his spine. Amazed how well he can play.

Still wouldn't want him for the money/term he'll command.

 

[IcedCapp]

just won a cup playing smart hockey and ignoring everything else. you know what this team needs? an injection of idiots

Part of the problem is this endless debate about whether or not tough guys prevent these things.

In all honesty, I don't want a tough guy who will stand up to Dubinsky or Callahan.

I want a psychopath who will just run them repeatedly afterwards.

 

[JackFr]

No Lucic, Ladd or Okposo. Didn't this season teach us that buying low on trades will get us further than buying high on free agents?

I still like Boedker, stats and all, because I think he fits the team identity well. Good two way, young, and fast. I think he'd essentially be another Hagelin for us. I'm not sure id want us to spend 5 million on that. If Hansen hadn't just had a big year he'd be perfect.

 

[Brandinho]

We definitely need to discuss this.

Tender and Brandinho, I just cannot believe quotes like this are coming out. The one thing I loved most about the Pens is that they didn't even flirt with the idea of being tough or getting into post-whistle stuff. That stuff absolutely tore the Pens apart in the past because they stopped focusing on their game and started focusing on physical garbage. This year they thrived on turning the other way and playing their game hard/fast.

Do i want Lucic out there intimidating other players? No... because then it starts the nonsense that I hate the most. Then every post-whistle scrum would include Geno/Lucic/Letang getting into garbage that I don't want to see. I loved that they put their heads down and went to work. I think that was one of the strongest parts of their game in the playoffs.

To defend your argument a little, Crosby has stated in the past he feels safer when a guy is on the bench like Lucic... and Lucic can play, unlike guys like Godard or Sesito. I just really want to make a point of how important it was to stay emotionally accountable to this Pens postseason team. It was such a good part of the team.

I'm not saying I want the Pens to goon it up or shift their focus away from what made them successful. I just absolutely hate the feeling of helplessness watching our star players get run over and over. In fact, I'm genuinely shocked it didn't happen even more often. A team without much of a physical presence that isn't very good on the powerplay is exactly the sort of team you can treat roughly as a tactic.

You can still turn the other way and play fast with Lucic, he's not there to be a goon. He's there because he's a great player...who just so happens to be capable of stamping people like Callahan and Wilson out of existence. That's a bonus, not the primary reason I want him.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

No Lucic, Ladd or Okposo. Didn't this season teach us that buying low on trades will get us further than buying high on free agents?

I still like Boedker, stats and all, because I think he fits the team identity well. Good two way, young, and fast. I think he'd essentially be another Hagelin for us. I'm not sure id want us to spend 5 million on that. If Hansen hadn't just had a big year he'd be perfect.

Boedker may be a two way player, but he still has bad possession and is bad in his own end. Turns over the puck etc. He scores most of his points on his top PP unit anyway, where he probably wouldn't fit here.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Yakupov is garbage, I have absolutely no idea how you can just ignore all of his faults and say the Pens should go after him. There is no redemption for him available, he's just a bad hockey player. Your proof of him not being a crap player is just a highlight video, my proof for him sucking is from watching the actual games.

And how does Yakupov to Pittsburgh have a very realistic shot at happening? Do you personally know JR? Have any rumor guys said it's possible? Please provide a source.

You will be proven to be very wrong, and when you are, I will bring this post back up and there will be no explaining it away.

 

[Riptide]

Wait, so if he just retired, then his cap should be off the books since it runs into 16/17 and ends after that season.

Or am I confusing it with something else?

People are mixing up the terms. Yes he's "retired" from hockey. But he will finish out his contract on LTIR. It's the only way he can get paid the 3m PIT owes him.

 

[ColePens]

Some great discussion here. We have to take it to the new thread. 1k limit.