Speculation: Sabres Roster Speculation - Pre-season 2023 Edition

[Sabresfansince1980]

Not necessarily, you could break Savoie in between Girgs and KO. It did wonders for developing Krebs game and Savoie is already more advanced defensively

That's a good alternative if Savoie is ready. I like Jost as a 13th guy, not starting.

 

[Matt Ress]

My issue with this is that Tage is half as effective at wing, so he has to play center, and does anyone really think not developing Cozens as a big, fast, two-way second line center is not the best idea moving forward?

Cozens at wing may give you a little more versatility this season, but is it in the best interest of the team's long term competitive plan? I do not believe it is.

I was Mitts biggest defender on this board last season, and I really like the kid, but I think this team's future is brighter having Cozens as a top six pivot and Casey as the depth option for injuries. For that reason alone I want Cozens getting full time center reps and learning center defensive responsibilities the next couple of seasons.

There's no reason to limit the ice time of Cozens Greenway VO(?). Once you slot Quinn back in, he plays in that middle 6 with Cozens. Big, quick, versatile. Hell of a 3rd line. I worry more that Tage wouldn't have the space and production between JJ and Kulich/Savoie but that group would draw a lot of attention. You want scoring depth? That's a legit 1st and 2 2nds. Again, if Mitts can keep pace.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

We’re complicating lines. You go pairs. Skinner-Tage, Peterka-Cozens, Greenway-Mitts, Krebs-Okposo, as of right now. The third player is interchangeable.

You worry about the third person when defending a lead or pushing for a goal. Within 10 years, that will be how the NHL will look. Get ahead of the curve now.

 

[Irie]

Not necessarily, you could break Savoie in between Girgs and KO. It did wonders for developing Krebs game and Savoie is already more advanced defensively

While I agree and think that that strategy may actually be good for Savoie and his development, I am not certain it is the best route to be competitive this season.

Trying to push 3 scoring lines, (which honestly have been light on a physical game), and then having a "smallish" teenaged rookie centering your match-up "grit" line sets off a whole lot of red flags for me.

Savoie may have shown more two-way tenacity playing against younger teenagers, but I do not believe he is ready to try to play that game in the NHL yet (give him a couple of years to physically mature and I think he will get there).

 

[Matt Ress]

We’re complicating lines. You go pairs. Skinner-Tage, Peterka-Cozens, Greenway-Mitts, Krebs-Okposo, as of right now. The third player is interchangeable.

You worry about the third person when defending a lead or pushing for a goal. Within 10 years, that will be how the NHL will look. Get ahead of the curve now.

I've never liked the idea of pairs and I don't believe it will ever be the norm of successful teams.

 

[Aladyyn]

Not, though he is also one of the worst players at contested puck retrievals in the league. As a specialist, he has some unique skills and I will always have a soft spot in my heart watching Vic... but he's not even remotely a complete player.

He's definitely not a complete player, but he's also not the worst player in the league like some Sabres fans like implying. He has a lot of warts but they get amplified by the overall team structure/environment and his strengths aren't as apparent on a team that has an easy time generating offense and is uniquely loaded with +finishers.

While I agree that keeping Mitts and Krebs on separate lines is ideal, having the teams top 4 centers playing on the top 3 lines all but guarantees Jost is in the lineup fulltime as the fourth line center - for better or worse.

Oh no, what will we possibly do with a good bottom 6 player playing in our bottom 6

 

[Irie]

Oh no, what will we possibly do with a good bottom 6 player playing in our bottom 6

I personally don't dislike Jost. I think he is a guy that can chew up some minutes in a bottom six role and not really hurt the team. That said, he does not excell at anything and if you are looking to improve the roster, you'd love to get a "shut-down center/defensive zone specialist/clutch faceoff guy/protect a lead go to pivot", and Jost is just none of those things. He really is one of the first upgrades a team striving to be a cup contender replaces.

If this year is to be another development year and "playoff bubble team" is the expectation, having Jost in the lineup fulltime is fine.

Hopefully this is his breakout year and he makes big strides and makes this post look silly come spring. We can hope, right?

 

[Aladyyn]

I personally don't dislike Jost. I think he is a guy that can chew up some minutes in a bottom six role and not really hurt the team. That said, he does not excell at anything and if you are looking to improve the roster, you'd love to get a "shut-down center/defensive zone specialist/clutch faceoff guy/protect a lead go to pivot", and Jost is just none of those things. He really is one of the first upgrades a team striving to be a cup contender replaces.

If this year is to be another development year and "playoff bubble team" is the expectation, having Jost in the lineup fulltime is fine.

Hopefully this is his breakout year and he makes big strides and makes this post look silly come spring. We can hope, right?

Bottom 6 players that "excel" at parts of the game always give it back in other aspects, or they wouldn't be bottom 6 players. Jost's vanilla nature makes it easy to slide him up in terms of injuries because it's so easy to fit him on a line and that's more valuable to have in depth players than specialty.

I'm also not worried at all about faceoffs, all our centers are young and don't have the reps. They'll learn and get better.

 

[Irie]

Bottom 6 players that "excel" at parts of the game always give it back in other aspects, or they wouldn't be bottom 6 players. Jost's vanilla nature makes it easy to slide him up in terms of injuries because it's so easy to fit him on a line and that's more valuable to have in depth players than specialty.

I'm also not worried at all about faceoffs, all our centers are young and don't have the reps. They'll learn and get better.

I think you are missing the context of the discussion. We weren't talking about a bottom six spot - the post I was replying to was about breaking up the top six to make a top 9, and then have a bottom 3.

In a fourth line role with 10~ minutes of deployment, I do believe Jost can be effective in giving solid minutes and not costing the team games, but in a scenario where the team is rolling three offensive lines without a prototypical third line, Jost's line would be the defacto shut-down solutions and he just is just not that player. I hope he becomes that player, but currently he is far from the guy a team can lean on in defensive situations and him be a difference maker.

If the team is rolling three offensive lines and a Jost line, then the team is built poorly imo, and the chances of finding success will be slim.

For the record, I posted multiple times torward the end of the season that there was no reason to not bring Jost back the next two seasons, at least in a depth role given the cap situation, so I am not overly critical of him playing here in a limited role.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

I personally wouldn't be surprised if Donnie used a Mitts - Cozens - Greenway line as a matchup

 

[Irie]

I personally wouldn't be surprised if Donnie used a Mitts - Cozens - Greenway line as a matchup

In that scenario do you see Krebs as the 2C?

Tuch Krebs Peterka might be fun. We know Tuch elevates everyone he plays with, and Krebs and Peterka are both coming off monster world tournament showings.

Maybe one of the rookies could find some chemistry with Tage and Skinner

(or we pray that the Olofsson that shows up is the 2022 Spring version and not the 22-23 version)

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Was Drury their 3C? Krebs would be the 3C with O zone skewed starts. You'd figure Thompson draws the opposition's top pairing. You give Cozens the shutdown role while figuring a slight plus offensively is a win. Krebs draws easy matchups, while the Girgs-KO line is used for energy

 

[Irie]

Was Drury their 3C? Krebs would be the 3C with O zone skewed starts. You'd figure Thompson draws the opposition's top pairing. You give Cozens the shutdown role while figuring a slight plus offensively is a win. Krebs draws easy matchups, while the Girgs-KO line is used for energy

If Thompson is drawing the oppositions shut down line and Cozens is matching up against other teams top lines, that would leave a Krebs line often playing against other teams 2nd lines -

I.E.
Malkin Rust, Smith
Tavares, Marner, Domi
JK, Necas Svechnikov
Coyle Marchand DeBrusk
Bennet Verhaeghe Tkachuk
Trocheck Panarin Wheeler
Etc...

They may avoid the top pairing D often, but they would still have their work cut out for them I am thinking. The East is still ridiculously stacked with offensive talent.

 

[Matt Ress]

Seemed to me that Granato didn't generally match up forward lines to defend but more likely defensive pairings and defensemen and usually only late in the game.

Maybe that will change but ATOI didn't change much being up a goal compared to general 5v5. PK aside, it looks like he relied more on the top 4 defenders in that situation than any particular forward line. Late in games he did mix up lines from time to time being up 1 or down 1.

Would we like to see a shutdown line? Every 6 or 7 games you need that shift and that's not to say they always lost those situations because they didn't have that go-to line. More importantly, a shut down PK squad and overall team defensive structure will have a much greater impact.

 

[BFLO]

Before free agency I was wondering if they could land Orlov for 2 years. I was thinking it would take between 7.75M (I have an aversion to 8M - Hall!) To 9M.

What if they play Dahlin on the left side?

The defensive pairings are an interesting question in general. Lots of pairing options, and I expect they will morph over the course of the season.

I think at the end of the day the important part is that Clauge, Bryson, Pilut, Stillman, (fitz) and Boosh won't be seeing 3100 combined minutes of ice time.

Do we keep Dahlin on the right and go with something like this? Joki as the bottom pair driver might actually be the sweet spot for him.

LD	RD
Samuelsson	Dahlin
Power	Clifton
EJ/Boosh	Jokiharju

Or do we play guys to their handedness and end up with something like this?

LD	RD
Dahlin	Jokiharju
Power	Clifton
Samuelsson	EJ/Boosh

Power did well with Samuelsson.

LD	RD
Dahlin	Clifton
Power	Samuelsson
EJ/Boosh	Jokiharju

 

[TageGod]

In that scenario do you see Krebs as the 2C?

Tuch Krebs Peterka might be fun. We know Tuch elevates everyone he plays with, and Krebs and Peterka are both coming off monster world tournament showings.

Maybe one of the rookies could find some chemistry with Tage and Skinner

(or we pray that the Olofsson that shows up is the 2022 Spring version and not the 22-23 version)

There is no chance Krebs moves from 4C to 2C unless he suddenly becomes Brayden Point. Only question is if Mitts or Krebs gets 3C

 

[Ace]

Or do we play guys to their handedness and end up with something like this?

LD	RD
Dahlin	Jokiharju
Power	Clifton
Samuelsson	EJ/Boosh

 

[brian_griffin]

He's not wrong, and I don't get the sense there was any attempt to mislead.

People have a tendency to be lazy/imprecise when talking about changes in percentages. They can either be talking about the raw percentage point change, or the proportional change (percentage of a percentage), and it's not always obvious which.

This seems to me like an obvious miscommunication, not any sort of deceptive framing.

Yogi Berra:
"Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical."
"You give 100 per cent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough in the second half you give what's left."

I've never liked the idea of pairs and I don't believe it will ever be the norm of successful teams.

I'm curious as to your stance on polygamy...

 

[Chainshot]

He's definitely not a complete player, but he's also not the worst player in the league like some Sabres fans like implying. He has a lot of warts but they get amplified by the overall team structure/environment and his strengths aren't as apparent on a team that has an easy time generating offense and is uniquely loaded with +finishers.


Oh no, what will we possibly do with a good bottom 6 player playing in our bottom 6

As someone who has not seen anyone say Vic is the worst player in the league, I'd simplify it down into the position that they can look to improve in terms of goal and shot differential.

 

[Matt Ress]

Yogi Berra:
"Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical."
"You give 100 per cent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough in the second half you give what's left."


I'm curious as to your stance on polygamy...

"We're here for the gang bang"
--- Old School

 

[Chainshot]

Spit-balling based on the comments on the mains...

So the Knights may be putting Marchessault on the block... I would be interested in seeing if Jokiharju would be of interest there - allow them to move Theodore back to the left side. It's hard to look at a Conn Smythe winner (even if he's on an expiring contract) and not think "hey, a combative small, quick player who raises his game in the playoffs" as someone to show some leadership to the collection of small, quick players the Sabres have.

 

[Dingo44]

Spit-balling based on the comments on the mains...

So the Knights may be putting Marchessault on the block... I would be interested in seeing if Jokiharju would be of interest there - allow them to move Theodore back to the left side. It's hard to look at a Conn Smythe winner (even if he's on an expiring contract) and not think "hey, a combative small, quick player who raises his game in the playoffs" as someone to show some leadership to the collection of small, quick players the Sabres have.

They really don't show their players any loyalty, do they?

I suppose they got their Cup but it still should send some message to other players around the league.

I really hate that they won.

 

[Chainshot]

They really don't show their players any loyalty, do they?

I suppose they got their Cup but it's still should send some message to other players around the league.

I really hate that they won.

They've screwed players multiple times before this which is why Vegas does show up in the "don't go there" lists that the Athletic and other press folks have put out in the last few years. This article still rings true - Golden Knights Building Dangerous Reputation Concerning Loyalty - SinBin.vegas

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

They really don't show their players any loyalty, do they?

I suppose they got their Cup but it's still should send some message to other players around the league.

I really hate that they won.

Marchessault will be 33 in Dec, and in the final year of a 6x$5M contract. He'll rightfully be looking to be rewarded, in what will likely be his last contract, for that Smythe performance that, let's be honest, was gifted to him by Eichel to a very large extent.

It makes sense that he'd be on the short list of salaries to be shed by a team that consistently bumps up against the cap. They're currently less than $1M from the cap, factoring in Lehner remaining on LTIR.

I wonder if the "loyalty" aspect is all that important. In their 5-year history, VGK has missed the playoffs once, lost in the 1st Round, lost in a WCF, lost in a Cup Final, and won a Cup. They have demonstrated a willingness to make big, splashy moves to improve their team. For a veteran player without a Cup who is still productive, it would be a very tempting destination regardless.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Spit-balling based on the comments on the mains...

So the Knights may be putting Marchessault on the block... I would be interested in seeing if Jokiharju would be of interest there - allow them to move Theodore back to the left side. It's hard to look at a Conn Smythe winner (even if he's on an expiring contract) and not think "hey, a combative small, quick player who raises his game in the playoffs" as someone to show some leadership to the collection of small, quick players the Sabres have.

They’ve got their Cup. But it will take a long time for them to shed their “mercenary” label. They’ll always be a destination, but to get me to ever sign there, I’d want a NMC.