TBN: Sabres Mailbag: Will Jason Botterill make a significant trade?

[sabremike]

Do you all forget the multiple reports of Botterill offering UFA centers contracts and they all left money on the table to not player in Buffalo?

Would you want to play for a GM whose player moves have consistently been disastrous and allowed one of the worst NHL coaches of all time to keep his job for two seasons when any sane organization would've shown him the door after one (and a guy like Lou Lamorello probably would've fired him within two months)?

 

[sabrebuild]

Do you all forget the multiple reports of Botterill offering UFA centers contracts and they all left money on the table to not player in Buffalo?

Is it a wise defense to say your organization is so toxic your gm can't make signings unless it's a gross overpayment?

 

[Jame]

Is it a wise defense to say your organization is so toxic your gm can't make signings unless it's a gross overpayment?

the Sabres failures aren’t Jason Botterill’s fault, Jason Botterill failures are the Sabres fault.

lol

 

[brian_griffin]

Do you all forget the multiple reports of Botterill offering UFA centers contracts and they all left money on the table to not player in Buffalo?

Maybe they decided they couldn’t / wouldn’t play man-on-man D?

 

[Bendium]

The fact that you called him an offensive defenseman shows how wrong you are in your assesment.

Then how about you give your own assessment in response. How do you see him? What role do you see him having at the NHL level? Who would you pair him with and how would that translate to a playoff capable top 4 role?

 

[sabrebuild]

He really is not in the NHL. He is a great third pair situational defensemen depending on what your top two pairs look like and what you need out of your role defensemen. Hes a puck moving offensive d-man with solid positioning. He is too small and gets pushed around to much to be a consistent top 4 dman eating 20+ minutes a night.

He didn't seem overmatched last year when he was the only partner who helped Risto right the ship.

 

[sabrebuild]

Then how about you give your own assessment in response. How do you see him? What role do you see him having at the NHL level? Who would you pair him with and how would that translate to a playoff capable top 4 role?

Jumping in because I think Pilut could be a resl linchpin to this defense.

I see him as less of a big point producer at the nhl level and more of a transition facilitator. He won't score a lot of goals, but he regularly will be the key 3rd or 4th pass in the chain. Tobthe uninitiated he will absolutely get bull dozed once in a while in front of his net, but he won't be appreciated for his smarts and break ups of plays before they get to the net.

Speaking of players who struggle in front of their nets, despite size, enter Risto. They should partner like last year. Let Risto take rushes or reach for big hits and slappers from Pilut at the line. Let Pilut make the first pass from the dzone. Profit.

Dahlin Joker

25 minutes a game, as much prime ice with Eichel as possible.

Mcape and Montour until you can find someone better than mcape. More defensive minutes and let Montour be the skating transition first choice.

Each pair has a transition guy and a defensive focused guy. All pairs have at least one hitter. Respectable core. Get forwards.

 

[Shmuffalo]

Don't mean to thread jack this or anything but i agree unless the price tag is an overpayment i wouldn't move reinhart or risto, i just have a gut feeling that those 2 players have another gear when we get to the playoffs.

DO NOT THREAD JACK.

oh nevermind, I stopped reading.

Seriously though, I agree. I question Botts' trade acumen regarding big-name players. Reinhart is consistent, but not flashy, and leads people to glance over his incredible hockey sense. Botts knows this and isn't making a trade to make a splash in the kiddy pool. I do worry more about handling Ristolainen. Risto is a bit of an enigma, with respect to persistent poor analytics, and Botts is an analytical guy, but unless I'm having eye issues (knock on wood) he's one of our cornerstone defensemen, I have trouble trusting Botterill holding the reigns on this type of trade. I guess time will tell.

O'Reilly left an enormous blemish on his resume, and while the Skinner trade was stellar, we end up paying 1.5-2.5 above market value (which I get; Skinner had all the leverage). I just want confidence in Botterill's ability to tacitly negotiate. I like him, but he comes off nervous in nearly every press conference, whether bringing positive or negative news, or any speaking engagement for that matter. I hate being sceptic, but when under the gun, I hope he has a different personality. A strategy only works if you know how to execute, and game plan for hardball negotiations with confidence. Botts is in the big leagues, deservedly so, and I think he has staying power, but another blunder may end his tenure with the Sabres.

 

[Bendium]

Jumping in because I think Pilut could be a resl linchpin to this defense.

I see him as less of a big point producer at the nhl level and more of a transition facilitator. He won't score a lot of goals, but he regularly will be the key 3rd or 4th pass in the chain. Tobthe uninitiated he will absolutely get bull dozed once in a while in front of his net, but he won't be appreciated for his smarts and break ups of plays before they get to the net.

Speaking of players who struggle in front of their nets, despite size, enter Risto. They should partner like last year. Let Risto take rushes or reach for big hits and slappers from Pilut at the line. Let Pilut make the first pass from the dzone. Profit.

Dahlin Joker

25 minutes a game, as much prime ice with Eichel as possible.

Mcabe and Montour until you can find someone better than mcape. More defensive minutes and let Montour be the skating transition first choice.

Each pair has a transition guy and a defensive focused guy. All pairs have at least one hitter. Respectable core. Get forwards.

First, thank you for the well thought out answer. I agree with pretty much all of it, including the pairings you suggest which I had in my first post. I never said Pilut was not an NHL defenseman, just not a top four. He is fine as a third pairing role player, which is what I see in Risto. Neither have the right combination of size, skill and brains to be a top four in the playoffs.

I see Dahlin, Joker, and Montour as top 4 capable. McCabe fits the role needed opposite Montour but as you say, needs to be upgraded as he is also in my mind a third pairing D. Miller is also an excellent third pairing D and is the most well rounded of the group of them being capable of playing PP,PK and 5v5. I am good with either Miller or Risto being my third pairing Right Defense, so trade one with other assets to concentrate talent up...….for either a top six forward or top 4 Left Defense. My priority of holes to fill are 2C, 2LD, 3C, 2RW.

Lastly, reading your definition of Pilut makes me think we should have a discussion of what a modern day offensive defensemen is. This is a article discussing the topic with some of the top Dmen in the game.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...eing-called-offensive-what-does-it-even-mean/

My understanding is basically how Nate Schmidt summed it up:

"Vegas’s Nate Schmidt sees defense as being in the “transporting turnover business.” An offensive defenseman’s job is to transport the puck up the ice as fast as he can, giving his team more time and space to create. Forcing the opponent to turn over the puck is a way of being offensive. It’s “such an underlying part” of what it means to be an offensive threat, Schmidt said."

This is why I see Pilut as the offensive defensemen in a pairing. I actually think we have plenty of those guys and could use at least one lockdown guy to pair with them.

 

[joshjull]

Do you all forget the multiple reports of Botterill offering UFA centers contracts and they all left money on the table to not player in Buffalo?

What does that have to do with trading for players?

I don’t blame him for not signing guys in free agency. The player has a say in that. But there is no reason he couldn’t have targeted some forwards mention in trades.

 

[Icicle]

What does that have to do with trading for players?

I don’t blame him for not signing guys in free agency. The player has a say in that. But there is no reason he couldn’t have targeted some forwards mention in trades.

Only trade he missed out on was for Kadri..

 

[Rowley Birkin]

He was an ozone deployed and sheltered defensemen who had to be babysat by a defensive dman.

He only played an important role if all roles are important

This is all pointless... you've watched Miller play by now right? He's not good. His value is derived from a point shot that we haven't be able to unlock. Other than that, I guess it's nice that he skates well... even though his low hockey IQ reduces the value of that skill.

I saw a lot of him during Vegas' playoff runs - I adopted them as my 'playoff' team...

Of any team I've seen recently - under Gallant they played a system which works to their strengths & put players in a position where they have the best chance of succeeding. IE - good coaching & a clear sign of a coach working in unison with his GM.

A lot of players only succeed when they are put in the right situation. I'd go as far as saying this is the case for the majority of players.

Miller is probably going to get moved on in the summer. But if for example Montour is the guy moved in order to acquire a 2C - I could still see a potential opening for Miller on this team. Behind Risto & Joker, with a steady partner. Where he can be effective.

I'm sure that over the summer Krueger - after a full season in the job - will work closer with Botts to shape the roster exactly to his liking. So theses square peg / round hole situations won't happen.

 

[Icicle]

Wouldn't be in such haste to dish depth. We are losing a defenseman in the expansion draft

 

[TehDoak]

Do you all forget the multiple reports of Botterill offering UFA centers contracts and they all left money on the table to not player in Buffalo?

You are going to have to provide some examples of this.

 

[Bendium]

There seems to be a very wide range of opinions concerning Miller. I found a good article to share that was evaluating which of their defensemen could step up when Nate Schmidt got suspended 20 games in Vegas. Miller is discussed in the middle and I think it is an excellent description of his good and bad attributes.

How the Golden Knights can replace Nate Schmidt on the top pairing

Miller is more well rounded than most of our 4-9 defensemen. He is a great third pairing right defensemen. He should not be relied on to be a top two pairing guy long term, but can step up into the role as needed without a huge drop off. He has all the tools to be top four except his average hockey sense. He is a little slow to diagnose and predict plays which leaves him prone against top offensive lines. For me, him and Risto are both solid third pair right defense. Both are signed for the next three years becoming UFA's in 2022. Miller costs $3,875,000 vs Risto at $5,400,000. Both are a touch expensive for a third pairing guy, but especially Risto who is getting second pairing money. Montour will be an RFA and will need a long term contract if we are keeping him to be the long term second top 4 RD with Joker.

If we intend to resign Montour, then I am trading Risto or Miller plus whatever, to free up cap space and fill 2C, 2LD, 3C, of 2RW depending on what opportunities are actually available to trade.

For me, I would trade Risto because I think he brings me back a touch more in return, gives me a bigger cap relief, and is less versatile (which is a characteristic I want in my 3rd pair D.

 

[sabremike]

There seems to be a very wide range of opinions concerning Miller. I found a good article to share that was evaluating which of their defensemen could step up when Nate Schmidt got suspended 20 games in Vegas. Miller is discussed in the middle and I think it is an excellent description of his good and bad attributes.

How the Golden Knights can replace Nate Schmidt on the top pairing

Miller is more well rounded than most of our 4-9 defensemen. He is a great third pairing right defensemen. He should not be relied on to be a top two pairing guy long term, but can step up into the role as needed without a huge drop off. He has all the tools to be top four except his average hockey sense. He is a little slow to diagnose and predict plays which leaves him prone against top offensive lines. For me, him and Risto are both solid third pair right defense. Both are signed for the next three years becoming UFA's in 2022. Miller costs $3,875,000 vs Risto at $5,400,000. Both are a touch expensive for a third pairing guy, but especially Risto who is getting second pairing money. Montour will be an RFA and will need a long term contract if we are keeping him to be the long term second top 4 RD with Joker.

If we intend to resign Montour, and are stuck with Bogo due to his contract, then I am trading both Risto AND Miller to free up cap space and fill 2C, 2LD, 3C, of 2RW depending on what opportunities are actually available to trade.

If I am only trading Miller OR Risto. I trade Risto because I think he brings me back a touch more in return, gives me a bigger cap relief, and is less versatile (which is a characteristic I want in my 3rd pair D.

May be wrong but I believe Bogo is an expiring contract.

 

[Bendium]

May be wrong but I believe Bogo is an expiring contract.

You are correct. I will have to modify my thought there.

 

[HolyGhost]

I so not see Miller as being easily moved. 3.875 for 2 more season after this one

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I so not see Miller as being easily moved. 3.875 for 2 more season after this one

He's slightly overpaid but it's not exactly an albatross.

Further to what I wrote above... I feel myself moving toward wanting to move Montour if that's what it takes to get a 2C long term. I like the player, I liked the move to get him... Just think he could be the odd man out. Guess it depends on the contract he's willing to sign as well as the trade return. Long term at a reasonable cap hit? Then you keep him. But with how well Joker has fitted in plus Risto seemingly more settled... These 2 guys are my priorities on RHD.

If you move Montour & find the right partner (I do have some concerns on LHD) that opens up a role for Miller.

 

[Icicle]

RD still a premium

 

[joshjull]

May be wrong but I believe Bogo is an expiring contract.

You are correct.

 

[sabremike]

You are correct.

 

[sabrebuild]

Oh baby, this season is picking up

 

[Team Cozens]

Hope Botts is sitting in a box with Poile trying to poach a player or two. Nashville or Vegas are prime candidates these days.