Rumor: Sabres trying to trade Ristolainen - Part II

[tsujimoto74]

Sure. But it doesn't change anything. He would get a bump in 5v5 points, but wouldn't close in on the 40 he scores in Buffalo, half of which are coming on the PP.

Hmmm..Virtually no change in PP production but a massive swing in ES production. Almost makes it seem like a player's usage and the team around him matter.

YEAR	PLAYER	ES POINTS	PP POINTS
2017-18	Ryan O'Reilly	34	23
2018-19	Ryan O'Reilly	52	22

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Team Cozens]

And the Sabres would be doing all this just to get AA back. They're not gonna part with Larkin nor will Nielsen likely waive his NTC.

I'm sorry but the ask from Buffalo is unrealistic given that the cap barely budged

Time will tell and you are only using your opinion. I think you are wrong.

 

[DFC]

Hmmm..Virtually no change in PP production but a massive swing in ES production. Almost makes it seem like a player's usage and the team around him matter.

YEAR	PLAYER	ES POINTS	PP POINTS
2017-18	Ryan O'Reilly	34	23
2018-19	Ryan O'Reilly	52	22

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Has there been a massive swing in 5v5 production for Risto? I don't have the numbers in front of me but I'm pretty sure this is the first year his 5v5 assists outpaced his PP assists.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Has there been a massive swing in 5v5 production for Risto? I don't have the numbers in front of me but I'm pretty sure this is the first year his 5v5 assists outpaced his PP assists.

Psst. O'Reilly's jump came when he got away from Housley and the Sabres.

ETA: However, Risto did have a bit of a jump from 18 ES points in 2017-18 to 26 in 18-19, while the team jumped from 119 5-v-5 GF to 154, which is actually a more than proportionate increase in output for him (18/119 = 23/154).

I'm not saying Risto doesn't have his warts, but jeez is the guy getting underrated on HF. He's been playing very tough minutes on very bad teams under a lot of different (and all bad) coaches. Put him in a position to succeed, and I bet he thrives.

 

[DFC]

Psst. O'Reilly's jump came when he got away from Housley and the Sabres.

ETA: However, Risto did have a bit of a jump from 18 ES points in 2017-18 to 26 in 18-19, while the team jumped from 119 5-v-5 GF to 154, which is actually a more than proportionate increase in output for him (18/119 = 23/154).

I'm not saying Risto doesn't have his warts, but jeez is the guy getting underrated on HF. He's been playing very tough minutes on very bad teams under a lot of different (and all bad) coaches. Put him in a position to succeed, and I bet he thrives.

I don't think he's getting underrated. Nobody (or at least, nobody serious) is saying he sucks. We're just saying his role in Buffalo (24-26 minutes per night, top PP time) is likely to be greatly reduced. That'll probably/hopefully help him out defensively, but he's not gonna be a 40 point defenseman on just about any other team. He's even unlikely to be that in Buffalo moving forward, as the D-core grows around him.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I don't think he's getting underrated. Nobody (or at least, nobody serious) is saying he sucks. We're just saying his role in Buffalo (24-26 minutes per night, top PP time) is likely to be greatly reduced. That'll probably/hopefully help him out defensively, but he's not gonna be a 40 point defenseman on just about any other team. He's even unlikely to be that in Buffalo moving forward, as the D-core grows around him.

Giving Risto less ES minutes would only help him IMO (especially if less minutes means less minutes starting in the defensive zone lined up against opponents' best players). When you put him in a role he's properly suited for, you're setting him up to be more impactful, not less.

 

[Slap]

Too bad he doesn't want to play in the Finnish national team. Would be interesting to see what he looks like under a real coach and in an actual system.

 

[DarthProbert]

Yeah, not surprised it's Eklund. No chance the Oilers would make that move.

For how little the Sabres paid for Jokiharju and Miller, they could flip either one to Edmonton and still come out ahead pretty easily.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I don't think he's getting underrated. Nobody (or at least, nobody serious) is saying he sucks. We're just saying his role in Buffalo (24-26 minutes per night, top PP time) is likely to be greatly reduced. That'll probably/hopefully help him out defensively, but he's not gonna be a 40 point defenseman on just about any other team. He's even unlikely to be that in Buffalo moving forward, as the D-core grows around him.

He sucks.

 

[DFC]

Giving Risto less ES minutes would only help him IMO (especially if less minutes means less minutes starting in the defensive zone lined up against opponents' best players). When you put him in a role he's properly suited for, you're setting him up to be more impactful, not less.

Defensively yes, as I said. Any boost he's given offensively will be massively outweighed by the reduction in PP time though. So what's that leave you with? A 30 point Dman? Who's below average-to-average in his own end? That's a good player, but it doesn't return the kind of players whose names have been thrown around in these threads.

At the deadline, some team might be in a desperate search for a PP Dman, and then I could see Buffalo getting a solid return here. Well, I mean, the return would be solid regardless, but I don't think it's reasonable to expect a 60 point forward.

 

[Djp]

What is Buffalo's cap situation? With Vancouver desperate to trade Eriksson, would Buffalo take that contract in order to get the top-six F they're looking for? Something like that? Where Buffalo takes a negative to get a bigger positive for Risto? Could even up the values.

If we get Eriksson you get Okposo...Okposo gets $6M per too and is viewed as dead weight.

Risto is not negative

If buffalo was taking back Erickson you’d need to include Podkolzin

 

[tsujimoto74]

Defensively yes, as I said. Any boost he's given offensively will be massively outweighed by the reduction in PP time though. So what's that leave you with? A 30 point Dman? Who's below average-to-average in his own end? That's a good player, but it doesn't return the kind of players whose names have been thrown around in these threads.

At the deadline, some team might be in a desperate search for a PP Dman, and then I could see Buffalo getting a solid return here. Well, I mean, the return would be solid regardless, but I don't think it's reasonable to expect a 60 point forward.

There are plenty of teams in the league for whom Risto would be their best PP d-man. Tampa isn't one of them, but not every team has a Hedman.

 

[jcbeze]

It's simple. He'll return what a top 4, minute eating, all situations defenseman should return. That's all.

Thanks.

 

[Der Jaeger]

To Colorado for Compher and 2020 1st?

To Winnipeg for Roslovic and Heinola?

 

[ijuka]

To Winnipeg for Roslovic and Heinola?

Jets would be fools to make that trade.

 

[Snowman]

To Colorado for Compher and 2020 1st?

To Winnipeg for Roslovic and Heinola?

No thanks from Winnipeg.

 

[Hunter368]

To Colorado for Compher and 2020 1st?

To Winnipeg for Roslovic and Heinola?

Hell no from the Jets

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

I'm wondering what Vegas especially plans on doing with only Schmidt and Holden as starting quality RHDs on their roster (and overall need for Dmen). They aren't very deep at C (Karlsson, Stastny, Eakin...???) and many FWs have NMC/NTCs...except for Tuch. Does Vegas need to make a push for Ristolainen? If so, is Tuch in the equation?

Ristolainen
Rodrigues (speedy, versatile RH shot FW with 29 pts in 74 gms last season, current RFA that should get about 1 mil)

for

Tuch
Clarkson

So Vegas gets a RHD, a cheap replacement for Tuch, and a 3.5 mil cap savings.

Terribad for Buffalo.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

To Colorado for Compher and 2020 1st?

To Winnipeg for Roslovic and Heinola?

Are you the only one that didnt get the message that Botts is not trading him for futures. Compher as center pieced in Risto trade makes me wanna vomit. Aso for the WPG part even if their fans here are saying no from their POV, I am not trading Risto for 2 maybes, 1 of whom is not even a forward. Roslovic is maybe never a top 6 player, so just like with Compher he cannot be the centrepiece in a Risto trade.

 

[untouchable21]

It gets worse when you look at who has space I'll take the top 10

1. Colorado -Unless the Sabres are taking back someone like Jost there's no deal. Plus they seem maxed out on D
2. Winnipeg- Sabres better be happy with Perreault going back
3. Ottawa- What 2C??? Next!
4. New Jersey- They FINALLY have a 1-2 punch at center and they just got Subban. I can't think of a worse team for Buffalo to try to trade with
5. Columbus- Already have Seth Jones... Next!
6. Philadelphia- Maybe they're crazy enough to trade Couturier but Risto isn't worth it to them
7. St. Louis- Same problem as CBJ... they've got no use for Risto
8 Minnesota- Matt Dumba.... Next!
9 Calgary- Running out of cap room and have to sign Tkachuk. Have no need to modify the defense
10 Los Angeles- You guys want Jeff Carter?? LOL! Iafallo is clearly in their plans going forward


Buffalo is gonna have to wait. There's no trades to be made right now for what they want.


Seriously.... it's basically Winnipeg as the only somewhat-realistic partner and Buffalo's gonna have to settle

And Ristolainen is not displacing Byfuglien on the #1 PP unit. His defensive metrics are worse than Myers and he was a scapegoat for it here in Winnipeg so giving up more than Perreault is not good for the Jets, in fact it eats up more cap space than actually keeping Perreault and the Jets are up against it with Laine, Connor, Copp and Pionk to re-sign.

And definitely not trading one of our valued forwards like Connor or Ehlers in the name of gaining cap space for a defenseman who cannot defend.

 

[untouchable21]

To Colorado for Compher and 2020 1st?

To Winnipeg for Roslovic and Heinola?

Absolutely not from a Jets perspective. Not including our most recent 1st round pick.

Even if Roslovic was available, Sabres would need to take back Perreault to make the salaries work and then that becomes too good of a deal for the Sabres as Perreault is still a solid contributor, just a bit overpaid for the ice time he gets in Winnipeg with all their talented young wingers ahead of him.

Or retain salary on Ristolainen which I’m sure they have no intention of doing.

 

[valet]

crazy that this thread has gotten into a whole part 2. I thought it would be well and over, but here we are, still waiting on an infamous risto trade. Like man, I can't even believe how many people are so obsessed with this... What is even going on

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Jets would be fools to make that trade.

Not really. Brandon Montour and Risto are very similar. Both are good skating RHD capable of putting up points. Risto is a year younger and even better then Montour. It cost the Sabres a 2019 1st and Brendan Guhle, one of our best prospects who projects as an all around top 4 Dman.

Roslovic and Heinola almost literally are an equal package to what the Sabres paid for a slightly inferior young RHD.

2019 1st = Heinola
Roslovic>= Guhle

Roslovic is trending in the right direction but he hasn't lit the world on fire. He definitely is not worth more then Risto that is for sure. If teams don't want to pay the correct cost he won't be moved period. We don't want M. Perreault and a 2nd round pick for our top 4 24 year old RHD. Sabres paid retail value for Montour. If that offer isn't at least matched value wise then Risto is staying put. HF also was so sure that Alex Nylander was a bust whose trade value was declining every single day. Other teams fans were offering 2nd round picks or their own struggling prospects who were even below Nylander draft pedigree and potential wise. All Botts did was move him for one of the better young RHD in the entire league. To use a good comparison, Joki holds the same value as Heinola does so Botterill was able to move his "busting" prospect for another future top 4 young dman.

 

[CaptPantalones]

Are you the only one that didnt get the message that Botts is not trading him for futures. Compher as center pieced in Risto trade makes me wanna vomit. Aso for the WPG part even if their fans here are saying no from their POV, I am not trading Risto for 2 maybes, 1 of whom is not even a forward. Roslovic is maybe never a top 6 player, so just like with Compher he cannot be the centrepiece in a Risto trade.

If either team calls and offers that, I'm driving risto there myself. I'm taking either without blinking. Both are very good returns for risto and both qill.be very good nhl players

 

[Mtler in Toronto]

At this point I would much rather have Reijo Ruotsalainen on my blue line rather than Rasmus Ristolainen. Even if he is 59 years old.