Rumor: Sabres trying to trade Ristolainen - Part II

[DFC]

Here's Buffalo's problem

1. They need to find a team that will use Risto as a PP specialist in order to maximize his potential
2. That same team needs to have a 2C they will give the Sabres
3. Salaries need to work
4. Most teams are gonna be maxed out on cap space in a couple of weeks
5. Ideal team to trade with will probably not have cap

That "mammoth" offer ain't gonna happen with all these items in play

This. Risto only has that kind of value to a team desperate for a righty on the PP, who happens to have an extra top-six scorer they can give up. It's a really hard match to make. And the bottom-feeding teams who might use Risto in that role probably aren't thrilled about the idea of him being brought in as a top guy. It would mostly be teams looking at him like a complementary piece to their top-4, or maybe bottom pairing.

 

[DFC]

I think it's hard to judge what is an over or underpayment for Risto. He's such a polarizing player that a 'fair value' is going to vary wildly depending on who you ask. I bet there's a subset of GMs that think his value is a top six forward. The million dollar question here is if there's a GM that sees him that way that also has a team need at RD and someone to offer that fits Buffalo's wants.

Right, but player values don't exist in vacuums. I'm not sure that there's another team in the league, at least not one that would be interested in Risto, where he'd play 25 minutes per night and get top unit PP duty. That alone makes him much more valuable to Buffalo than he would be elsewhere. You're dealing a top pairing D, but the other team is getting a 4/5.

 

[DFC]

So those posts specifically they said they wanted these three players specifically because they had scored 25 goals? Or was it more because these are simply the young players who generate interest on 2 of the few teams who might want/need a D man? It's been said multiple multiple times that a player who can play 2C or young LW is the desired return. I have seen nobody say they need a player who can score X goals. If you have suggestions for young players on either Detroit or Winnipeg who fit the bill otherwise then that's a discussion can be had. But simply because the three players who were listed as examples all scored 25 last year that doesn't mean "Sabres fans will only trade risto if they get a 25 goal scorer back".

I don't even know how to respond to that.

The post listed multiple 25 goal-scorers. I used the phrase "25 goal-scorer." I'm not sure how that's inaccurate. If I'd said "30 goal scorers," I could see your point.

 

[Mattilaus]

I don't even know how to respond to that.

The post listed multiple 25 goal-scorers. I used the phrase "25 goal-scorer." I'm not sure how that's inaccurate. If I'd said "30 goal scorers," I could see your point.

My point is you have created this arbitrary boundary where for some reason Sabres fans will only trade Risto for a 25 goal scorer. Nobody else said this. Someone else suggesting 25 goal scorers doesn't mean they are not open to trading risto for anyone except a 25 goal scorer. They were just suggesting players. This isn't difficult to understand.

If you have players who you think are fair value on teams who would be interested in Risto but haven't scored 25 goals then say them. You complain Sabres fans only want a 25 goal scorer when nobody said that and then you offer no alternatives of your own.

 

[Sabrehack]

I think Danault would certainly start a conversation. Not sure however, how keen either team would be making a trade within their division. I personally would keep Mittelstadt in the middle with lots of support, and continue to work towards a Mantha deal over bringing in Danault. Objectively probably not far off except a little age and term.

 

[These Are The Days]

This. Risto only has that kind of value to a team desperate for a righty on the PP, who happens to have an extra top-six scorer they can give up. It's a really hard match to make. And the bottom-feeding teams who might use Risto in that role probably aren't thrilled about the idea of him being brought in as a top guy. It would mostly be teams looking at him like a complementary piece to their top-4, or maybe bottom pairing.

It gets worse when you look at who has space I'll take the top 10

1. Colorado -Unless the Sabres are taking back someone like Jost there's no deal. Plus they seem maxed out on D
2. Winnipeg- Sabres better be happy with Perreault going back
3. Ottawa- What 2C??? Next!
4. New Jersey- They FINALLY have a 1-2 punch at center and they just got Subban. I can't think of a worse team for Buffalo to try to trade with
5. Columbus- Already have Seth Jones... Next!
6. Philadelphia- Maybe they're crazy enough to trade Couturier but Risto isn't worth it to them
7. St. Louis- Same problem as CBJ... they've got no use for Risto
8 Minnesota- Matt Dumba.... Next!
9 Calgary- Running out of cap room and have to sign Tkachuk. Have no need to modify the defense
10 Los Angeles- You guys want Jeff Carter?? LOL! Iafallo is clearly in their plans going forward


Buffalo is gonna have to wait. There's no trades to be made right now for what they want.


Seriously.... it's basically Winnipeg as the only somewhat-realistic partner and Buffalo's gonna have to settle

 

[DFC]

My point is you have created this arbitrary boundary where for some reason Sabres fans will only trade Risto for a 25 goal scorer. Nobody else said this. Someone else suggesting 25 goal scorers doesn't mean they are not open to trading risto for anyone except a 25 goal scorer. They were just suggesting players. This isn't difficult to understand.

If you have players who you think are fair value on teams who would be interested in Risto but haven't scored 25 goals then say them. You complain Sabres fans only want a 25 goal scorer when nobody said that and then you offer no alternatives of your own.

I think he said, "This is exactly the type of player we should target." So 25 goals or the equivalent value... This is the post I originally responded to, which you defended, and now somehow I'm not supposed to use that measure? I don't get that.

I'm not offering alternatives because, from my team, there are none. He would be a #4 in TB until Sergachev takes over the role, as early as this year. So I don't think we could give up someone like Johnson. Which is why I go back to, Why doesn't Buffalo just keep him? Because most offers are going to be around middle-six tweeners.

 

[Gabrielor]

I think he said, "This is exactly the type of player we should target." So 25 goals or the equivalent value... This is the post I originally responded to, which you defended, and now somehow I'm not supposed to use that measure? I don't get that.

I'm not offering alternatives because, from my team, there are none. He would be a #4 in TB until Sergachev takes over the role, as early as this year. So I don't think we could give up someone like Johnson. Which is why I go back to, Why doesn't Buffalo just keep him? Because most offers are going to be around middle-six tweeners.

Buffalo should 100% be prepared to keep him, and I’d be fine with that.

 

[Djp]

Buffalo has no requirement to trade Ristolainen now....

LD: Dalin, Scandella,(UFA) McCabe(current RFA), Hunwick (UFA)
RD: Ristolainen,( 3 yrs) Montour( 1 yr to RFA then 1-2 yrs of team control), Miller (3 yrs), Nelson (IFA)

IR--Bogo (UFA )
IR Pilut--then to Rochester( 2nd yr of his 2 yr ELC0
Joki--richester (has 2 ELC year left)
Borgen (2 yrs ELc left)

assume no trades looking ahead to 20.21

LD: Dalin, Pilut, xxx/Miller ,McCabe
RD: Ristolainen, Montour, Miller/xxx

They have a bunch of youth in their system on ELC or not yet signed.

Ristolainen can be moved to RW power forward type

 

[Team Cozens]

It gets worse when you look at who has space I'll take the top 10

1. Colorado -Unless the Sabres are taking back someone like Jost there's no deal. Plus they seem maxed out on D
2. Winnipeg- Sabres better be happy with Perreault going back
3. Ottawa- What 2C??? Next!
4. New Jersey- They FINALLY have a 1-2 punch at center and they just got Subban. I can't think of a worse team for Buffalo to try to trade with
5. Columbus- Already have Seth Jones... Next!
6. Philadelphia- Maybe they're crazy enough to trade Couturier but Risto isn't worth it to them
7. St. Louis- Same problem as CBJ... they've got no use for Risto
8 Minnesota- Matt Dumba.... Next!
9 Calgary- Running out of cap room and have to sign Tkachuk. Have no need to modify the defense
10 Los Angeles- You guys want Jeff Carter?? LOL! Iafallo is clearly in their plans going forward


Buffalo is gonna have to wait. There's no trades to be made right now for what they want.


Seriously.... it's basically Winnipeg as the only somewhat-realistic partner and Buffalo's gonna have to settle

DETROIT

 

[Team Cozens]

I think he said, "This is exactly the type of player we should target." So 25 goals or the equivalent value... This is the post I originally responded to, which you defended, and now somehow I'm not supposed to use that measure? I don't get that.

I'm not offering alternatives because, from my team, there are none. He would be a #4 in TB until Sergachev takes over the role, as early as this year. So I don't think we could give up someone like Johnson. Which is why I go back to, Why doesn't Buffalo just keep him? Because most offers are going to be around middle-six tweeners.

We probably will !

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

It gets worse when you look at who has space I'll take the top 10

1. Colorado -Unless the Sabres are taking back someone like Jost there's no deal. Plus they seem maxed out on D
2. Winnipeg- Sabres better be happy with Perreault going back
3. Ottawa- What 2C??? Next!
4. New Jersey- They FINALLY have a 1-2 punch at center and they just got Subban. I can't think of a worse team for Buffalo to try to trade with
5. Columbus- Already have Seth Jones... Next!
6. Philadelphia- Maybe they're crazy enough to trade Couturier but Risto isn't worth it to them
7. St. Louis- Same problem as CBJ... they've got no use for Risto
8 Minnesota- Matt Dumba.... Next!
9 Calgary- Running out of cap room and have to sign Tkachuk. Have no need to modify the defense
10 Los Angeles- You guys want Jeff Carter?? LOL! Iafallo is clearly in their plans going forward


Buffalo is gonna have to wait. There's no trades to be made right now for what they want.


Seriously.... it's basically Winnipeg as the only somewhat-realistic partner and Buffalo's gonna have to settle

Vancouver, TB, and Vegas all have a need or have expressed some interest in RHD/Ristolainen, and I would put those teams anywhere from 2-5 on your list. Regardless, there is pretty much always a market for a 2nd pair RHD. No hurry for Buffalo or any other team to make a big effort in a trade, but interest will be there.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Oh no, we got to keep Risto if we don't settle for some bottom 6 plug? Oh the horror.

If you aren't offering a 2c then bye bye. Risto is worth far far more then HF thinks. He is going to look great this year playing 20-21 a night instead of 25.

 

[SabresSharks]

Don't get the idea that Botts is desperate to trade Risto. His RHD acquisitions since the TDL give him the flexibility to do so, dealing from a position of strength to potentially fill holes at 2C and RW, or acquire other desirable assets.

Keeping Risto would mean Jokiharju continues to develop in Rochester, while the RHD remains quite solid with Montour, Risto, and Miller, and Bogo (ugh) returning at some point. The Sabres can happily live with that.

Risto isn't getting "dumped" for garbage. Plus we all want to know how Krueger answered the "How would you handle Risto?" question.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

Seem to me that buffalo would be perfectly fine keeping ristolainen if they don’t get an offer that makes sense for them.

 

[These Are The Days]

Vancouver, TB, and Vegas all have a need or have expressed some interest in RHD/Ristolainen, and I would put those teams anywhere from 2-5 on your list. Regardless, there is pretty much always a market for a 2nd pair RHD. No hurry for Buffalo or any other team to make a big effort in a trade, but interest will be there.

The order was made by current cap space and these teams are liable to have the most in a few weeks and I'm not seeing many trade options

 

[These Are The Days]

DETROIT

And the Sabres would be doing all this just to get AA back. They're not gonna part with Larkin nor will Nielsen likely waive his NTC.

I'm sorry but the ask from Buffalo is unrealistic given that the cap barely budged

 

[Panthaz89]

The same people who call Risto a PP specialist are the same people who said ROR even strength scoring was garbage on the Sabres when they talked about trading him last year...maybe the Sabres just have a bad even strength scoring system overall under Housley the past two years which is more likely of the two and the guy doesn't know who works best with Risto even though him and Pilut together were doing pretty well.

 

[DFC]

What is Buffalo's cap situation? With Vancouver desperate to trade Eriksson, would Buffalo take that contract in order to get the top-six F they're looking for? Something like that? Where Buffalo takes a negative to get a bigger positive for Risto? Could even up the values.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I'm wondering what Vegas especially plans on doing with only Schmidt and Holden as starting quality RHDs on their roster (and overall need for Dmen). They aren't very deep at C (Karlsson, Stastny, Eakin...???) and many FWs have NMC/NTCs...except for Tuch. Does Vegas need to make a push for Ristolainen? If so, is Tuch in the equation?

Ristolainen
Rodrigues (speedy, versatile RH shot FW with 29 pts in 74 gms last season, current RFA that should get about 1 mil)

for

Tuch
Clarkson

So Vegas gets a RHD, a cheap replacement for Tuch, and a 3.5 mil cap savings.

 

[DFC]

The same people who call Risto a PP specialist are the same people who said ROR even strength scoring was garbage on the Sabres when they talked about trading him last year...maybe the Sabres just have a bad even strength scoring system overall under Housley the past two years which is more likely of the two.

...That Risto has ALWAYS depended on the PP for a huge chunk of his scoring. To the tune of a roughly 50-50 split on his points in his career.

 

[Panthaz89]

...That Risto has ALWAYS depended on the PP for a huge chunk of his scoring. To the tune of a roughly 50-50 split on his points in his career.

Well apparently so have 90% of the Sabres because literally everyone that whines about our players scoring on the PP rather than at even strength seems to disappear when they get traded away...before ROR got traded people kept whining that nearly half of his points came on PP because that's the only time the Sabres could reliably score when your team has no depth to play with your core. Put him on a competent team and I guarantee that scoring changes dramatically.

 

[Havok89]

...That Risto has ALWAYS depended on the PP for a huge chunk of his scoring. To the tune of a roughly 50-50 split on his points in his career.

Doesn’t help that Buffalo has been putrid at ES for years.

 

[DFC]

Doesn’t help that Buffalo has been putrid at ES for years.

Sure. But it doesn't change anything. He would get a bump in 5v5 points, but wouldn't close in on the 40 he scores in Buffalo, half of which are coming on the PP.

 

[Havok89]

What is Buffalo's cap situation? With Vancouver desperate to trade Eriksson, would Buffalo take that contract in order to get the top-six F they're looking for? Something like that? Where Buffalo takes a negative to get a bigger positive for Risto? Could even up the values.

Buffalo couldn’t take Ericksson’s contract, they already have $6M in dead space of their own with Kyle Okposo.