Post-Game Talk: Ryan Poehling scores a hat trick and the shootout winner in his debut! Habs win 6-5 vs TML.

[Hope Of Glory]

Agree. But can be built without top 5 picks
Jets, bruins, sharks, flames. We've had better picks than them over the past decade.

All better teams than ours.

Jets had better picks than us I believe (off the top of my head, Laine, Scheifele, Ehlers, even Trouba was drafted early I think).

Bruins benefited from that great Kessel trade but also did a good job outside of that.

True for the Sharks. Wilson built an awesome team without tanking. But he's also one of the best GM in the league, something I don't believe Bergevin is. He never showed any of the trade acumen DW has in 7 years at least. No cup though.

Flames are an interesting mix. Some good trades, some luck (Gaudreau), some high draft picks (Monahan, Tkachuk). Also no cup and weren't even good before this year. They were going nowhere until the past summer's big trades. We'll have to see how they fare in the playoffs.

Meanwhile, Chicago (x3), Pittsburgh (x3), LA (x2) and Caps all won cups and had a lenghty rebuild. I don't think it's impossible to win a cup without rebuilding but odds are certainly not on that side. Rebuilding/tanking is definitely not only about drafting. It's only the start, you got to be able to make big moves too (Hossa, Richards/Carter, Oshie + drafting Kuzy outside the top 20).

In any case, you need a great GM. If you don't tank, you need an even better one. I have absolutely 0 confidence in Bergevin being that guy, sadly. Hopefully he proves me wrong but 7 years is a long time and he hasn't done anything that would ease my doubts.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

There would be a financial hit. It depends on your definition of accept....

We were competitive this year in missing the playoffs. Had we been the same as last year a second year in a row, there would be financial consequences.

Maybe - maybe - temporarily but as you can see as soon as we become even a bubble team, interest is right there.

And btw, some Leaf fans argued for years that the fanbase would never tolerate a rebuild. They went through the same thing we're going through now... years of bad/medicore teams. The fans never went anywhere. We are no different - no matter how much we'd like to believe we are.

Leaf fans accepted their rebuild just fine so would we. For Pete's sake, we're missing the playoffs anyway and we're all still here.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Just like the leafs,oilers,sabres....

Yep, thats retooling/resetting for ya...

 

[OnTheRun]

Agree. But can be built without top 5 picks
Jets, bruins, sharks, flames. We've had better picks than them over the past decade.

All better teams than ours.

Timing matter, both the Jets and Flames got high yield picks in quick succession.

Habs: 3 -> 25 -> 26 -> 26 -> 9 -> 25 -> 3
Jets: 7 -> 9 -> 13 -> 9 -> 17 -> 2 -> 24 -> N/A
Flames: 13 -> 21 -> 6 -> 4 -> N/A -> 6 -> 16 -> N/A

Getting all those 25+ picks without being a contender didn't help one bit here.

 

[Runner77]

Maple Leafs vs. Canadiens - Box Score - April 6, 2019 - ESPN

Poehling 4 face off wins 3 losses, good to get a taste

Danault a whopping 23 face off wins 10 losses last night holy jumpin...

What will Poehling do for an encore? What will he do on his next game, next year? Imagine the expectations, lol.

 

[HabsDood]

What will Poehling do for an encore? What will he do on his next game, next year? Imagine the expectations, lol.

I think he's going to give birth and.. BREASTFEED

 

[FormerLurker]

Maybe - maybe - temporarily but as you can see as soon as we become even a bubble team, interest is right there.

And btw, some Leaf fans argued for years that the fanbase would never tolerate a rebuild. They went through the same thing we're going through now... years of bad/medicore teams. The fans never went anywhere. We are no different - no matter how much we'd like to believe we are.

Leaf fans accepted their rebuild just fine so would we. For Pete's sake, we're missing the playoffs anyway and we're all still here.

The Leafs missed the playoffs 10 years out of 11, not really even close to what we're going through now. They haven't won a playoff round in 15 years, and that's unlikely to change this year.

Furthermore, the Leafs rebuild had them finish just 4 points ahead of the non-rebuilding Habs this year. Plus we have a better prospect pipeline than they do, and cap space. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Habs finish ahead of the Leafs next year, yet you and others point to the Leafs as a model of how to build a team for success, and want to trade away some of our best players.

 

[sandysan]

I'm not lamenting anything. Not sure how you got that from what I wrote. I'm telling it like it is. In the real world the odds of a Cup are very different than the 1/31 you claimed, because parity is a fairy tale.

How is parity a fairy tale? Because you say so?
The cap attempts to ensure that teams with money cannot buy the cup.


Whoa worst thing ever. And year by year sure not every team has a chance, but over time it's a lot more even than any of the other pro sports. We see 1-8 upsets and 2-7 upsets. Without parity, how do you explain those?

 

[ECWHSWI]

The Leafs missed the playoffs 10 years out of 11, not really even close to what we're going through now. They haven't won a playoff round in 15 years, and that's unlikely to change this year.

Furthermore, the Leafs rebuild had them finish just 4 points ahead of the non-rebuilding Habs this year. Plus we have a better prospect pipeline than they do, and cap space. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Habs finish ahead of the Leafs next year, yet you and others point to the Leafs as a model of how to build a team for success, and want to trade away some of our best players.

so, you expect guys like Tatar, Danault, Petry, Gallagher and co to ALL improve on their career year ?

 

[sandysan]

They tanked and got Ovechkin. It’s a pretty hard fact to distort. You like facts huh ? It doesnt un-become tanking when it doesnt fit your liking.

Long long time ago
I can still remember how that sucky team used to male me smile
And I new if we had our chance
This sucking would get us to the dance ( a decade later)
So long as we got to suck for a while.

So the plan is to either suck hard forever, OR to plan the suck to find a generational talent like ovechkin and then suck harder than everybody else to marginally increase the chances our ball is pulled last. And if THAT doesn't work, keep doing it till it does. If it takes 10 or 15 years, every good thing in that timeperiod will be becuase of our good fortunes, and nothing else.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

" fire MB fast, fire coach fast, fire everyone, all for NOT trading away assets to help the team TODAY, sell anything to make the playoffs, all hab assets are total BUSTS so they are worthless" where are all those " fire everyone " posters now? where are all those MB backstabbers today? every time MB wanted to make a trade everyone wanted RP or Suzuki, MB said NO and for this a lot of posters DEMANDED MB be fired on the spot. MTL is the best team NOT in to playoffs, MTL sets record for best point turn around
in 40 years but NO, MB must be fired. Haters just want to hate, perhaps frustrated in their own lives they vent their hatred as posters , hiding behind the keyboard. MB has to work in the real world of hockey, everyone wants to steal your assets, like vultures watching the desperate make BIG mistakes. Sometimes the best trade is the one YOU DON'T MAKE. It very sad that after reading all the posts in here no one is defending MB still. Haters just got the continue hating no matter what.

Right here.

Bergevin has been with this team for 7 years. In those 7 years his AHL team has made the playoffs ONCE.

We have had a fairly good cupboard only for almost everything in there to go rotten.

Remember how awesome our d qaz going to be with Tinordi, Beaulieu, Pateryn and then later Dietz and Ellis. Dietz is one of the better offense dmen in the KHL and might make it back to the NHL soon, but as you can tell those players didn't work out. Beaulieu on possibly his last stint in the NHL and Pateryn as a number 5, or 6 guy with the Wild.

Remember how awesome our forward group was with Collberg, Hudon, De La Rose, Lehkonen, Andrighetto and McCarron ?

Collberg playing well in Wjrs. De la Rose and Lehkonen playing well. Ghetto doing really well in the A. McCarron playing really well in the pre season games. Hudon looking like an absolute steal.

De La Rose and Andrighetto are close to being out of the league. Lehkonen started off promising, but has to be slipping to the same category.

What about when we drafted Scherbak ? He got Grant's seal of approval and everything, though I don't think anyone cares about that. AHL for him.

Poehling had an absolutely amazing game. A game for the ages. He looked so cool and calm out there.

However, maybe we wait and see how things go next year?

You and Bergevin can't honestly expect all of our prospects to develop into quality NHLers. This is where the team needs to determine which ones won't, or won't develop into studs and use them with their decent value in a package to get a quality, long-term player now. Bergevin needs to pick a direction.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Long long time ago
I can still remember how that sucky team used to male me smile
And I new if we had our chance
This sucking would get us to the dance ( a decade later)
So long as we got to suck for a while.

So the plan is to either suck hard forever, OR to plan the suck to find a generational talent like ovechkin and then suck harder than everybody else to marginally increase the chances our ball is pulled last. And if THAT doesn't work, keep doing it till it does. If it takes 10 or 15 years, every good thing in that timeperiod will be becuase of our good fortunes, and nothing else.

you have yet to show how other (than tanking) strategies works BETTER you know...

and by working better I obviously mean getting to the cup faster.

 

[Stive Morgan]

Not that I have a strong opinion on way or the other but I'm surprised players are even allowed to discuss politics on social media. You'd figure most owners/management would have a rule against it it, or even one in the CBA.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Toronto and Tampa definitely did a rebuild. Their core (Stamkos, Hedman/Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Rielly) are mostly their own top 10 picks. They also made some other solide moves (Tavares, solid drafting in later rounds for Tampa like Kuch) which are essential for any rebuilding thing. It starts with high draft picks but there's much more to a good tank.

We've been ''retooling'' for the past 26 years and haven't even got close to the cup. Enough with hoping we get lucky, we got to put ourselves in a position to be lucky. 26 years of not choosing a direction made go nowhere. Of course.

Toronto and Tampa never did a full rebuild, especially Toronto. Toronto already had Kadri, JVR, Rielly, Hyman, Gardiner, Bozak and a few other pieces when they started their retool and kept these pieces until they had no more cap room to resign them.

People here want to strip down everything from Price to Weber, Petry and hope that a few high first will magically take us back to la la land. The teams that stripped down everything are mentioned above and they have been stuck in mediocrity forever.

We haven’t been retooling for 26 years. We had some good and some bad years. The only difference now is A) We have depth everywhere but LHD and B) Our prospects are finally progressing at light speed.

Again, I’m not saying we should go all in. I’m saying it would be dumb to sell assets when we have cap space, talent and depth at both the NHL and prospect level.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The Leafs missed the playoffs 10 years out of 11, not really even close to what we're going through now. They haven't won a playoff round in 15 years, and that's unlikely to change this year.

Furthermore, the Leafs rebuild had them finish just 4 points ahead of the non-rebuilding Habs this year. Plus we have a better prospect pipeline than they do, and cap space. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Habs finish ahead of the Leafs next year, yet you and others point to the Leafs as a model of how to build a team for success, and want to trade away some of our best players.

If you’re going to jump into a conversation you should understand what is being said.

This isn’t about arguing that the Leafs are successful, it’s if Montreal will tolerate losing teams and it’s clear that they will. We’ve done it for over twenty years now.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

If we get the first overall (aka Kakko).
Karlsson could sign here

 

[NotProkofievian]

Toronto and Tampa never did a full rebuild, especially Toronto. Toronto already had Kadri, JVR, Rielly, Hyman, Gardiner, Bozak and a few other pieces when they started their retool and kept these pieces until they had no more cap room to resign them.

People here want to strip down everything from Price to Weber, Petry and hope that a few high first will magically take us back to la la land. The teams that stripped down everything are mentioned above and they have been stuck in mediocrity forever.

We haven’t been retooling for 26 years. We had some good and some bad years. The only difference now is A) We have depth everywhere but LHD and B) Our prospects are finally progressing at light speed.

Again, I’m not saying we should go all in. I’m saying it would be dumb to sell assets when we have cap space, talent and depth at both the NHL and prospect level.

There is a 12 year age difference between Ryan Poehling and Carey Price. There is a 15 year age difference between Shea Weber and Jesperi Kotkaniemi. Simply put, these guys aren't going to get many chances together in their primes, not least because Weber's prime is already over. And when the chips were down this year, in direct confrontation with a team with whom we were battling for the last wildcard spot, our team folded like a cheap suit.

A decision has to be made. Hold on to these overripe assets until they're worth nothing, and insodoing provide no help to our future, promising corps of players. Or get something for them.

Why not the former?

 

[FrankMTL]

Not that I have a strong opinion on way or the other but I'm surprised players are even allowed to discuss politics on social media. You'd figure most owners/management would have a rule against it it, or even one in the CBA.

Ya I agree. The Habs probably have somebody who advises the players what to or what not to post on Social Media. I wouldn’t be surprised if his twitter account is cleaned up within the next few months.

 

[FormerLurker]

so, you expect guys like Tatar, Danault, Petry, Gallagher and co to ALL improve on their career year ?

No I don't. But I do expect more of our cap space to be effectively used, to have a real fourth line for the full season, to have better back up goaltending, and for our younger players to contribute more, especially Kotkaniemi.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Timing matter, both the Jets and Flames got high yield picks in quick succession.

Habs: 3 -> 25 -> 26 -> 26 -> 9 -> 25 -> 3
Jets: 7 -> 9 -> 13 -> 9 -> 17 -> 2 -> 24 -> N/A
Flames: 13 -> 21 -> 6 -> 4 -> N/A -> 6 -> 16 -> N/A

Getting all those 25+ picks without being a contender didn't help one bit here.

Just to put some names to the picks Going back to 2011,
MTL Beaulieu (17) Galchenyuk (3) McCarron (25) Sherbak (26) Juulsen (26), Sergachev (9), Poehling (25), Kotka (3)
WPG Scheifele (7) Trouba (9), Morrissey (13), Ehlers (9), Connor (17), Laine (2)/Stanley (18), Vesalainen (24; they actually were slated for the 13 pick where Suzuki was picked),
CGY Baertschi (13, Johnny hockey @ 104), Jankowski (21), Monahan (6), Bennett (4) (NA - Hamilton trade), Tkachuk (6), Valimaki (16), (NA, Hamonic trade)

 

[Perrah]

No I don't. But I do expect more of our cap space to be effectively used, to have a real fourth line for the full season, to have better back up goaltending, and for our younger players to contribute more, especially Kotkaniemi.

Cant make UFA's sign. Although improvement would be having some dialogue with free agents that people actually want this year.

For goalies with 30 games or less Niemi was tied for 11th in wins. While he was a sack of shit numbers wise, there is no guarantee a goalie comes in and gets a similar percentage of points, even if they play better. They will be expected to play probably 5-10 more games. Then that goalie needs to play better than Price did in those games to be an appreciable increase.

Then you look at the young guys contributing more but that wont happen in a vacuum, it will be at the expense of someone who had a career year this year. Next year will be a defining year, just left to be seen if it is good or bad.

 

[ECWHSWI]

No I don't. But I do expect more of our cap space to be effectively used, to have a real fourth line for the full season, to have better back up goaltending, and for our younger players to contribute more, especially Kotkaniemi.

a reall 4th line... my my...

Habs are going to be scary!!!

 

[Lshap]

There is a 12 year age difference between Ryan Poehling and Carey Price. There is a 15 year age difference between Shea Weber and Jesperi Kotkaniemi. Simply put, these guys aren't going to get many chances together in their primes, not least because Weber's prime is already over. And when the chips were down this year, in direct confrontation with a team with whom we were battling for the last wildcard spot, our team folded like a cheap suit.

A decision has to be made. Hold on to these overripe assets until they're worth nothing, and insodoing provide no help to our future, promising corps of players. Or get something for them.

Why not the former?

I agree in theory. In practice, shopping Price and Weber may cost us more than it helps us. Price is still in his prime and could remain excellent to solid for another five years. Whatever we could get back for him wouldn't compensate for the loss of a top goalie, especially since we have no one close to taking his place.

I'd have no issue trading Weber, but I doubt it happens for a number of reasons, some of them pretty good reasons. First of all, there's value in mentoring young defensemen, which is something he's apparently good at. He's held in high esteem, he makes other dmen better -- that's what I hear and can only trust it's true. Second, Weber's cap hit and reduced speed makes him a tougher sell. Yeah, a few teams would jump at the chance to add his experience, but I doubt they'd jump high enough to give us a top draft pick or prospect. Whatever we'd get back wouldn't be worth what we traded away. Third reason is that Weber remains productive. In fact, if you believe his sudden drop in mobility was injury-related, then he could be healthier and smoother next season. Let's hope so. It's hard to argue with the sharp divide in Price's numbers before and after Weber's return.

Luckily, aside from Price and Weber, the rest of our roster is prime or younger. I have no issue dangling any of our older assets for top picks in the next two drafts. That would mean our window opens around 2022, which is fine, provided Bergevin builds according to that timeline.

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[ottawa]

Going back to Poehling... I hope fans do not get on the bandwagon right away. It is a long process to become an NHLer. Let the kid grow up without too much pressure.

He did this to himself. If he doesn't score ~50 next year then I'm afraid he's entering bust territory